Tuesday, June 2, 2026

Leo XIV contra the new Babel: Reflections on the pope’s landmark encyclical

Last week, Pope Leo XIV issued Magnifica Humanitas, the first encyclical of his pontificate.  It has received much attention, both positive and negative and in both Catholic and secular media.  Much of the commentary so far strikes me as superficial.  To judge from social media, you’d think the document is primarily devoted to artificial intelligence, with some irrelevant comments about slavery and just war theory arbitrarily tacked on.  You’d also think those comments mark a rupture with traditional Catholic teaching.  None of this is true.  There is no break with traditional teaching.  While artificial intelligence (or AI) gets significant attention, the encyclical is actually devoted to a much larger theme, of which AI is only a part.  And the remarks on slavery and just war theory are not arbitrary, but fit in naturally with this larger theme.  Magnifica Humanitas is in fact a major contribution to the tradition of Catholic social teaching inaugurated by the pope’s namesake Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum.  It is rich in insights, and gives Catholics a sound framework for dealing with the “new things” of our times, just as Rerum Novarum did for Catholics of the late nineteenth century and beyond.

Catholic social teaching

As the encyclical itself makes clear, it cannot properly be understood apart from that larger magisterial context.  So let me begin with some remarks about that.  By the time of Leo XIII, the economic order of the Western world had been radically transformed by modern industry and capitalism.  This new order of things yielded certain benefits, such as unprecedented technological advances and more efficient modes of production.  It also generated certain problems, such as economic instability for the working class and the concentration of vast power in private hands.  These outcomes were in part a result of natural economic processes, but also largely a reflection of novel and contingent cultural conditions and legal structures.  How to preserve the advantages of this new order of things while remedying its downside was a matter of great controversy.  At one extreme were those favoring a laissez-faire policy, according to which whatever outcomes were generated by this system were optimal and ought not to be interfered with by political authorities.  At the other extreme were those who favored a socialist model on which economic planning and ownership of the basic means of production ought to be put in the hands of the state.

Leo XIII unambiguously condemned both of these extreme views, and set out the basic moral principles that ought to guide Catholics in constructing a sober middle ground position.  These included a vigorous defense of the institution of private property against its socialist critics, and an equally vigorous defense, against partisans of laissez-faire, of the thesis that a market wage is not necessarily a just wage.  Later popes made crucial further contributions, sometimes in light of major historical developments.  This was true of what are arguably the two greatest social encyclicals after Rerum Novarum, namely Pope Pius XI’s Quadragesimo Anno (issued during the Great Depression) and Pope St. John Paul II’s Centesimus Annus (which appeared as the Soviet Union was in the process of collapsing). 

The popes have consistently resisted taking any simplistic ideological position on the modern capitalist economic order, refusing either to denounce it wholesale or to judge all of its features to be acceptable or at any rate somehow natural and inevitable.  For example, Pius XI held, on the one hand, that “this system is not to be condemned in itself… surely it is not of its own nature vicious... [and it has] its advantages.”  But on the other hand, he noted that it has “disadvantages and vices” as well, and very grave ones at the time he was writing:

Not only is wealth concentrated in our times but an immense power and despotic economic dictatorship is consolidated in the hands of a few, who often are not owners but only the trustees and managing directors of invested funds which they administer according to their own arbitrary will and pleasure.  This dictatorship is being most forcibly exercised by those who, since they hold the money and completely control it, control credit also and rule the lending of money.  Hence they regulate the flow, so to speak, of the life-blood whereby the entire economic system lives, and have so firmly in their grasp the soul, as it were, of economic life that no one can breathe against their will.  This concentration of power and might, the characteristic mark, as it were, of contemporary economic life, is the fruit that the unlimited freedom of struggle among competitors has of its own nature produced, and which lets only the strongest survive; and this is often the same as saying, those who fight the most violently, those who give least heed to their conscience.

Similarly, John Paul II insisted that the Church cannot treat the issue of whether to embrace capitalism as a simple Yes or No question:

Can it perhaps be said that, after the failure of Communism, capitalism is the victorious social system, and that capitalism should be the goal of the countries now making efforts to rebuild their economy and society?... The answer is obviously complex.  If by “capitalism” is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility for the means of production, as well as free human creativity in the economic sector, then the answer is certainly in the affirmative… But if by “capitalism” is meant a system in which freedom in the economic sector is not circumscribed within a strong juridical framework which places it at the service of human freedom in its totality, and which sees it as a particular aspect of that freedom, the core of which is ethical and religious, then the reply is certainly negative.

The tradition of Catholic social teaching that the popes hammered out insists, against the excessive individualism that typically informs the theory and practice of capitalism, that man is a social animal.  It also insists – against the collectivism and excessive internationalism that typically inform socialism – that it is the family in which our social nature is most immediately manifest, and that nations and the patriotism they inspire are a natural and healthy extension of the group loyalties we first learn in the family.  We are neither atomized individuals nor mere cells in a single vast blob.  On the one hand, we need, and bear obligations to, social orders larger than ourselves – first and foremost to family, then to country, and then to the family of nations that comprises mankind as a whole.  These needs and obligations are enshrined in the principle of solidarity.  On the other hand, these larger social orders should interfere with the lower level orders that make them up only when strictly necessary in order to assist them in carrying out their own functions, and otherwise ought to leave them free to manage their own affairs.  This is the principle of subsidiarity.  (I discuss the principles of subsidiarity, solidarity, and the family and nation in more depth in this article from a few years ago.)

Naturally, there’s a lot more to Catholic social teaching, but those are some key principles, as are the aforementioned principles of private property and the just wage.  And they suffice to make it clear that the Church’s teaching cannot be classified as either “right-wing” or “left-wing,” as those terms are usually understood.  To be sure, some might suppose that the principles of subsidiarity and private property are “right-wing” aspects of the Church’s teaching.  But the Church doesn’t necessarily understand these principles the way that contemporary conservatives and libertarians would.  Others might suppose that the principles of solidarity and the just wage are “left-wing” aspects of Catholic teaching.  But the Church also doesn’t necessarily understand these principles the way that contemporary egalitarian liberals and socialists would.

In fact, it is a serious mistake to start with the usual modern political categories, and then try to understand Catholic social teaching in light of them.  Rather, a Catholic should start by understanding the Church’s social teaching on its own terms, and then evaluate various familiar political categories and positions in light of that teaching.  They will find that while contemporary politicians, political parties, and political philosophies often express ideas that in some respects sound like what the Church teaches, they often understand these ideas differently than the way the Church does.  And of course, they also often say other things that conflict with what the Church teaches.  In any event, the Church’s teaching is not some incoherent mish-mash of right-wing and left-wing elements.  It is a coherent whole, hammered out over centuries and with deep roots in classical philosophy and scripture.  It is contemporary right- and left-wing positions that are typically incoherent, since they take only certain aspects of the tradition and gravely distort them by neglecting other, balancing aspects in light of which the Church says they must be understood.

The new Babel

Now, what Pope Leo XIV is doing in Magnifica Humanitas is analogous to what Leo XIII did in Rerum Novarum.  He is addressing another major transformation of the economic structure of the modern world – namely the “Information Age” revolution brought about by computers, the internet, artificial intelligence, social media, smartphones, and the like.  Like the rise of modern industry and capitalism, this transformation has yielded both novel benefits and grave new problems.  As in that earlier revolution, the economic order to which “new things” have given rise is not vicious in itself, but its current character is also not something to which we need or should acquiesce as optimal or inevitable.  For like the earlier revolution, the current one is in part a result of contingent technological, cultural, legal, and political factors that are within our power to shape.  And it is the principles of Catholic social teaching that ought to guide us in shaping them.  That is the basic message of the pope’s encyclical.

Among the dangers of this new order, Leo cites: a narrow technocratic mentality that concentrates power in the hands of those with expertise in Information Age technologies, and is too quick to frame problems in a way susceptible of resolution through those technologies; an excessive emphasis on intelligence, which devalues ordinary labor and the majority of human beings who earn their livelihood through it; the elimination of jobs on which such people depend, often without avenues for retraining them; manipulation of the flow of information to serve private interests rather than the common good; the easy spread of false narratives, the prevalence of instant uninformed and emotional reactions to current events, and social media’s general tendency to discourage rational discourse; AI algorithms’ tendency to yield the illusion of objectivity while in fact reflecting the biases of their designers; the spread of pornography, the addictiveness of social media in general, and the way it molds the character of children in ways parents have too little control over; the manipulation made possible by the monitoring of people’s online purchases and viewing habits; and the exploitation of cheap labor in the maintenance of the material conditions of the whole system.

Above all, Leo warns of the ideology of transhumanism that informs the thinking of many of the leaders of this new economic order.  Human nature is taken to be malleable, and the distinction between human beings and mere machines is blurred.  Limitations are seen, not as natural concomitants of ordinary human life, but evils to be overcome.  Suffering is regarded as something to be eradicated entirely, rather than as an inevitable part of the human condition, the endurance of which perfects us morally and spiritually.  Salvation comes to be seen as something that might be achieved through human ingenuity rather than the grace of God. 

To the extent that these evils and the values they reflect dominate the new Information Age, the result, Pope Leo says, can be thought of as a new “Tower of Babel,” or what St. Augustine called the “City of Man” – a social order grounded in human pride and the libido dominandi of the powerful, rather than a city oriented to God and the common good of all human beings.  (The pope does not cite Paul Kingsnorth, but readers familiar with his work will see in Leo’s description of the new Babel a parallel to what Kingsnorth calls “the Machine.”)

By contrast, to inform the new economic order with the principles of Catholic social teaching is to commit to a project Pope Leo compares to Nehemiah’s rebuilding of Jerusalem, and to what Augustine called the City of God.  It puts God rather than man at the center of the social order, and puts the common good ahead of the private interests of the powerful.  At the same time, it represents an authentic “transhumanism,” which, says Leo, has already been offered by Christianity.  This true transhumanism remedies our limitations and raises us up to something higher, but by grace rather than by our own efforts.  At the same time, it recognizes, respects, and builds on human nature rather than erasing it.  It is modeled by Christ, who embraced the suffering and limitations of the human condition and redeemed them.

Some critics have complained that the pope does not offer a defense of the claims he makes about artificial intelligence, as when he writes:

So-called artificial intelligences do not undergo experiences, do not possess a body, do not feel joy or pain, do not mature through relationships and do not know from within what love, work, friendship or responsibility mean.  Nor do they have a moral conscience, since they do not judge good and evil, grasp the ultimate meaning of situations, or bear responsibility for consequences.  They may imitate language, behavior and analytical skills, or even simulate empathy and understanding, but they do not understand what they produce, for they lack the affective, relational and spiritual perspective through which human beings grow in wisdom.  Even when these tools are described as capable of “learning,” their way of doing so is different from that of a human person. (99)

But again, the encyclical is not about artificial intelligence alone, but rather about the broader Information Age economic and social order of which AI is a part.  Furthermore, its aim is not to rehearse the arguments Catholic and other thinkers would give against the claim that AI programs are genuinely intelligent.  There is already a large literature on those arguments.  (See my book Immortal Souls: A Treatise on Human Nature for a detailed critique of the thesis that AI amounts to genuine intelligence.)  The pope’s point is rather to make clear how those who agree with this assessment of AI ought to approach the broader social and economic questions it raises.  Just as Leo XIII set out general moral principles to guide the reform of the economic order of the late nineteenth century – but without pretending to address all the various specific technical economic questions such reform raises – so too is Leo XIV setting out general moral principles to guide the reform of the economic order of the Information Age, without pretending to address all the technical specifics.

Babel at war

It is in light of these main themes of Magnifica Humanitas that we have to understand what it says about issues that may at first seem unconnected, such as war and slavery.  As to war, let’s look first at the pope’s most controversial remark, and then come back to the question of why the topic is dealt with in the encyclical at all.  Leo states that “the ‘just war’ theory… is now outdated” (192).  Some have read this as an expression of pacifism, which is contrary to the teaching of the Catechism, and of tradition, that war can be justifiable when fought for ends such as self-defense. 

But that is clearly not what the pope means.  The encyclical goes on to speak of “the principle that armed force should be used only as a last resort in cases of legitimate self-defense” (197).  It notes that “the Catechism of the Catholic Church speaks of the possibility of legitimate defense by means of military force, which involves demonstrating that certain ‘rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy’ have been met” (footnote 182).  And the complete sentence in which the pope’s controversial words appear reads: “Today, more than ever, without prejudice to the right to self-defense in the strictest sense, it is important to reaffirm that the ‘just war’ theory, which has all too often been used to justify any kind of war, is now outdated” (192).

So, the pope explicitly acknowledges that military action can be justified when carried out in self-defense if it meets certain conditions, such as being a last resort.  And that is the paradigm case of military action that meets the criteria of just war theory.  Indeed, the Catechism itself, which the pope cites, speaks of such “legitimate defense by military force” as an application of “the ‘just war’ doctrine” (2309).  Hence, the pope’s own words logically entail that he is reaffirming what the Catechism refers to by that label, whether or not he uses that label himself.  The substance of what he says is perfectly consistent with the Catechism.

So why does the pope speak of just war theory as “out of date”?  His meaning is clear from the larger context.  Pope Leo notes that “it is easy to fall into an overly broad interpretation of this potential right [of self-defense].  In this way, some would also wrongly justify even ‘preventive’ attacks or acts of war that can hardly avoid entailing evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated” (footnote 182).  If one were to accept such a loose interpretation of just war criteria, it would follow that “in recent decades, every single war has been ostensibly ‘justified’” (ibid.), which would be absurd.  Such loose interpretations have become so commonplace that we are now seeing a “revival of war as an instrument of international politics” (190), indeed its “normalization” as “as a natural extension of politics” (193). 

Obviously, what the pope has in mind are glib applications of traditional just war criteria, such as the assumption that as long as one can identify some good aim for which military action might be taken, then the “just cause” condition has been met.  As I explained in an earlier article, that is not how the just cause condition works.  It is not sufficient to have an aim that is morally good in the abstract.  It must be morally good all things considered and given the actual concrete circumstances under which the war would be fought.  For example, suppose some war is fought in the name of liberating a people from an unjust government.  Considered just by itself, that aim can be just.  But suppose that, given the actual concrete circumstances, such a war would be highly likely to result in hundreds of thousands of civilian casualties, a civil war that could leave the country in chaos for a generation, a catastrophic refugee crisis, and so on.  Then the war would not be justifiable, because it would yield evils even worse than those the war was supposed to be remedying.

Pope Leo’s chief concern appears to be the “disastrous consequences for civilian populations” of wars fought in the name of ostensibly good causes (192).  He brings the issue up repeatedly in Magnifica Humanitas.  For example, he notes that “the past sixty years have been marked by conflicts of astonishing brutality, often affecting civilian populations on a massive scale, leading to the death of innocent victims, mass displacement, social destabilization and long-lasting wounds” (189).  He laments that “the principle of proportionality in responding to aggression, the protection of access to water, food and essential goods, and respect for the lives of civilians, especially children, [have] come to be regarded as naïve relics of the past” (203).  He insists on a “non-negotiable requirement... [to] ensure robust protection for civilians and the infrastructures necessary for their survival” (200).  He states that “when we witness the bombing of civilians, attacks on hospitals, schools or vital infrastructure, and violence that affects children, we are confronted with scandals that wound humanity itself.  For this reason, we cannot limit ourselves to the level of abstract analysis” (216).

It is clear, then, that what the pope considers “outdated” is not the principles of just war doctrine themselves, but rather any application of those principles that would permit military action for purposes other than defense in the strictest sense – and in particular, any application of them that “normalizes” war as one “instrument of international politics” alongside the others.  And the reason has to do with the imperative to protect civilian populations from the brutal side effects of war.

This is not a novel position, and indeed is not a “liberal” position either.  On the contrary, it reflects a point of view that became increasingly common among even the most traditionalist voices within the Church beginning in the middle of the twentieth century.  In in his 1948 Christmas message, Pope Pius XII stated that “the theory of war as an apt and proportionate means of solving international conflicts is now out of date.”  While no pacifist, Pius also held that resorting to military action even in self-defense could be justified only if it would not give rise to even greater evils than those being remedied.  In an address of October 19, 1953, he stated: “The fact that one has to defend oneself against injustice of some sort is not enough to justify using the violent methods of war.  When the harm caused by the latter are out of proportion to the harm caused by the injustice, one may have a duty to submit to that injustice” (quoted in Romano Amerio, Iota Unum, p. 450).

Cardinal Alfredo Ottaviani, who became a hero to traditionalists for his resistance to liberal doctrinal reforms during the era of Vatican II, argued in 1949 that given the grave risks posed to civilian populations:

Modern wars can never fulfil those conditions which… govern – theoretically – a just and lawful war.  Moreover, no conceivable cause could ever be sufficient justification for the evils, the slaughter, the destruction, the moral and religious upheavals which war today entails.  In practice, then, a declaration of war will never be justifiable.  A defensive war even should never be undertaken unless a legitimate authority, with whom the decision rests, shall have both certainty of success and very solid proofs that the good accruing to the nation from the war will more than outweigh the untold evils which it will bring on the nation itself, and on the world in general.

The eminent Catholic traditionalist philosopher Romano Amerio, while sharply criticizing liberal tendencies in the Church on topics such as eternal damnation, capital punishment, and the like, argued in his classic 1985 book Iota Unum: A Study of Changes in the Catholic Church in the XXth Century that it would be a mistake to see the move toward a more restrictive interpretation of just war criteria as part of this liberalizing trend.  On the contrary, “the change that has occurred in the understanding of war is in fact a coherent development” (p. 441).  It simply reflects the Christian imperative to protect the innocent, whose lives are too often lost in enormous numbers in modern wars even when they are not directly targeted.

In line with this development, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger – who later became Pope Benedict XVI and famously defended a “hermeneutic of continuity” with the Church’s traditional teaching – stated in 2003 that “given the new weapons that make possible destructions that go beyond the combatant groups, today we should be asking ourselves if it is still licit to admit the very existence of a ‘just war’.”  Pope Leo’s remarks on the subject simply reflect this longstanding development in orthodox Catholic moral theology.  Whatever one thinks of his teaching, he is not saying anything new, or liberal, or heterodox.

But why does Pope Leo raise this issue in Magnifica Humanitas in the first place?  In part because the new technological revolution is affecting the way war is waged and justified today.  For example, a danger of AI-based weapons systems is that they can remove immediate decision-making from human control.  But the killing of human beings, even in war, is too momentous a matter to be left to machines.  Only human beings, guided by the relevant moral principles, should ever make such decisions.  The pope also warns of the tendency of social media algorithms to promote conflict, snap judgments, false narratives, and emotional reactions that harden people into Manichean patterns of thinking.  These can in turn be exploited by governments in order to rationalize war and sell it to the public.

The deeper issue, though, appears to be that treating war as if it were simply another means by which political interests may be advanced is yet another example of the technocratic mentality of the new Babel, which subordinates moral considerations to the pragmatic judgments of experts.  Pope Leo notes that, since the end of the Cold War, two competing mentalities have informed leaders in the international arena: on the one hand a globalism whose approach is “predominantly economic” and exhibits an “almost blind faith” in markets, yielding too thin a basis for stable international order; and on the other hand an “identity-based and nationalistic” reaction to this globalism, committed to an “us or them” and “might makes right” jingoism (201-202).  But this is a false choice, and peace between nations requires rejecting both views.  Here too the pope is simply following longstanding Catholic thinking.  As I have discussed elsewhere (briefly here and at greater length here), the Catholic tradition affirms (against globalism) that nations and special attachment to one’s own nation are natural and salutary aspects of the human condition, but also (against jingoism) that the relationship between nations ought to be one of solidarity and cooperation rather than zero-sum competition and domination.

Slavery in Babel

The topic of slavery might at first seem tangential or even irrelevant in an encyclical devoted to the new economy of the Information Age.  But once you read the paragraph in which Leo introduces it, its relevance is obvious:

This distorted view of the human person is reflected today in various forms of servitude directly linked to the digital economy.  Nothing in the world of AI is immaterial or magical.  Every seemingly immediate and flawless response is the result of a long chain of mediation, involving vast networks of natural resources, energy infrastructure and, above all, people.  A significant part of the digital economy’s functioning relies on the silent work of millions of people engaged in essential yet largely unseen activities, such as data labeling, model training and content moderation, often involving disturbing material.  In many cases, these workers are young people, predominantly women, working under demanding conditions for minimal wages.  Added to this invisible labor is the even harsher work of extracting the resources required for the production of the devices and microprocessors on which AI depends.  In some regions of the world, children and adolescents work in dangerous conditions, crushing the materials from which rare earth elements are extracted.  The bodies of these people are scarred, injured and worn down so that computational flow may continue uninterruptedly.  Furthermore, criminal networks use online platforms, messaging systems, anonymous payment methods and profiling techniques in order to recruit, control and transport victims of trafficking – very often minors – reducing men and women to “data” to be tracked and “packages” to be moved around within the same digital circuits that support much of the global economy. (173)

Some would point out that not all of these practices amount to what most people think of when they hear the word “slavery” – namely, chattel slavery, in which a person claims complete property rights in another human being, the way one might own an animal or an inanimate object.  But part of Leo’s point is precisely that there are many practices that are so gravely exploitative that they amount to slavery, and that all slavery is bad and to be opposed even if not bad in the specific ways chattel slavery is. 

This is not some new teaching.  On the contrary, it has long been the standard view in Catholic moral theology.  Indeed, that chattel slavery is intrinsically and gravely evil has been taught by the popes for five centuries, going back to the beginnings of the modern slave trade.  I document this in chapter 2 of my book All One in Christ, and one can find a detailed treatment in Joel Panzer’s The Popes and Slavery. 

Now, moral theologians traditionally have distinguished chattel slavery from practices that are in theory less extreme, such as penal servitude and indentured servitude.  In penal servitude, a person is forced to serve another in punishment for some crime.  The idea is that the person being punished in this way is not analogous to an animal or inanimate object.  Not just any old thing can be done to him or required of him, but only what is proportionate to his crime.  In indentured servitude, a person is forced to serve another in payment of a debt.  The idea is that the servant in this case too is not analogous to an animal or inanimate object.  Here too, not just any old thing can be done to him or demanded of him, but only what is relevant to the debt he owes.  Penal servitude and indentured servitude are different from chattel slavery, then, insofar as the servant is not a piece of property that may be used in just any old way the master wants.  These practices were seen as analogous to imprisonment, or to fines in punishment of a crime.  The idea is that if you can imprison someone for a crime or force him to pay back a debt owed, then you can by extension make him work as a servant as a way of being punished or of paying his debt.

The trouble is that even if in theory these practices are different from chattel slavery, in practice penal servitude and indentured servitude tend to degenerate into something little different from chattel slavery.  Servants end up being treated the way animals and inanimate objects would be, and masters end up cruel and exploitative.  Cases of outright chattel slavery would also be rationalized by stretching to find ways to interpret them as a kind of penal or indentured servitude.  Hence the consensus that developed in Catholic moral theology is that penal and indentured servitude are simply too gravely morally hazardous ever to be licit in practice.  Better flatly to reject all forms of servitude as incompatible with justice and charity.

However, this consensus on penal servitude and indentured servitude took a much longer time to develop than the consensus on the evil of chattel slavery.  Again, popes have for centuries condemned chattel slavery.  Accordingly, even centuries ago, they were already condemning the mistreatment of American Indians, and the African slave trade.  That is by no means some recent development.  However, at the same time, popes would sometimes still allow for servitude of the other kinds mentioned.  For example, in his 1452 bull Dum Diversas, Pope Nicholas V allowed for the forced servitude of enemies defeated in a just war, as a kind of penal servitude.  And an 1866 Instruction from the Holy Office under Pope Pius IX allowed certain kinds of penal and indentured servitude.  (See Panzer’s book for a useful detailed discussion of the Instruction.)  That servitude of all kinds ought flatly to be ruled out is something that becomes clear in magisterial teaching only beginning with Pope Leo XIII in the late nineteenth century.

This context is crucial for understanding Leo XIV’s remarks in Magnifica Humanitas.  The pope writes:

It was only in the nineteenth century that a formal, absolute and universal condemnation of slavery was clearly articulated, notably under Pope Leo XIII.  This development offers a clear example of the Church’s growth in understanding the perennial truths of Revelation that she safeguards.  Although there was not always consistency in practice – given that slavery was long tolerated before being unequivocally condemned – there has been a continuous affirmation throughout history of the dignity of every human being, created in the image of God, even if it took eighteen centuries for its full incompatibility with slavery to be explicitly recognized.  This constitutes a wound in Christian memory, one from which we cannot consider ourselves detached.  It is impossible not to feel deep sorrow when contemplating the immense suffering and humiliation endured by so many in stark contrast to their immeasurable dignity as persons infinitely loved by the Lord.  For this, in the name of the Church, I sincerely ask for pardon. (176)

Some have objected to this passage, on the grounds that it concedes too much to the critics of the Church by ignoring the centuries of papal condemnations of chattel slavery.  There is some justice to this objection.  It would have been better for Pope Leo to call attention to the fact that predecessors such as popes Eugene IV in the fifteenth century, Paul III and Gregory XIV in the sixteenth century, Urban VIII and Innocent XI in the seventeenth century, Benedict XIV in the eighteenth century, and Gregory XVI in the early nineteenth century, condemned chattel slavery.  The Church’s record on this issue is much better than most readers of the new encyclical are likely to realize from what it says.

However, in fairness to Pope Leo, his point is that the Magisterium’s peremptory condemnation of all of the morally indefensible forms of servitude begins with Leo XIII, and that this constitutes a legitimate and salutary development of what was always implicit in the basic moral premises of the Catholic faith.  And that is true.  (Footnotes 174 and 175 cite Dum Diversas and the 1866 Instruction as among the documents that failed to live up to what was implicit in these premises.)  And clearly, the reason the pope wants to emphasize that all of these forms of servitude are to be condemned is that he wants Catholics and all people of good will to see the urgency of dealing with the forms of exploitation that characterize the digital economy, described in the passage quoted above.

Liberalism?

Too many conservatives have a knee-jerk tendency to think of Pope Leo on the model of Pope Francis, and to attribute theologically and politically liberal positions to him.  This is largely a consequence of misunderstandings of the kind already addressed above.  What Leo says about the principle of solidarity and about the ethics of war, for example, has nothing to do with liberalism of either a political or theological sort.  He is simply reiterating longstanding and orthodox Catholic teaching.

These knee-jerk reactions also ignore important differences between Leo and Francis.  As I have noted in previous writings, Pope Leo has shown greater nuance than his predecessor on topics such as immigration enforcement and the death penalty.  He has moved the Church away from Francis’s policy on blessings for same-sex couples.  And there are aspects of Magnifica Humanitas that reflect further subtle but important differences between the pope and his predecessor.

Consider the encyclical’s treatment of the Declaration Dignitas Infinita, issued by the DDF under Pope Francis.  As I argued at the time of its release, the Declaration is seriously problematic, not least in its attribution to human beings of an “infinite dignity” – something that, strictly speaking, only God can be said to have.  Magnifica Humanitas cites Dignitas Infinita approvingly.  But interestingly, it proposes an innocuous reading of the problematic phrase:

The dignity of every human being can be described as infinite… for two reasons: first, because the love of God, who calls us to friendship with him, is infinite; and second, his love is absolutely unconditional, in the sense that, even if we search endlessly, we will never find anything that can erase or deny it. (53)

Certainly God’s love is infinite, and it is also unconditional insofar as there is a sense in which even those in Hell are still loved by God.  So, if what it means for human dignity to be infinite is simply that God’s love for us is infinite and unconditional, then that is an orthodox position (even if, in my opinion, the phrase is still extremely misleading and should be avoided).

There is another respect in which Magnifica Humanitas arguably corrects Dignitas Infinita.  Consider what Pope Leo says about the right to life:

Human rights are inviolable, since they are “inherent in the human person and in human dignity.”  Consequently, they are universal and inalienable.  Precisely because they are grounded in the common dignity of every man and woman, they have practical consequences and legal effects, for “it would be vain to proclaim human rights if, at the same time, everything were not done to ensure the duty of respecting them, respect by all, in all places and for all.”  Among these rights, the first is the right to life, from conception to its natural end, without which it is impossible to exercise any other right.  When this fundamental right is denied – as in the cases of induced abortion, killing of the innocent and euthanasia – we are faced with choices that the Church considers gravely wrong.  (55)

Dignitas Infinita had made the radical move of lumping the death penalty in with abortion, euthanasia, and the like as a comparable affront to human dignity, inherently and in all circumstances.  As I noted in the article linked to above, this is contrary to the traditional teaching of the Church.  But though Pope Leo has made it clear in other contexts that he is opposed to the death penalty, he does not make the mistake of treating it as on a par with these other practices.  Indeed, he does not mention it in the encyclical at all, and in this passage dealing with the right to life, he explicitly refers to the “killing of the innocent” as what is universally wrong and contrary to human dignity.  This is another improvement over Francis.

There is another aspect of Magnifica Humanitas that conservatives ought to appreciate, and that is its treatment of the principle of subsidiarity.  Churchmen today often have a lot to say about the principle of solidarity, and rightly so.  It is absolutely fundamental to Catholic social teaching, and in my opinion too many conservatives fail to appreciate its significance (due to the influence on them of libertarianism and a doctrinaire brand of free market economics). 

However, the same churchmen often fail to pay sufficient attention to the principle of subsidiarity, which balances the principle of solidarity.  They give it at most a passing nod but then mostly ignore it when making concrete policy recommendations.  Conservatives complain about this, and they are right to do so.  But Pope Leo does not make that mistake.  Leo states that Pope Pius XI’s emphasis on subsidiarity is among the aspects of his teaching that “remain particularly relevant today” (31).  He elaborates as follows:

If every woman and man is called to take ownership of his or her own life and to contribute to the formation of society, then social institutions must also respect and support this responsibility.  The Social Doctrine of the Church refers to subsidiarity as the principle according to which the role of individuals, families, local communities and intermediary organizations should not be supplanted by higher-level authorities.  Moreover, higher-level institutions must recognize, protect and promote the freedom and creativity of lower-level entities, coordinating their contributions so that they can cooperate effectively for the common good.  Starting with Leo XIII and the beginnings of modern social teaching, the Church has insisted that neither the individual nor the family should be subsumed by the State, but should be allowed to act freely, as far as possible, without harming the common good...  This principle encourages us to move beyond any form of paternalistic or welfare-based management of societal life.  (68-70)

Similarly, the pope notes that “financial assistance to the poor may at times be necessary in emergencies, but it cannot become the sole response, since the goal is to enable each person to live with dignity through his or her own work” (149).  Leo insists that the principles of solidarity and subsidiarity must balance each other: “When subsidiarity is not linked to solidarity, it ends up becoming merely the protection of particular interests; when solidarity is not supported by subsidiarity, it degenerates into a form of welfare that does not foster responsibility” (73).

Magnifica Humanitas is not perfect.  It is a bit verbose, sometimes speaks in terms that are too vague, and in some cases (as in the remarks on just war theory) says things that could have been formulated with a little more theological precision.  All the same, it is a landmark encyclical which repays study, and offers us sound guidance in dealing with the “new things” of our day, as Leo XIII showed the way to the Church and the world in his time.

143 comments:

  1. This is a beautiful post Prof!

    It covers all the doubts I had abo ut the encyclical raised by thinkers like Michael Pakaluk.

    Any serious critique should read this write up in my opinion.

    Very well put. I hope at some point in the future, Pope Leo can affirm the licitness of the death penalty in certain rare situations.

    As always I think people ought to turn to your work on matters of intelligence and philosophy of mind.

    It is my hope that one day you get cited in an encyclical.

    Cheers,

    Norm

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  2. I just wanted to thank you for this extensive commentary that made my understanding of the encyclical much better. Kind regards.

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  3. He is a novice ,dealing with troubled times. Latin encyclicals are passe, and, previous ones are irrelevant. Indeed, the papacy, itself, is irrelevant.
    But, don't trust my judgment. Ask a Catholic.

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  4. Fantastic review.

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  5. “the result, Pope Leo says, can be thought of as a new “Tower of Babel,” or what St. Augustine called the “City of Man” – a social order grounded in human pride and the libido dominandi of the powerful, rather than a city oriented to God and the common good of all human beings.”

    This is actually exactly not what the pope says. The primary contrast between Babel and Jerusalem is the monological perspective of Babel versus the diversity of perspectives of Jerusalem. In other words, rather than just developing AI through the singular perspective of Silicon Valley elites, we should be taking in diverse perspectives. You are reading this through the theological lens of the City of God, but I think this only comes though in a distorted way in the document. Yes, he says Babel develops “without reference to God” but the teleological orientation towards God isn’t doing nearly the heavy lifting it does in Augustine. It seems to me that it’s an optional add on and his contrast could stand without it.

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  6. My problem with the encyclical is it pulls its punches with respect to the need for conversion to Christ. True peace is only possible in Christ, and will reign on Earth only when the world is converted to Christ. Yet Leo consistently retreats from opportunities to straightforwardly call for conversion. In his section on "Building the civilization of love", he writes of the crucified and risen Lord, and of the Kingdom. He lets us know that the important historical effects of the Kingdom are that the Lord raises up men and women who persevere in doing good, and that grace does not magically eliminate conflict, but instead it implies active resistance to evil and an astonishing creativity in doing good. Christians serve the good and are sustained by a theological hope that gives reality both meaning and direction.

    But the saints "did good" and promoted peace primarily by converting souls to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not merely by "creatively" doing good, a phrase that is suspiciously self-centered. Leo then goes on to tell us at length how "we all can do our part", none of which involves converting souls to Christ. Instead we need to disarm words, build peace through justice (which is true, but Leo does not link justice to the Gospel), adopt the perspective of victims, revive dialogue, and cultivate a healthy realism. One might expect a Pope to explain "healthy realism" as the truth that sin is the root of the world's problems and that no peace is possible without the healing that comes with conversion to Christ. Instead there is blather that "Authentic realism does not give up on changing the world; indeed it starts by clearly identifying interests, fears, constraints and power dynamics, precisely in order to determine what can be achieved, and the measures needed to achieve. it" etc, etc.

    Guess which international organization is called an "essential instrument" for "promoting a civilization of love." The Catholic Church? Nope. The United Nations! A few paragraphs later Leo mentions the Holy See, giving it a secondary role, placing itself "at the service of humanity, thereby appealing to consciences in the name of charity and truth."

    There is nothing overtly heretical in the document, which I suppose is a blessing. It's depressing how low the bar has gotten that we no longer expect St. Peter's successor to boldly proclaim the Gospel as Peter did, and call for the conversion of the world, but are satisfied that he doesn't write anything explicitly heretical and offers some common sense advice on a few of the challenges facing the world.

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    1. "True peace is only possible in Christ"

      Do you have any way of showing that this is true, or is it just a dogma that you insist on? Are Christian societies more consistently peaceful than non-Christian societies? Are Christians regularly more peaceful and loving than non-Christians?

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    2. The twentieth century would argue that Christians are less bad to live under

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    3. Oh? Really? You gonna elaborate on that? Or are you just doing the "Look at the Soviet Union!" thing, whilst ignoring all the bad Christian governments? Franco and Salazar were both explicitly Christian, and their governments were horrible. Contrary to what some apologists try to claim, the Nazis were also not atheists or pagans - such positions were a minority within the movement. They embraced forms of Christianity that were consistent with their racist beliefs. But even if we grant you the Nazis, you still have a huge problem. Restricting your vision to the 20 century is myopic. Go back throughout history more generally, and you'll see a tremendous amount of evil being carried out by Christians both individually and corporately, oftentimes with the explicit blessing of the Church. Slavery, the execution of heretics, wars, forced conversions, the subjugation of women, the justification of oppressive hierarchies, colonialism - examples could be multiplied almost indefinitely. Some of these problems only arose *because* of Christianity, and even in the ones that are more "natural" to the human condition, you still face the problem that Christian faith seems to have no power to *stop* them. Christians at the very least aren't any *better* than non-Christians. And that seems like it should not be the case if Christianity is true. Let me end with a relevant quote from Mark Twain, on monarchy and revolutions, which I'm also using as a metaphor for the problems with modernity and traditional Christianity.


      “THERE were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror—that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.”

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    4. Actually, yes, I am going to elaborate on that. Much as you’d love me to start worshipping at the feet of Franco or Salazar (and really, the two aren’t comparable), I don’t care to. The two biggest killers of the twentieth century were Mao and Stalin, both ardent atheists promoting an atheistic ideology, and third in line comes Adolf, whose hatred of the Catholic Church is well known. That most Nazis were Christians is not as relevant to your point as you’d like, since the Roman Church was hardly on friendly terms with that regime. No, the most dreadful slave empires of the twentieth century were both avowedly atheist. The Japanese were hardly Christian, and your (beloved?) opposition to Franco and Salazar were not exactly the shining knights you’d like.

      Actually, as an instructor in Church history, I can poke a few holes in the rest of your tedious screed. The papacy opposed the practice of dispossessing natives since the early sixteenth century. Ironically the Protestant British were more favorable toward Catholic missions abroad in the nineteenth century than the Catholic French or Belgians. “Subjugation of women” - somebody needs to read Bronwen McShea; anyhow, I’d like to know in which corner of the world women have typically enjoyed more freedom, education, and respect if not in Christian Europe. If you were arguing in good faith - and you are not - perhaps we might get somewhere.

      Mark Twain always gets a laugh out of me. Usually it’s because he’s trying to.

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    5. And so you climb down from the walls of your motte and retreat to the bailey. You claimed that true peace is only possible in Christ. Now you are retreating to the far more modest claim that "the worst regimes of the 20th century were not Catholic specifically". Even if I granted you this, it wouldn't help your case. If Christians can still be Nazis en masse, that still suggests that Christianity does not make you specially moral. Oh, and while we're on the 20th century, the Papacy wasn't friendly with Hitler specifically, that seems to have been more a function of the Nazis wanting to control the Church rather than being willing to work with it. Notably, the Church retained friendly relations with the Croatian Ustase, a more Church-friendly Fascist group and staunch ally of Hitler. The Papacy also turned something of a blind eye to *their* genocide.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_clergy_involvement_with_the_Usta%C5%A1e

      "The papacy opposed the practice of dispossessing natives since the early sixteenth century."

      Citation, please. And even if this is true, it's leaving out the fact that the Church also invented the Doctrine of Discovery, the legal basis for Spanish and Portuguese colonization of the New World.

      "we grant to you full and free power, through the Apostolic authority by this edict, to invade, conquer, fight, subjugate the Saracens and pagans, and other infidels and other enemies of Christ, and wherever established their Kingdoms, Duchies, Royal Palaces, Principalities and other dominions, lands, places, estates, camps and any other possessions, mobile and immobile goods found in all these places and held in whatever name, and held and possessed by the same Saracens, Pagans, infidels, and the enemies of Christ, also realms, duchies, royal palaces, principalities and other dominions, lands, places, estates, camps, possessions of the king or prince or of the kings or princes, and to lead their persons in perpetual servitude, and to apply and appropriate realms, duchies, royal palaces, principalities and other dominions, possessions and goods of this kind to you and your use and your successors the Kings of Portugal."

      -Dum Diversas, Papal Bull issued Pope Nicholas V in 1452

      "Among other works well pleasing to the Divine Majesty and cherished of our heart, this assuredly ranks highest, that in our times especially the Catholic faith and the Christian religion be exalted and be everywhere increased and spread, that the health of souls be cared for and that barbarous nations be overthrown and brought to the faith itself"

      -Inter Caetera, by Pope Alexander VI, 1493

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    6. Oh, and really? We're bringing out the "Christianity was feminist!" argument? Really? Oh, buddy, trust me, you're not gonna win that game.

      "Why was it, that when these two (Aaron and Miriam) had both acted with despite towards him (Moses), the latter alone was adjudged punishment? Numbers 12:1, etc. First, because the woman was the more culpable, since both nature and the law place the woman in a subordinate condition to the man." -Irenaeus, Fragment 32

      "And do you not know that you are (each) an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of that (forbidden) tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. On account of your desert—that is, death—even the Son of God had to die. And do you think about adorning yourself over and above your tunics of skins?”
      Tertullian, De Cultu Feminarium (On the Apparel of Women), Chapter 1"

      "Men should not sit and listen to a woman … ‘For it is improper for a woman to speak in an assembly,’ no matter what she says, even if she says admirable things, or even saintly things, that is of little consequence, since they come from the mouth of a woman.”

      Origen, Fragments on 1 Corinthians 74

      “The woman taught once, and ruined all. On this account therefore he says, let her not teach. But what is it to other women, that she suffered this? It certainly concerns them; for the sex is weak and fickle, and he is speaking of the sex collectively.”

      St John Chrysostom, Homily 9 on First Timothy

      “… woman was given to man, woman who was of small intelligence and who perhaps still lives more in accordance with the promptings of the inferior flesh than by superior reason. Is this why the apostle Paul does not attribute the image of God to her?”

      St Augustine, De Genesi ad literam, 11.42

      "As regards the individual nature, woman is defective and misbegotten, for the active force in the male seed tends to the production of a perfect likeness in the masculine sex; while the production of woman comes from a defect in the active force or from some material indisposition, or even from some external influence. Such as that of a south wind, which is moist, as the Philosopher observes"

      Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Vol. I, Q. 92, Art. 1, Reply to Objection 1

      The best part? I'm not even close to exhausting my sources. I could quite literally do this all day. You are just plain wrong. Christianity has been intensely misogynistic for a very, very long time.

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    7. AHAHAHAHAHA! What a chump! Guess what religion gives us the first autobiographical writing from a woman? Christianity (St. Perpetua’s prison diary). Guess what religion gives us the first written celebration of an ordinary woman? Christianity (Life of St. Macrina). Guess what religion was the first to say that husbands should love their wives sacrificially? Christianity (Ephesians 5). Guess which religion gave us the first woman to support herself professionally through her writing? Christianity (Catherine of Pizan).

      You jokers want to caterwaul about how eeeeeevil the Christians were, but you conveniently leave out the other major religious and intellectual traditions of the time that had a superior appreciation of women.

      Sounds like somebody should read Bronwen McShea.

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    8. And are we still on this crap about the “doctrine of discovery”? It was never Church teaching. It showed up in a couple of legal documents in the 1490s and was decisively rejected in the 1530s. Blame the countries that pushed it.

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    9. “And so you climb down from the walls of your motte and retreat to the bailey. You claimed that true peace is only possible in Christ. Now you are retreating to the far more modest claim that "the worst regimes of the 20th century were not Catholic specifically".”

      If you paid a modicum of attention to language, you would notice I am not the one who made that claim.

      “If Christians can still be Nazis en masse, that still suggests that Christianity does not make you specially moral.”

      A claim I do not recall ever making. What Christianity *does* claim are saints, a very particular kind of morality.

      “the Papacy wasn't friendly with Hitler specifically, that seems to have been more a function of the Nazis wanting to control the Church rather than being willing to work with it.”

      Trivially false, as the tenor of the documents published by Pius XI apropos of Mussolini and those apropos of Hitler demonstrate.

      “Notably, the Church retained friendly relations with the Croatian Ustase, a more Church-friendly Fascist group and staunch ally of Hitler. The Papacy also turned something of a blind eye to *their* genocide.”

      Ah yes, that warm and fuzzy relationship with a country the Holy See never formally recognized. You could at least have said they signed a treaty with Hitler.

      "The papacy opposed the practice of dispossessing natives since the early sixteenth century."

      Citation, please.

      Sublimis Deus, 1537. Please.

      “We define and declare [ ... ] that [, .. ] the said Indians and all other people who may later be discovered by Christians, are by no means to be deprived of their liberty or the possession of their property, even though they be outside the Christian faith; and that they may and should, freely and legitimately, enjoy their liberty and possession of their property; nor should they be in any way enslaved; should the contrary happen, it shall be null and have no effect.”

      “And even if this is true, it's leaving out the fact that the Church also invented the Doctrine of Discovery, the legal basis for Spanish and Portuguese colonization of the New World.”

      Like I said, never Church teaching. Something like this appears a couple of times in legal documents, and then is rejected decisively.

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    10. Me: "Here are six (and by no means an exhaustive list of) foundational Christian thinkers whose work was both deeply misogynistic and also crucial to the development of Christian thought."

      You: "Yeah, well, look at this autobiography that was probably at least partly written by a woman! Look at this other book praising a woman! How could it be misogynistic then?"

      Absolutely none of that proves, or even suggests, that Christianity was not profoundly misogynistic. Misogynists sometimes praise women (for instance, if they behave "appropriately", or if it's useful for propaganda purposes), and women can *sometimes* rise to prominence in misogynistic systems, just like minorities can *sometimes* rise to wealth and influence in racist systems. Your claim is a total non-sequitur.

      Your *other* claims about women are equally stupid. "Husbands should love their wives sacrificially" - I notice you chose to omit the fact that immediately before this verse, Paul says that wives must *submit to their husbands in everything*.

      "22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything."

      This is in no way contradictory to the idea that Paul is being misogynistic here. "Women are precious property that should be taken care of" is still misogyny, because it still views women as property rather than people.

      You close out with a nice bit of Whataboutism - even if it were true, other traditions being worse would not make Christianity good. That's not how this works. Christianity could be bad and everything else could be worse. That wouldn't loop around to Christianity being good.

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    11. So much for your defense of misogyny. Your defense of colonialism is even worse. You cite Sublimis Deus, once again leaving out the crucial information that it was effectively suspended not a year later by Non Indecens Videtur:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastorale_officium

      For those too lazy to copy and paste a link, the story went roughly like this:

      1. Pope Paul III teaches than anyone who enslaves or despoils Native Americans would be automatically excommunicated.
      2. The Conquistadors get pissed off and complain to the King of Spain, who is at this time also Holy Roman Emperor (Charles V). He tells the Pope that this is really rather an unfair punishment and that this Encyclical is damaging to the important task of colonization and spreading the word of God.
      3. The Pope caves and formally rescinds the ecclesiastical censures.

      So Sublimis Deus was only in place for a year and rescinding it was a relatively simple affair - as opposed to however many decades/centuries of trying it took to get Inter Caetera, Romanus Pontifex, Dum Diversas, the Treaty of Tordesillas or any of the other relevant Papal Laws rescinded (I'm not even sure what the status of most of those Bulls is now).

      There were also a few other problems with the Bull.

      Firstly, it wasn't retroactive, meaning that there was no punishment for someone who had *already* engaged in the murder and theft of Indigenous Peoples.
      Secondly, it did not address or remove the presumed obligation of monarchs, their explorers, and armies, to convert Natives, which of course they continued to do violently.

      Funny how your arguments seem to collapse whenever the context gets put back in.

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    12. Laughable. I list a number of uniquely Christian feminist accomplishments - but no, because St. Paul told women to submit to their husbands (after telling Christians to submit to one another), *baaaad*. Please go ahead and show me where else in the ancient world anyone told husbands to love their wives sacrificially, by the way.

      Also, you should brush up on your early modern history. Sublimis Deus condemns all unjust aggression against native peoples. “Retroactivity” is irrelevant. And it was never revoked. The Habsburg monarchy forced a partial retraction of the penalty of excommunication - but in your fantasy world the pope is apparently immune to geopolitical pressures. Please, go ahead and name another contemporary monarch who condemned imperialism. I’ll wait.

      Go ahead with your tired response. You convince no one.

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  7. And also, the encyclical has this key paragraph, which appears to be a useful corrective to the assumption that no nation has a right to resist mass immigration: "I invite everyone to conceive of ways of cooperating and of more effective international institutions, capable of safeguarding the global common good without compromising the legitimate diversity of peoples and nations. Indeed, the promotion of the common good can never be separated from respect for the right of peoples to exist, to preserve their own identity and to contribute their unique qualities to the family of nations."

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  8. I like the fact that the pope believes the death penalty is "inadmissible." Perhaps in the future, he will expand on his April 23 remarks that other issues take on a greater priority than sexual morality:

    "First of all, I think it's very important that the unity or division of the church should not revolve around sexual matters," Leo said in English. "We tend to think that when the church is talking about morality that the only issue of morality is sexual. And in reality I believe there are greater and more important issues such as justice, equality, freedom of men and women, freedom of religion that would all take priority before that particular issue."

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    1. Dr Feser attaches much greater importance to sexual morality than Pope Leo does. This is just one of many of his numerous comments on that issue:
      https://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2019/07/psychoanalyzing-sexual-revolutionary.html
      Maybe he will weigh in on what Leo said eventually.

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  9. "It also generated certain problems, such as economic instability for the working class and the concentration of vast power in private hands. " Really? Before Capitalism, they used to cause economic instability famines. Before Capitalism, the used to refer to concentration in "private" hands monarchy or oligarchy. And even if there is increased instability, that is only because when you already dirt poor, there is not much chance for instability.

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    1. That's easy. Most "private" land before Capitalism was corporately exploited. Royal, aristocratic or monastic lands were mostly farmed by villages that functioned as corporations. Private property was not absolute in the modern sense. It was more like the conception Saint Thomas Aquinas had of it.

      Pope Leo XIV, in calling for redistribution, is light years away from marxism, because Capitalism's tendency towards concentration of property in the hands of the few (with more or less absolute ownership) is the enemy of private property





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    2. Yeah, to my eyes a "concentration of vast power in private hands" complaint is just a holdover from marxian-style economic thinking combined with "power" mania. Private property just is the power of individuals to decide what to do with goods. Massive private property means power over massive amounts of goods. So what?

      It's breathtakingly unhistorical to think that there is anything special here in modern economics. You had massive amounts of wealth in earlier times: before the de Graafs of Holland in the 1600s, you had the Medicis in Florence in the 1400s, the Dandolos in Venice in the 1200s, Lombards before that, and so on.

      To complicate matters, you had the mixture of personal and governmental power at many times throughout history. Pericles was extremely rich in his own right, but then got to direct the use of the wealth of the state of Athens to advance "public" goods - what HE decided were public goods. The conceptual divide between "private" and "public" control of the wealth is very, very slippery in general, all the more so in non-democratic regimes where the lord or monarch ruling "for France" is squishy, when that same monarch says "I am France."

      Ultimately, even money in the government's hands is allocated for use by individuals, who make their decisions based on personal ideas of "the good". Just like happens with wealth in private hands. If you don't think congress-critters and bureaucrats don't put money into personal fiefdoms and pet projects, you're probably still in kindergarten.

      In principle, nothing in Catholic social teaching declares personal control of massive amounts of wealth is wrong or disordered, only wrong ways of acquiring it or using it. And the complaint itself of "vast power" gained through it is - at least in most cases - merely a subterfuge for envy of the vast wealth.

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    3. Bit flimsy there, isn't it? Isn't the point that, no matter how massive the amount of "private" property in the hands of the few in the pre-Capitalist era in Western Europe, most people still had a stake in economically productive property because of the corporative use of most property, rather than scraps from others' tables? Didn't this apply in Veneto, Tuscany and Lombardy? Can you see how Capitalism is different? The answer, according to papal teaching from Leo XIII onward isn't necessarily to abolish the extremely rich, but to redistribute property until "private" property (the stake in productive resources available to most before Capitalism) becomes the rule, not the exception.
      Wasn't it the Marxists who claimed Capitalism had its roots in feudal society?

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    4. That's easy. Most "private" land before Capitalism was corporately exploited.

      There's other private property besides land. Ships, for example. Gold and silver. Smithing tools. Mills and looms. Glass and glass-blowing instruments. Kilns (for pottery or other stuff). Bows & arrows, swords, then armor, then cannons, and gunpowder. Horses, cattle, sheep, pigs, goats, camels.

      Private property was not absolute in the modern sense. It was more like the conception Saint Thomas Aquinas had of it.

      There was a range of different views of it, in different places and times. Some was managed corporately. Other areas weren't.

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    5. Most productive property for most people in pre-Capitalist Europe was in land. Craftsmen were often corporate. Capitalism dates from the Enlightenment period.

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    6. So, to all the people responding to Anon here, would you care to provide any sources evidencing your claims about the uses and relations of private property in the pre-Industrial world? Just flatly asserting things is the method of fools and hucksters.

      From my own research, it seems like you're talking about the existence of Common Land, or "The Commons". Yes, this did exist, and it was a useful right for Commoners, but trying to recast its existence as somehow making the Manorial/Feudal system egalitarian is wildly historically inaccurate. The Manor was owned by a lord, who took the best land for himself, as his demesne. The rest he rented out to tenants, and a portion of that land would be left for common use rather than being assigned to an individual. This was effectively a form of welfare, but it absolutely does not imply that Medieval economics wasn't exploitative. Furthermore, the Commons were under constant legal attack by the Crown and the Nobility, who constantly attempted to bolster the power of the lord at the Commoners' expense. That hardly sounds like a system where economic power isn't "concentrated in private hands".

      It is however true that the destruction of the Commons via Enclosure was indeed disastrous for the peasantry, and a vital early step in the creation of Capitalism.

      https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1911_Encyclop%C3%A6dia_Britannica/Commons

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    7. It will never stop being funny to me, the sight of chest-beating Conservative Catholics picking and choosing their faith. The Pope is the Supreme Pontiff to whom all owe immense and automatic respect, until he tells us something we don't like, at which point we're all Protestants now. The Church is the only one that can define and understand the True Faith, right up until it says something that contradicts our personal understanding of what that is, at which point all of a sudden we reserve the right to denounce it for "failure to conform to tradition". And you have the gall to call liberals "Cafeteria Catholics"!

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    8. The answer, according to papal teaching from Leo XIII onward isn't necessarily to abolish the extremely rich, but to redistribute property until "private" property (the stake in productive resources available to most before Capitalism) becomes the rule, not the exception.

      The ideal from Leo XIII through Benedict XVI has NEVER entailed this "redistribution" to entail forcibly taking away property from those who have it in order to put it into others' hands. It has always been based on a view that the many should have property, and a stake in productive wealth, through ordinary means of acquisition, i.e. making your own tools, or saving up from your labor to buy stock - methods that generally respect private ownership already in existence. They never argued for the forcible redistribution of goods of the rich solely on the basis of the fact of their being rich.

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    9. Taxation can redistribute to some degree. At the end of the day, as Aquinas taught, property exists for the whole of society. If too much is locked up un under the absolute forms of today's West, then obligatory redistribution, at least until the possibility of private ownership becomes a possibility for most, is legitimate. In the pre-Enlightenment West, not just woods and pasture could be jointly exploited. Cultivated plots, exploited individually, were not absolute in many cases. These reverted to the village corporation if no longer used, and could not be sold off to outsiders; corporate ownership (even if the corporation as a whole was part of rhe domains of secular or monastic "owners"). Minus the feudalism, this was copied in the Moshav system in Israel, which functioned much better than rhe Kibbutz system staffed by socialists.

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    10. @EXE [Jun 4/26, 5:02 a.m.]:

      "The Pope is the Supreme Pontiff to whom all owe immense and automatic respect, until he tells us something we don't like, at which point we're all Protestants now."

      This represents a misunderstanding of the way the Catholic Church works. It's true that the Pope governs the Church, but it doesn't mean that the faithful need to put what the Pope says above the deposit of faith where the two conflict.

      The Pope's job is threefold: 1) proclaim the Gospel; 2) transmit the deposit of faith; 3) apply the deposit of faith to new circumstances, which is precisely what Leo XIV has done in Magnifica Humanitas, however imperfectly.

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    11. OK, so a couple of issues I see here. For one thing, the term "deposit of Faith" doesn't appear in history until the Council of Trent, and by all account is based on an interpretation of concepts put forward in 1 and 2 Timothy - which is a problem, since the majority of critical scholars are convinced that they're pseudepigraphal - in other words, they were not actually written by Paul. How, then, can you have such confidence that the Deposit of Faith, at least in any recognizable form, is truly ancient rather than simply being an invention of the 16th century?

      Secondly, and more relevantly, the way you describe the Deposit of Faith makes it sound as if it were some kind of rule or body of knowledge that we could have on its own, without the Pope telling us what it is, and by which we can judge the faithfulness of the Pope. But how would this work? Surely it can't simply be continuity with past teachings? Because if so, then the entire concept is sunk already, because the Catholic Church has absolutely changed her teachings throughout history. To take just the simplest and most uncontroversial example, slavery was explicitly permitted right up until the 19th century, when it began to be seriously opposed. Then at Vatican 2, it was declared an abomination against God. If that doesn't represent a rupture with tradition, then what does?

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    12. 1) As you should know, the fact that a concept or a precise turn of phrase is late in appearance does not exclude its having been implicit in what preceded. I see no reason to doubt that the Fathers believed in a deposit of faith.

      2) The pseudipigraphical nature of the Pastoral Epistles is irrelevant.

      3) The interpretation of the Rule of Faith is an interplay among the bishops, the Pope, and the laity, although the former two categories have a normative pride of place. This is all discussed at some length by Francis Sullivan.

      4) Again, somebody is clearly unfamiliar with Newman (and I daren’t hope for Marin-Sola) if one thinks that any change in Catholic teaching is somehow damning.

      Seriously, just run your comments from ChatGPT before posting them.

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  10. Cardinal Ottaviani's short couple of paragraphs in 1949 (in which he argues that because of "secret weapons" war is never legitimate because of the harm it can cause) are hardly in continuity with what came before or after. It's a flash in the pan. Pope Pius XII did not say this. Pope Leo XIV doesn't say this. Pope Benedict asks whether something like Ottaviani's idea might be the only option; i.e. no just war in today's circumstances. But saying that a universal principle of moral law, the right to self-defence is no long valid because of changing circumstances seems pretty skewed. Ottaviani was wrong.

    The prayer-book revolt had little chance of success and those who participated suffered horribly. The Irish Catholics continually used violence for 800 years with next to no hope of success. Ireland today wouldn't be Ireland if they hadn't.

    There is another kind of worst outcome extermination which occurs when there is no "hopeless resistance". In situations of overwhelming odds, the absence of hopeless resistance looks and is felt as acquiescence by both sides. History shows that this has led to the annihilation of countless societies. It's the difference between the respect that Ireland commands for surviving and Saint Augustine's Christian heartland of North Africa, which nobody remembers or even pities.





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    1. I don't think the examples you're using are comparable. You're comparing an oppression based mostly on ethnic grounds (the English subjugation of Ireland) with an primarily religious one (Muslims vs African Christians). Comparisons between those are inevitably going to be frought. Also, while I'm glad that my homeland got its independence from England, I don't think it's correct to say that we "wouldn't be Ireland" if we hadn't gotten it, except in the trivial sense that we wouldn't be an independent state. We remained ourselves, retaining our culture and sense of identity for centuries, even under immense repression. Part of that is the use of violent resistance, yes, but even when rebellion failed miserably, that didn't extinguish our sense of Irishness.

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    2. Throughout most of the period it has been primarily a civilisational, religious struggle in Ireland. If the Irish hadn't continually fought, they would have become, hundreds of years ago, what Cornwall is now.

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    3. You are grievously mistaken if you think there wasn’t a religious component after the Reformation.

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    4. Ireland shall endure English oppression for a week of centuries, says the prophecy. Not much longer now. Sasana amach!

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    5. Anon,

      Do you really think I don't know that there was a religious dimension to the conflict after the Reformation? Of course their was, but the centrality of that religious dimension only lasted for a bit. The conflict began long before that division and persists long after it has ceased to be anything other than an identity marker, so religion cannot be central to the conflict. In Northern Ireland, "Catholic" and "Protestant" are labels that really mean "Indigenous" and "Colonizer". The famous joke about Northern Irish folk asking an atheist whether he's a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist illustrates this.

      Miguel:
      You're equivocating on the meaning of "struggle", for one thing. Most of that struggle was nonviolent, even if only because you can't just do mass violence very often. The campaigns to insist on our land rights and hold onto our cultural heritage, for instance, was a struggle, but wasn't violence (well, not primarily - the implied threat of assassination should a landlord not heed the demands of the Land League was important, but as a coercive tool to enable negotiations to work, rather than as something directly done).

      Funnily enough, I'm not sure we're actually in major disagreement that you can engage in collective, violent self-defense in more situations than Aquinas would allow. I just don't appreciate inaccuracies being used about my country.

      Rory

      What cockamamie "prophecy" are you talking about? And 700 years since the start of English control in Ireland would have expired in the 1800s.

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    6. You call yourself Irish and you don't know that?

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    7. Rory,

      Nobody in Ireland (except, maybe, super-hardcore Catholics) cares or talks about "prophecy". Since you didn't bother to actually explain anything, I had to look this up on my own, and I found that it's a prophecy attributed to St Malachy. There are two major problems with this:

      1. St. Malachy died in 1148. The claimed prophecy doesn't appear in the historical record until a pamphlet printed in 1866 - seven hundred and eighteen years later! In history, we call this sort of claim "bullshit". If you actually take it seriously, there is no kinder description for you than "gullible idiot". You should not believe claims about historical figures that are not attested until centuries after their deaths, because such claims are almost guaranteed to be legendary rather than historical. Its presence in a polemical pamphlet, intended as propaganda, makes it even more likely to be false.

      2. Even if we take the claim at face value, the prophecy has failed. Seven centuries from Malachi's death expired in 1848. Clearly you regard it as something yet to be fulfilled, so I presume you're talking about Northern Ireland still being part of the United Kingdom. Yet we are now nearly NINE hundred years out from the latest possible point this prophecy could have been made, and still it has not been fulfilled. How is this not a refutation of it? Are prophets allowed to be off by two centuries?

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    8. Don't you have any respect for Ireland? Don't you know this great foretelling that the Brits will get out?

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  11. This was an informative post.

    I'm glad that the encyclical mentioned that despite the marketing of so-called AI as some sort of ethereal thing, it is anything but. Just as the cloud, far from being some etherialized pure information is just somebody else's computer, as they say.

    One thing that people need to look out for is that people in bad faith will try to misrepresent things in the encyclical to try to trick Catholics into supporting various agendas. There are innumerable ways to manipulate language, too many to keep track of individually, but it is not necessary to do so. All that is needed is to be aware of people who are honest and in good faith and those who are not; one should not just trust people because they say you should especially if they do not share the same values.

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  12. Doesn’t matter whether it was Pius or Leo, the Church’s position on just war is out of touch with its own tradition and political reality

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    1. So, you are arrogating to yourself the authority to judge whether the Church understands and is in continuity with its own teachings, its own tradition? I'm not inside the walls anymore, but I do wonder how on Earth how anyone who accepts the Catholic propositions could entertain such a position.

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    2. Sigh. You’ve got a lot to learn about Catholic theology, bud. Why don’t you go kiss the pope’s foot some more?

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    3. OK? Kind of a non-response you've got there, friend. Aren't you supposed to practice submission of the intellect and will? And if it's supposed to be submission to "the tradition as a whole", then, well, that doesn't really help you. The tradition is not one univocal position or opinion held throughout time. You have a vast array of different, often contradictory positions held throughout time. How does one coherently follow a tradition that contradicts itself? Or does one have to choose a specific position within the Tradition, proclaim that position to be central, and then subordinate every other position to the chosen one? In that case, you're doing exactly the same thing that Protestants do to the Bible. Help me understand, here. Surely it can't be that difficult to give a cliffnotes summary, can it? How does one find the True Church Position, if not by following the Pope? That at least is straightforward.

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    4. Non-response? Pish. You’re an absolute joke, and I don’t know why you bother hanging around this page. Nobody takes your tripe seriously, nor are you presenting the sort of hard-hitting arguments you imagine you are. You want the Cliffs Notes for how to interpret tradition? Then read Avery Dulles’s Magisterium. When you’re done with that, if you can handle it, then you can move on to Francis Sullivan’s larger work of the same name. But we both know you’re not interested in a good faith exchange of views, and you won’t read either.

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    5. "Guffaw! Guffaw I say!"

      Really interesting how almost nobody on this site can actually give even a simple summary of their own beliefs. It's almost like you don't actually understand them. Whenever I talk with online atheists, they don't have any trouble explaining their positions. It's only TradCaths who huff, pout, poison the well, and insist you have to go and read eleventy thousand books before being worthy of even a second of their time. Notice that *I* don't do this to *you* - I don't sit here demanding that you read Marx's Kapital before being able to discuss Socialism with me. If you look further down in this very thread, you'll see me having productive conversations with others when they give me basic respect and benefit of the doubt.

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    6. Guffaw indeed. And do you know why? Because you are a very lazy person. It is not difficult to hop on ChatGPT and say “explain the Catholic position on X,” and then fool around with the software to try to poke holes in it. Not 100%, but certainly would get you farther than whatever you’re trying now.

      Anyhoo, not a TradCath. Not even close. But nice try there.

      Oh, and if you want the benefit of the doubt, lose the flip.

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  13. Two quick thoughts:

    1. Economic control was already in "private hands". Industrial capitalism merely transferred it from the hands of nobles and kings to those of private industrialists.

    2. Claiming that Socialists want control of the means of production to be "in the hands of the State" is reductive to the point of falsehood. Socialists believe that *workers* should control the things used to create value (factories, farms, etc), and disagree about how exactly that should work. What about those who believe in turning everything into worker co-ops? Or who simply believe in Workplace Democracy?

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    1. Socialists believe that *workers* should control the things used to create value (factories, farms, etc), and disagree about how exactly that should work. What about those who believe in turning everything into worker co-ops?

      When it's the workers themselves who chose to contribute the materials and tools used in the labor, and who then together decide how to use the resources and tools and what to do with the output: great, and nobody has argued this is improper.

      When it is other people who have the resources of materials and tools, and who don't choose to simply give them up to have the workers labor on them: why should the workers be the ones to decide on how they are used and receive ALL of the value in the output? Why is this not theft of the materials and tools from those who held them originally?

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    2. "When it is other people who have the resources of materials and tools, and who don't choose to simply give them up to have the workers labor on them: why should the workers be the ones to decide on how they are used and receive ALL of the value in the output? Why is this not theft of the materials and tools from those who held them originally?"

      I'm not entirely clear what you're imagining here, but let me speculate. (If anything I say here is proceeding from incorrect assumptions, please correct me and help explain what you mean). It sounds to me like you're arguing something along the lines of "capitalists built the factory, so they should own it and everything it produces, and taking that away from them is theft and therefore bad". If that's correct, then I would counter by asserting that society ought to be structured in such a way as to maximize the happiness of all of its members (or, at least, as many as possible). Allowing individuals to have disproportionate control over those resources, and over their fellow Men, is injurious to that common good. To hoard vital goods in order to benefit yourself at the expense of everyone else is selfish and antisocial, and not something that ought to be protected. It is an empirically observable fact that the current economic system advantages a few at the expense of the many. Capitalists can live lives of ease and luxury, usually using or starting from inherited wealth, having the freedom to engage with the world in whatever way they see fit. Laborers, meanwhile, have no choice but to submit themselves to whatever vagaries fortune has chosen to throw them. They have no realistic option to live besides becoming cogs in the machine that enriches the capitalists (and if alternatives or options for escape do exist, the capitalists typically use their power to crush them). This machine is operated not for their welfare, but for the maximization of profit, for the welfare of the capitalists. The worker can and will be screwed over whenever doing so benefits the owner class (just look at how many companies are trying to replace workers with AI, for one example). Furthermore, this imbalance of economic power gives the capitalist class more influence and power over society, which they can use the perpetuate and defend these injustices. America is, or is close to becoming, an outright captured state, where private interests can de facto "buy" politicians through lobbying and campaign donations, subverting democracy and ensuring that "the people's representatives" don't actually represent them.

      So, to put it simply, I don't care about the poor, starving billionaires and their "right" to own the economy. Their ownership of the means of production is obviously and manifestly producing evil results for the overwhelming majority of people, thus it ought to be thrown down, and to Hell with anyone who screams "but that's steeeeeeeallling!!!"

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    3. If that's correct, then I would counter by asserting that society ought to be structured in such a way as to maximize the happiness of all of its members (or, at least, as many as possible).

      Agreed, with 2 caveats:

      (1) Your comment starts from a blank slate: "society SHOULD be organized..." One difficulty is that society IS ALREADY organized some other way, so the "should be" must also (when we figure out what end result is the best organization) consider also how to justly get from here to there. Communism's answer has been (explicitly) "violent revolution". I don't deny that there are cases where violence is warranted, but I decline the assumption that ALL prior claims of ownership were mere theft, to be overthrown.

      (2) One of the requirements of happiness is self-determination in the small matters that pertain to the self: choosing one's own career, and spouse, and many, many other things: Subsidiarity. This includes the possibility of choosing badly, squandering money, time, school, relationships, and opportunities, and becoming destitute, ignorant, a drain on society. The happiness of as many as possible MEANS allowing the unhappiness of some without bailing them out. Because of parents' roles in using their resources for the family, the bad decisions of the drunkard husband WILL badly affect wife and kids. The design of a good society cannot be such as to block those results without taking away the very possibility of the bad decisions, and this would be still more detrimental to happiness of most.

      Allowing individuals to have disproportionate control over those resources, and over their fellow Men, is injurious to that common good.

      Disproportionate measured by WHAT?

      Any large, complex society is going to require large, complex organizations, and every such organization must
      have those making decisions that others follow as orders, not as mere suggestions. The deciders JUST ARE exercising control over their fellow men. It may be in small ways (if the organization is a local chess club), but it's control for all that. Managers in large enterprises directing the use of large amounts of resources exercise a great deal more control over the lives of many. You can't avoid that.

      You can suggest that "the leaders must be elected", that way those being directed get a say at least in who does the directing, if not directly in the decision-making. (A) At least initially, at startup, the shareholders have far more at stake (more losses to bear) than the workers, so they should get more say in design and direction. (B) We already DO that, in politics, and the mantra for quite some time now is that the "representatives" don't represent us. And (C) there is little proof that this method would work better in business, rather the evidence appears opposite. Just as some are demonstrably bad at managing others, some are also bad at choosing managers. Even labor union leadership ends up looking just like this, they push positions that don’t actually benefit the workers, to feather their own nests, they do lobbying and campaign donations, subverting democracy, etc.

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    4. capitalists built the factory, so they should own it and everything it produces...To hoard vital goods in order to benefit yourself

      First, the proper position of "capital" as such is not that the shareholders should "own everything" produced, but that they should receive A PORTION of what is produced. Pope Leo XIII made this point explicit. A share of the product is not "everything." The laborers also should receive a share. Leo's ideal model is as follows: The ORIGINAL shareholders own the factory itself, and the initial materials worked on; they pay wages to the workers,( and the initial wages ALSO comes from the shareholders initial investment capital). After the goods get sold, the gross receipts get used as follows: (a) buy more materials, (b) pay ongoing wages for living support of laborers (including for time sick and for injuries / disabilities) (c) pay for factory maintenance and refurbishment, (d) pay shareholders some profits for their investment, and (e) pay for workers' retirements. This last category (e) won't come to fruition until far, far down the road, so it too must be INVESTED for the future: Leo envisions also that part of their pay for their future is in amounts that can either be paid as cash so that they can literally become private investors at their own direction, or paid as corporate stock in the company itself (generating employee-ownership to an extent). Thus they may also become part of the shareholder class.

      Second, while Leo's model here depicts vastly many SMALL shareholders, he nowhere denies the kind of corporate arrangements where some get to be LARGE shareholders. Arguably, there is no sound way of avoiding such a result, while leaving in place both subsidiarity and simply good (and bad) fortune to have a hand in affairs. Out of the thousands and thousands of start-up computing companies in the start of the dot-com boom, nobody could possibly predict which ones would pay off at 1000-1 ratios, and there are no GOOD law models that could be envisioned to prevent such outcomes.

      This machine is operated not for their welfare,...The worker can and will be screwed over whenever doing so benefits the owner class (just look at how many companies are trying to replace workers with AI...I don't care about the poor, starving billionaires...Their ownership of the means of production is obviously and manifestly producing evil results for the overwhelming majority of people

      I don't like the abuse either, and I agree that there IS plenty of it. I ask you to consider the possibility that doing away with private ownership of the means of production violates subsidiarity and produces even more unhappiness. What comes to mind is St. Thomas More's answer to a request to mis-use law, when he held power, to go after someone:

      More: "What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?"
      Roper: "Yes! I'd cut down every law in England to do that!"
      More: "Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down—and you're just the man to do it—do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!"


      Rich people SHOULD use their wealth (and power) for the good of everyone, especially those poor through no doing of their own. But forcing that result by laws preventing anyone from ever being a wealthy shareholder damages everyone's welfare too.

      I heartily approve of small business owned by the persons who built it up, and large businesses that become employee-owned by ordinary lawful means. I generally dislike extremely large business (whether owned by employees or not) because they tend to get in bed with government and warp laws to their benefit. But I distrust laws as the mechanism to prevent the abuses.

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  14. I understand this is somewhat off-topic, but your mention of Romano Amerio reminded me of a passage from his book Iota Unum (pg. 715) "Now, in the present circumstances, its unity is fractured in three respects: doctrine, worship, and government." Prior to the Council and New Order regime, the unity of the Church was not fractured in this sense. There are many, many other fractures as well. I'm curious if you ever defended the proposition that the Church today is the same Church it was before. There is a before, and an after. The word Catholic does not mean what it used to.

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    1. Same thing happened back in 1550. And in 1200. And in 880. Etc.

      Louis Bouyer - a bit more reliable of a commentator on the state of the Church than Amerio, remarked that “Catholicism” is a modern term referring to a particular phase of the Church’s life that is now closed. It would do us good, he quipped, if it died out.

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  15. I just taught just war doctrine in OCIA, and your expert summary of pontifical teaching about the very finite conditions in which war could be deemed just is precisely the follow-up I needed. My precision on this point in class makes it sound like I am liberal, but that precision is not new, and in fact is consistent magisterium in an age of nuclear armament. Thank you!

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  16. Pope Leo is trying to accomplish a lot, and Prof. Feser does a great job of providing context and analysis.
    My "but" is but small. Re: "At the other extreme were those who favored a socialist model on which economic planning and ownership of the basic means of production ought to be put in the hands of the state."
    Don't socialists generally claim - whatever outcome they envision in the workings - that the surplus value created by workers' labor ought to be allocated by the workers who produce it? On the labor theory that the surplus value belongs to the workers. The state is brought in as a entity that allocates the surplus value, on the view that the state represents the workers, but there could be other entities that do that, e.g. worker cooperatives (or in theory, the "state" is a bundle of worker cooperatives organized in a certain way). ??
    I think the point a socialist might push is that the goal is not for the state to control but for the workers to control the use of the value they create.

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    1. On the labor theory that the surplus value belongs to the workers.

      It seems to me that this is the core notion that is common to socialists. (And also that hasn't any valid basis.) Who and how control is managed seems to be disputed, though (obviously) they want the control not to be in individual hands. For the ones who want laborer-control, I am not sure why they would object to the employee-owned corporations that already exist, and not urge merely that they become universal.

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    2. Urging that employee-owned corporations become universal is (as far as I understand it) actually quite a popular position among contemporary socialists. It's basically my position, too, or something like it. And yes, ficino is more or less correct about how socialists view the issue (again, as far as I can understand it - I'm not a theory bro).

      One small quibble, though - it's correct to say that we don't want the means of production to be in "individual" ownership in the sense of belonging to businessmen. But we do want each person to have access to them. You might say that we want economics to be managed democratically, rather than by "kings", if that metaphor makes sense.

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    3. @Tony and EXE: as to how decisions would be made in a worker-owned enterprise, I think the scene from Monty Python and the Holy Grail pokes fun at one kind of scenario, sc. endless wrangling among the workers' collective. But there can be endless wrangling and no end of meetings and useless emails etc in almost any structure, lol.
      As far as I understand it, the labor theory of surplus value is a cornerstone of socialist thought as many propound it. One might criticise it by arguing that "value" is not a function of the labor that went into producing the product as much as it is a function of what people are willing to give in exchange for that product.

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    4. As far as I understand it, the labor theory of surplus value is a cornerstone of socialist thought as many propound it.

      Right, that's my understanding.

      One might criticise it by arguing that "value" is not a function of the labor that went into producing the product as much as it is a function of what people are willing to give in exchange for that product.

      The value that an object has in a culture is always going to include a reflection of desire / demand for it, REGARDLESS of how it comes to be made available. The "making it available" usually (though perhaps not always?) includes a reflection of effort by someone who DOES the making it available. Thus usually price reflects demand and supply, both. And so normally the price does reflect the effort needed to make it available. That effort includes the work done to turn a raw material into a usable product, which means the price function includes as a variable the effort of that work. But it also includes the effort of the work to move the product from the assembly plant to the market, and also the effort that represents the prior work done of putting the raw materials in front of the laborer, and the prior work done of creating the tools that the laborer uses to refine the raw materials. The latter two JUST ARE the contributions of the investor / capital supplier - they amount to stored prior effort before the most recent laborer works on it.

      Why do the socialists ignore those inputs in the price function?

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    5. Urging that employee-owned corporations become universal is (as far as I understand it) actually quite a popular position among contemporary socialists.

      Good, good. You and I would get along with the Distributists, I guess.

      Ok, so what about a guy Bob who makes his own tools and starts putting out a product all by himself, without labor by others? Must he, too, incorporate, sell shares, and (by some mechanism) turn what was originally his own stuff into an employee-owned corporation? Will the system be rigged to forbid his working his own tools to produce his own products? Or will the system allow that this too is an example of an "employee-owned" business? Wherefore "democratic" decision making: is it 100% employee participation in every decision, or is it top-down monarchy with one decider of all things?

      And can he give it to his son when he wants to retire? What mechanism will be used to say no, the son cannot just "take over" a productive asset he didn't make?

      And Bob has a neighbor Bill who hasn't any tools or special skills, but would like to learn and is willing to subordinate his time and effort to Bob's direction to produce new goods using Bob's tools, and using Bob's supplies, (making more products than Bob could make on his own), is Bill the only just recipient of the price of those sold goods?

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    6. Your “Bob” is rapidly declining as a possible person, not because of Socialism but Capitalism. It’s one of the things that amuses me about being in the Auto industry-legions of highly skilled people who are so ideologically captured, they keep voting for the people that will ensure their skills mean nothing as they will have to subordinate themselves to private equity conglomerates and the like. This world of of “Bob” self-starting his own shop, for example, is rapidly dwindling and not a result of *anything* to do with Socialism but the same Republicans and policies these people keep voting for.

      It’s amusing watching you get apoplectic about Socialism when capitalism is making your premised man a non-entity. Be glad, for example, currently the ‘Right to Repair’ movement is not considered ‘woke.’ By your arguments, because manufacturers make the cars, they are fine to keep trying any and every means to make your ‘ownership’ NOT ownership, but Subscription. They put all the design effort into it after-all - why prevent them from also designing you out of fixing it? This is the level of argument I’m seeing from you.

      Watching people having to do backbreaking labor into their 70s because Healthcare costs make their salaries irrelevant- these same men, every year, due to cultural war reasons, go and vote for the people ensuring their lives are like this, swallowing up nonsense like you argue here.

      Look around, Tony.

      That premised “Bob” is a dying breed entirely related to Capital ( same damn reason jobs and manufacturing was off-shored btw). Let’s go ahead and premise some actual things going on in the world right now and show me how Capitalism is ‘saving’ it vs being the multiplier destroying it.

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    7. @Tony: I don't know enough to give a magisterial answer, but I would guess in a fuzzy way that Marx might have liked your example of Bob. Bob is not alienated from the product of his labor. He is his own worker cooperative of one! The opposition employer/employee, I would guess, would for the Marxist exist only under capitalism. Once there is socialism, the workers run the whole shebang. (I don't know how far Marx went to recognize the human tendency for a dysfunctional structure dominated by the "cool kids" to emerge when the group reaches a certain size.)

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    8. Wow, there are actually some really good comments here! I'm pleasantly surprised that this hasn't simply descended into tribalist mudslinging. Good job, everyone!

      As to the actual question; Tony, I think that Anon has got the gist of it. "Bob" isn't doing anything wrong, since he owns the tools he uses to make things and also owns all the profits from their creation, he is not alienated from his labor. In fact, creating a society where everyone could be like Bob would actually be the ideal. As to the question of economic democracy - democracy is a system of government, and governments only exist as ways to organize social life. Social life, in turn, only exists where different people interact with each other. It makes no sense to speak of either tyranny or democracy when only one person is involved, just like it makes no sense to ask what form of government a castaway on an uninhabited island is living under.

      As for inheritance, the question is a debated one among Socialists. I don't think it's necessary to take an all-or-nothing position on this. It's perfectly understandable that people want to pass things on to their descendants, however, the main problem that this can lead to is the accumulation of power and wealth into the hands of a small minority. Modern-day America is essentially the result of many centuries of this process, gradually leading to the present oligarchy. The main thing is to avoid the accumulation of Generational Wealth. Some might say that yes, he shouldn't be able to inherit the tools, others might say that it's fine so long as it doesn't lead to Generational Wealth significant enough to cause significant distortion in the broader political/economic system.

      I admit that I'm not personally well-read enough to give a sound answer to the question of whether Bill's behavior could be problematic. Certainly, if Bill wants to become an equal partner, I don't think most people would have a problem with that. However, allowing Bill to alienate his labor by working for a wage instead of for a proportional share of the wealth generated by his working together with Bob seems like it'd open the door to exploitation. Additionally, Bill should be able to have an equal say in the running of the business. If the two of them can't agree on things, then the enterprise isn't going to work to begin with.

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    9. Thank you, EXE, for a thoughtful answer. I will try to engage with equal thoughtfulness.

      Certainly, if Bill wants to become an equal partner, I don't think most people would have a problem with that. However, allowing Bill to alienate his labor by working for a wage instead of for a proportional share of the wealth generated by his working together with Bob seems like it'd open the door to exploitation.

      To a degree, I agree with this. But usually the devil is in the details, and two of the critical details are (a) initially Bill doesn't have any of the skills to turn out equally good products, his output is sub-par compared to Bob's. Often, during the initial period, his labor isn't even worth the cost of the materials he is working on (his effort is a net loss), and then for a while just barely a positive, but not enough for him to live on. In a FULLY equal, equitable arrangement, Bill would literally have to pay Bob for the use of his materials, and pay for the use of his tools, and live off of savings, while his abilities get up close to Bill's level, and THEN they would share the profits. But (again, usually) Bill is young and doesn't have the resources to pay Bob for those, Bill would either have to borrow to manage that, or Bob can agree to pay him a wage that is, in effect, a long-term investment for Bob on what might eventually pay off as a profitable investment in Bill. But might not. How is Bob's risk of loss on that equitably paid for?

      Additionally, Bill should be able to have an equal say in the running of the business.

      That's quite reasonable - when Bill has enough experience in the business. Before then, his ideas are far more likely to be wrong or at least naive in critical details.

      I have been around long enough to see first hand effective managers who are GOOD at organizational functions, and bad managers who either just go through the motions and rely on the system put in place by prior managers, or who muck up everything they put their hands on. It simply isn't true that everyone is equally capable of managing, and it never will be true. And it has never been true that, in a large enterprise with many parts and many operational units (whether military, business, or charity), you can succeed by just letting everyone direct themselves, you NEED organizational leadership. Those who fill that role inherently are exercising power over others, it inherently represents a condition of status, and it is inherently a situation ripe for exploitation (i.e. when the managers are the wrong type). Socialism can't do away with this constraint. The Distributists prefer to avoid the issue by (effectively) wishing ALL business be small, but that too seems implausible.

      Modern-day America is essentially the result of many centuries of this process, gradually leading to the present oligarchy.

      It's true that handed-down wealth represents problematic tendencies. Two other things are also true: (1) America, while it does HAVE this problem, has it LESS than many societies have had it, and (2) while there are plenty of examples of generational accumulation leading to oligarchical influence, there are also plenty of examples where such wealth has NOT done so - cases where the later generations dilute and squander the wealth and end up no different from everyone else. (Look up the Vanderbilts, as an example.) There are interesting countervailing pressures involved, and it takes some interesting dynamics to keep both wealth and influence past 4 generations.

      Interestingly, I have been arguing directly against those (usually Republicans) who protest the estate tax (they usually claim a "principled" position against it, but the claim is empty): once you have allowed for a base exempt amount that protects amounts needed for the family, there's no good objection against it, and it should unwind at least some of the generational accumulation problem.

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    10. Well, I'm not so sure that it's actually true that America has less of a problem with inherited wealth than many other societies, but even if it were, that wouldn't mean it wasn't still a serious problem. If literacy rates were down at 20%, I don't think it would be reasonable to respond by pointing out that some countries have even lower rates, do you?

      Secondly, while it is true that individual families within the oligarchy can mismanage and lose their wealth, that does not actually change the structure of society as a whole. That wealth doesn't get redistributed to the common folk, it typically gets absorbed into the portfolios of other oligarchic families. To use a Medieval metaphor, noble houses can rise and fall, but when they fall, the peasantry does not get their land, it is taken by other noble houses to make themselves more powerful. So the oligarch class as a whole can continue to grow more and more powerful even if individual members of it lose their influence and wealth. So long as the wealth remains owned by some oligarch or another, there has been no change in society as a whole, simply a transfer of wealth from one oligarch to another.

      Anyway, even if we don't get socialism, at the bare minimum we NEED massive wealth redistribution if you want the country to continue functioning. The smarter oligarchs, like Warren Buffet, understand this, and advocate for higher taxes on themselves. That's because they understand that the alternative to high taxes on the rich is the rich eventually being dragged to the guillotines.

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    11. The smarter oligarchs, like Warren Buffet, understand this, and advocate for higher taxes on themselves.

      I do not trust any of the super rich who claim this. Everyone of them could willingly CHOOSE to give their wealth to the government (at whatever level they choose) - or to others directly. They don't, because they what they think in practical terms doesn't match their theory.

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    12. Oh, I absolutely don't trust them either. It's virtue signalling, most likely. Though I will mention that the precise nature of the way that they skirt the taxation system makes it difficult for them to just give their wealth away. The ultra-wealthy typically don't "earn" any income in the strict sense, they instead own vast assets, which they use as collateral for large, low-interest loans which are liable for payment upon their deaths. They live off of this money for their own personal affairs, and assuming they've structured the loans properly, they can offset estate taxes and capital gains generated when your estate sells to cover those loans. Basically, it's the "taking out a new credit card to pay the old one" strategy, except they can actually get away with it due to preferential rates and having assets to back said loans. It's one giant inter-generational scam, it needs to be stopped, and it's not going to be stopped voluntarily.

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  17. We need an encyclical proclaiming the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church so we can start ruffling feathers, and force Roman Catholics to start defending the True Church instead of living like the Christians in Rev 3:13-16/

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    1. Why do you think that would help? The vast majority of Catholics think people like you are crazy. If you think that trying to bring the hammer down on "laxity" would produce good results, then you're delusional. If you try to actually enforce dogmas (especially the unpopular ones), you'll simply speed up the process of people leaving the Church.

      "Good! Get the lukewarmers out of here and let the REAL, TRUE Church set the world on fire!"

      Yes, please! By all means, make the Church even less relevant in public life! People like you are a blessing to atheists!

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    2. Since when is the notion of a One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church an "unpopular" dogma? It's such a basic fundamental principle.

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    3. To Bryan's point, many denominations besides Roman Catholic believe in One, Holy, Catholic or Universal, Apostolic church. They do not understand it as recognizing the Bishop of Rome as the Vicar of Christ, but they agree that the Church has all four of the attributes in the creedal statements.

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    4. Hey Bryan, I was getting at the fact that if you try to start enforcing "We're the Only True Church and you have to live by all the Rules and Sexual Ethics or you're Going To Hell", then you're gonna be really disappointed by the results you actually get from doing that. You can pretend that won't happen as much as you like, but outside of your echo chambers, such positions are NOT popular. The Church only manages to sidestep this issue because of widespread non-enforcement of those unpopular dogmas (say, the forbiddance of contraception, to name one example).

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    5. Newsflash to EXE - 100% of Catholics sin. You may not have noticed this, or drawn the obvious conclusion: none of the Church’s moral dogmas are “popular”.

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    6. Gee, I didn't know that truth needs to somehow be "popular" in order have credibility. The grievances held against the Church for its teaching on relations is hardly a new phenomenon.

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  18. Thank you. A comprehensive review and explication of the Encyclical.

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  19. Have a read of this article from the Spanish daily El Pais 4/6/26. https://elpais.com/opinion/2026-06-04/leon-xiv-contra-el-antipapa-thiel.html

    Peter Thiel wanted an audience with Pope Leo earlier this year. The Pope refused to see him. Thiel wanted to tell the Pope that it's either "with us or against us" as far as his high tech lobby is concerned. Thiel then spoke at a conference, eleven days before the start of the War against Iran, warning the Pope not to interfere with Trump's policies. It's great to have a Pope that ignores those threats and stands up against the powers that be. Gregory VII would have been happy.

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  20. It’ll be a good day when Catholicism as a whole advances in the direction outlined by the Pope than the unregulated, freemarket, Prosperity gospel lies of modern Christianity. As I have said before, the everyday people that were enslaved and oppressed by this religion practice it better than its nominal and institutional leaders. I see better actions from those under the boot than the people trying to justify their ostentatious wealth with it. I’m disgusted, by the way, with Tony’s screed to turn prudent critique of wealth concentration and how it affects people into envy. Shameful, but alas, the common refrain of the laissez fare types whose only purpose, when it comes to the Bible, is to distort it to support endless greed.

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  21. Thank you for this analysis, it was really helpful and gave me relief about many concerns raised by all the criticisms (sadly I read those, but still not read the encyclical, a lack that now I will happily correct). Anyway can I ask you to address the criticism that was most troubling to me? It is about the use of language, especially in very important sentences, like the shift from defining social teaching like a "corpus" of genuine doctrine (JPII, CA, 5) to a "process of shared discernment" (25). According to the italian critics I read, this is just a sign of the infiltration of the ambiguous language of sinodality into the magisterium. To me this is not really problematic but I have to admit that this strikes me as another concession to those people who become hysterical if the Church speaks boldly and openly, without having to apologize every time she proposes something as truth.

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  22. This post is a much-needed clarification. Thank you so much, Ed.

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  23. The texts i've been reading on this encyclical are showing fascinating stuff on it and yours is no exception, Professor, very nice piece.

    The encyclical is a very good document than ought to influence catholic social teaching a lot and your analysis in the more social aspects of it does explain and expand the text, being more than just a exercise on "how we can read this in a orthodox way?" That sadly was necessarily common before.

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    1. Talmid, You haven't posted here in a while

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  24. Thank you for this blog post. I think this encyclical is indeed touching some relevant issues and potentially more interesting for the general public than most encyclicals within the last 50 years or so.

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  25. "Those in hell are loved by God."

    God sends people to hell because he unconditionally loves them.

    Great mindset!

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    1. No, they send themselves to hell. Ever read Dante? Besides, hell is a much nicer place for the damned than Heaven.

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    2. The alternative you would offer? To hell with justice!

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    3. From the song "And When I Die" by Blood Sweat and Tears
      "I can swear there ain't no Heaven / But I pray there ain't no Hell"

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    4. "Ever read Dante?"

      Dante is canon now, apparently? Huh. That's weird. Didn't know Inferno was part of the Bible. Also, this is very, very obviously NOT what the Bible portrays. God is very clearly portrayed as a JUDGE *inflicting* the sentence of Hell on sinners. That's the plain meaning of the text. "They send themselves to Hell" is nothing more than an apologetic renegotiation of the text in order to try and soften this grotesque teaching.

      "But there would be no justice if there was no Hell!"

      Uh, no? For one thing, the idea of infinite punishment is inherently unjust, because inherently disproportionate. No crime is infinite, so to give any crime an infinite punishment is unjust. Perhaps you could take this tack if you believe in a Hell that's basically just Purgatory, as some Universalists do, but not if you believe in Eternal Conscious Torment.

      Secondly, even if we grant that fact, this still doesn't solve the fact that "God loves you so much that He sent you to eternal torture" is an unbelievably messed-up and twisted worldview. Maybe you've warped your minds to the point that you can't see it, but to any reasonable person, "love" means "cares for the wellbeing of". There is no sense in which condemning someone to eternal conscious torture is good for their wellbeing, even potentially. Scholasticism may, if it wishes, come up with esoteric definitions of "love" that mean something else, but then your words are meaningless, indeed this is the primary criticism I made in my older posts when I complained that Classical Theist God is Lovecraftian - his Goodness and Love are things radically different from our understandings of those terms, to the point where they might look like things that every human alive would call monstrously evil.

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    5. Dante knew his medieval theology. And if you in fact had ever read Dante, you’d know that he clearly states that the damned rush to their punishments of their own accord under divine justice.

      Your second paragraph 1) is a tired rehash of long-dismissed arguments and 2) seems to think that the damned would prefer it in heaven.

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    6. @EXE:

      ""They send themselves to Hell" is nothing more than an apologetic renegotiation of the text in order to try and soften this grotesque teaching."

      God is indeed a judge and Hell is indeed a judgment -- this is clearly taught and cannot be denied. But there is also a sense in which "people send themselves to Hell", your stupid, ignorant polemics notwithsanding.

      "No crime is infinite, so to give any crime an infinite punishment is unjust."

      No, there are indeed crimes that are infinite in one aspect or other. And even if there weren't, your assumption that the punishments of Hell are entirely due to their sins on earth is just wrong. Whoever is in Hell rejects God, rejecting God deserves punishment (and in a very real sense it is its own punishment), therefore they could not leave Hell even if God pardoned their sins here on Earth (against their will). At this point you could retort that destroying them, something that God could certainly do, would be "better", but that is, again, just wrong on plain metaphysical grounds.

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    7. OK then, Anon, you are just outright stating that Dante is canon now. Good that we got that straightened out. When are we putting that into the Bible?

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    8. >>And even if there weren't, your assumption that the punishments of Hell are entirely due to their sins on earth is just wrong

      Wow, really? And here I was thinking that doing bad things was what sent you to Hell! Silly me! Guess that Jesus guy had it backwards this whole time!

      >No, there are indeed crimes that are infinite in one aspect or other.

      I eagerly await your provision of evidence to this effect!

      >Whoever is in Hell rejects God, rejecting God deserves punishment (and in a very real sense it is its own punishment), therefore they could not leave Hell even if God pardoned their sins here on Earth (against their will).

      Actually, I just called up Satan to check, and he told me it doesn't work like that at all. Turns out people actually get sent to Hell completely at random because God is kind of a jerk. Gotta check your sources, dude.

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    9. “OK then, Anon, you are just outright stating that Dante is canon now. Good that we got that straightened out. When are we putting that into the Bible?“

      A lazy and ridiculous comment so profoundly misinformed of the Catholic theology of tradition I can only tell you to have AI explain to you what’s wrong with it.

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    10. “Oh I’m such a good-faith interlocutor! Why are you guys so meeean!”

      Exhibit 16345

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    11. Always good to incorporate infantile mockery into your argument. Totally makes it more credible.

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    12. Merely summarizing your comments

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    13. @EXE:

      "And here I was thinking that doing bad things was what sent you to Hell! Silly me! Guess that Jesus guy had it backwards this whole time!"

      Are you intentionally misunderstanding what I said or you are just this intellectually dishonest?

      "I eagerly await your provision of evidence to this effect!"

      I did not argue for it, just like you did not argue for your own position. I just told you of one assumption that your opponents would not agree.

      "Actually, I just called up Satan to check, and he told me it doesn't work like that at all. Turns out people actually get sent to Hell completely at random because God is kind of a jerk. Gotta check your sources, dude."

      I am sorry for mistaking you for a serious interlocutor.

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    14. @Evan:

      It is not an intellectual problem -- it very rarely is -- but a spiritual one. The arguments, such as they are, must still be responded but true conversion hinges on other, far more important things.

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    15. @grodrigues, Very true. Well said.

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    16. "I did not argue for it, just like you did not argue for your own position. I just told you of one assumption that your opponents would not agree."

      You were the one claiming that there are crimes that are infinite. If, instead, you are retreating to the mere claim that "I BELIEVE that there are crimes that are infinite", then fine, but nobody else is required to accept your belief as being true. Unless you can provide a valid reason why I should believe there are infinite crimes, then it remains an unproven assertion. And no, your favorite tactic of trying to swap the burden of proof won't work here. It is not evident that there are infinite crimes, and so it is not incumbent on me to prove that they don't exist, just like it isn't incumbent on someone who disbelieves in dragons to prove that they aren't real (unless a dragon-believer can provide some actual evidence first). Not all claims have equal prior probabilities.

      "I am sorry for mistaking you for a serious interlocutor."

      Aww, c'mon Roddy, where's your whimsy? I know you types get really upset when someone refers to your mythology as mythology, rather than taking it seriously on its own terms. But to be serious for a moment, actually, I was making a point - my claim that Satan gave me information about the true nature of Hell is no more implausible than your belief that God appeared to some people 2,000 years ago and gave them information about Hell. In fact, mine is actually less implausible, because yours is not even based on a direct claim, nor even on the anonymous books about that claim written decades later; but on centuries of philosophical *speculation* based on those books, and also about earlier speculation. The NT does not contain a coherent doctrine of Hell, it contains many different views based around the tropes of Isaiah and other prophets. All the stuff you say about the nature of Hell and those who go there is speculation based on speculation based on hearsay. There is no way to confirm any of it whatsoever. To simply treat it as if it were true is ludicrous. You can say "it's part of My Faith", if you want, but then your claims can only hold water to people who have already chosen to adhere to the same doctrines that you have chosen to adhere to.

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    17. @EXE:

      "You were the one claiming that there are crimes that are infinite."

      No, what I said -- quite explicitly -- was that you made an assumption (namely that there are no infinite crimes) that your opponents would not agree with. And even the most cursory knowledge of Catholic theology would lead you to understand how one goes about showing it.

      "It is not evident that there are infinite crimes, and so it is not incumbent on me to prove that they don't exist, just like it isn't incumbent on someone who disbelieves in dragons to prove that they aren't real (unless a dragon-believer can provide some actual evidence first). Not all claims have equal prior probabilities."

      "Not evident" and "not have equal prior probabilities" are meaningless statements, absent having established some common agreed-upon ground. There is no such common agreed-upon ground so this is nothing but a trite of a piffle. Burden of proof is a juridical notion; this is not a court room; it would be a discussion in hashing out the truth, but you are certainly not here to find the truth. "Dragon-believer"? Really? I must have regressed in time and am now back sparring with a new atheist retard, surely as a punishment for my sins.

      "Aww, c'mon Roddy, where's your whimsy?"

      Oh please, you have the grace and wit of a dead turnip. And in every discussion there are red lines everyone sets up. Mine is at blasphemy against the Lord. So you do not find ol' Roddy "whimsical"? Do I lack "sense of humor"? What an insufferable, nasty piece of shit you are.

      "But to be serious for a moment, actually, I was making a point - my claim that Satan gave me information about the true nature of Hell is no more implausible than your belief that God appeared to some people 2,000 years ago and gave them information about Hell."

      No you are not making a serious point, neither are you a serious interlocutor here to discuss anything whatsoever, you are just being your usual obnoxious, idiotic self. One wonders about the sort of miserable life you must lead to get your kicks from railing and antagonizing the local Catholic comentariat. If God does not exist (or God did not reveal Himself 2000 years ago or whatever), then Hell, as Catholics conceive it, does not exist. That much is obvious; but as a criticism is also uninsteresting and vapid. You were trying an argument by contradiction, and that is what I targeted. What you find "implausible" or not is completely irrelevant.

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  26. The OT allows the Israelites to take slaves from the surrounding nations.

    The NT doesn't condemn slavery, neither did Jesus Christ. St. Paul commands slaves to obey their masters in all obedience.

    Canon III of the Council of Gangra 325 A.D., "If any one shall teach a slave, under pretext of piety, to despise his master and to run away from his service, and not to serve his own master with good-will and all honour, let him be anathema".

    Nowhere in the Deposit of Faith is slavery condemned. The Apostolic Church, true Catholicism/Orthodoxy, does NOT condemn slavery. What is going on is that the Magisterium has taken up humanism and gave it a Catholic face --which is heresy.

    The canons of the Council of Gangra were approved by succeeding Ecumenical Councils are therefore valid and legitimate. You can't nullify the Consistent teaching of The Church with Humanism. Maybe Catholics need to read the ancient canons instead of following after Renaissance Humanism.

    Maybe Catholics ought to read what

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    1. Sigh. What an asinine comment. Go read Newman, Lindsay.

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    2. Actually, go read read Dulles’ review of Noonan in First Things.

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    3. Wow, I didn't expect to see anyone here who was so straightforwardly honest about it. Congratulations(?) on being an intellectually-consistent Catholic. Now, get out of modern society, you Bronze Age savage. Even your own Church has acknowledged that slavery was an abomination, even if it took them a long time to do so. You, on the other hand, only care about your own right-wing, authoritarian, and social-dominance oriented identity politics. You need to grow the Hell up and do so, so much better.

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    4. Ahahahaha. What a joker! Go read Maritain (actually, Maritain addresses the question of slavery in The Rights of Man and Natural Law, but that assumes you’re a good-faith interlocutor and will read authors with whom you disagree).

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    5. How would Maritain save your position, exactly? Sure, he was against (most forms of) slavery, and I am *glad* that he re-oriented the Catholic intellectual tradition away from being pro-slavery. But you can't escape the fact that his position was in fact a radical *break* from the understanding that the Church had taken since pretty much its earliest days. The Hebrew Bible unambiguously condones slavery, including chattel slavery. The Gospels are fine with slavery existing. Paul is fine with slavery existing. Aquinas is fine with slavery existing. Maritain was, in fact, a modern man re-negotiating the text and the tradition in order to bring it more closely in line with morality. How does any of that make sense if Church doctrine can never change? If you got everything right the first time, how can it be that your beliefs need to be reformed? And if you didn't get everything right the first time, how can you say you won't need to change in the future?

      So far, I've seen no attempt to give even the most basic response to any of my questions. You're relying on making demands that I read X, Y, and Z books or else I'm a nasty, bad faith TROLL who can simply be dismissed with a sneer. Of course, I don't expect to be able to convince YOU, so I don't really care whether you listen to me or not. But let the observer note that my interlocutor has continually refused to do even the smallest amount of work to make or defend his position, and has always resorted instead to retreating behind his Wall of Required Reading. Certainly there can be situations where "you just don't know enough, read X" is a valid response, but usually this occurs when one side simply does not have the technical knowledge to understand an argument being made. Since my interlocutor has never actually made an argument, this can't be what's happening here. Instead, he's hoping to simply use this as a kind of shield or smokescreen; to raise the difficulty of responding to him so high that I won't be able to do it and he can feel secure in his own faith. Besides, given his clear animosity towards me, I have no reason to think he would suddenly begin arguing in good faith were I to do so. If I *did* read Maritain, what assurance would I have that he wouldn't simply turn around and say "nuh-huh! You're lying!" or "You didn't understand it because you're stooopid!"?

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    6. You can go back well before Maritain to find the tradition “re-oriented” away from slavery, up to and including St. Paul.

      I will brush away your trite remarks about “church doctrine never changing” with St. Newman’s “to live is to change,” etc. Newman and, above him, Marin-Sola are the masters of that subject. The only other thing I will add on this head is that the Church’s social doctrine, of which the teaching on slavery forms a part, is more fluid owing to its greater proximity to social forms.

      Anyhoo, since you seem to be in a fog about this matter: the Church has never, ever condoned *chattel* slavery, defined strictly as an institution in which the slave has no rights. Aquinas may have condoned slavery, but he was clear that slaves possessed rights. Over time, the Church extended its ban on chattel slavery to more and more forms of involuntary servitude which it had previously tolerated as part of the social order. It is a simple distinction.

      As to the rest of your piffle - and it is piffle - I have neither the time nor the patience to do your homework for you. You come here clearly ignorant of so much and yet have the temerity to cavil. You are not a polite interlocutor. If you were, you would gratefully have accepted suggestions for further reading, since books are a better medium for learning than comboxes.

      We live in the age of AI. If you cannot be bothered to inquire of ChatGPT to see if you have your opponent’s theory correct, why should we assume you come in good faith?

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  27. It is funny to see people who never worked a day on any farm to make so rude a comments. The Lack of Phronesis in modern man, academia. clergy is really amazing--these people really do not know how the real world works.

    I spent a summer making hay with a scythe up in the Swiss Italian Alps. That is all I did for 10 hours a day, seven days a week. I also milked goats at the same time but what I didn't do, was make my bread, my wine, my clothes, spin, weave, make leather, or smelt iron for a new scythe. All I mostly did was cut hay.

    One had to turn it over to every day, and then haul it on our backsides to the barn and stamp it down.

    I lived with no running water, no electricity.

    Back 2000 years ago, people had to draw water, collect firewood, butcher animals. feed and water animals--all too much work for just two people.

    Who made the vellum for books when one has to make hay or cheese?

    It is the commentators above who couldn't make it on their own in the wild. Slavery made leisure possible so other pursuits of higher life can be had. The detractors above show a total lack of awareness of Life and what it takes.

    What do you think angels are? If Slavery is wrong, then it is wrong for God to have slaves, which are His angels. This is how stupid Catholics have become. When you attack slavery, one is attacking God. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were all Slave owners.

    And this is the importance of Arete. Arete is the first stepping stone, the must have in order to do philosophy. And part of Arete is phronesis. It seems a lot of people are missing Phronesis.

    Slavery is only the extension of the family to accomplish work. It takes a community to accomplish the work needed to be done. Slavery made civilization possible. Who kept the farms running while the FFofA went off to fight the British? Who made THAT possible?

    No Arete, (No phronesis), makes for bad judgements.

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    1. >>>"Hence the consensus that developed in Catholic moral theology is that penal and indentured servitude are simply too gravely morally hazardous ever to be licit in practice. Better flatly to reject all forms of servitude as incompatible with justice and charity.<<<

      Indentured servitude is "incompatible with justice and charity"???

      What is Military Service----BUT Indentured Servitude!!! See, this is how dumb Catholic Moral theologians are! No Phronesis (i.e. commonsense). Catholic Moral theologians just condemned Military service!

      All military service is a type of indentured servitude MUCH WORSE than chattel slavery because in the military one can lose his life.

      God is a Slave Holder--the angels are the extension of His Family in order to do work that He needs to get done.

      Humanism is NOT Christian; is not Christian morality. Humanism is heresy. Humanism erupted in the Renaissance with the introduction of the Kabbala. Pico della Mirondola was a "Christian kabbalist". That is where he got his motivation from--the Kabala. The Kabala emphasized this "image of God" thingy. One part of the definition of heresy is the **Overemphasis** of a Church teaching. All truth exists in the Golden Mean. The Natural Law guides All things.

      Humanism is a heresy. And all the detractors above are Marxists, thus apostasy.

      Delete
    2. Your summer sounds like a form of "slumming." I did manual labor too, all through college and beyond. Consider being an enslaved field hand for life. When slavery is reinstituted, you can become one of the enslaved field hands and then write on the Prof's blog about how you're in your happy place cuz your masters get benefits from your labor.

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    3. Wheeler:

      God is a Slave Holder--the angels are the extension of His Family in order to do work that He needs to get done.

      Humanism is NOT Christian; is not Christian morality. Humanism is heresy.


      Christ: " I will not now call you servants: for the servant knoweth not what his lord doth. But I have called you friends: because all things whatsoever I have heard of my Father, I have made known to you." (John 15:15)

      Bruce the Great White Shark (paraphrased): Friends don't enslave friends.

      We become members of God's own household, children of the Father, heirs to the kingdom, by baptism. We are not slaves.

      Delete
  28. Asinine rubbish. And I’ve spent plenty of time in agricultural labor.

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  29. What do you think angels are? If Slavery is wrong, then it is wrong for God to have slaves, which are His angels.

    This is how stupid Wheeler has become. God gives to each angel its being AND it's power to act in each individual action (as He does to us). The angels cannot accomplish anything God couldn't do without them, better, and God doesn't need angels in any sense (nor us). The good angels (like good humans) serve God willingly, as participants in the ordered good of the universe: Christ calls his apostles "friends" because that's what they are, not slaves.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "All military service is a type of indentured servitude MUCH WORSE than chattel slavery because in the military one can lose his life."
      "God is a Slave Holder--the angels are the extension of His Family in order to do work that He needs to get done."

      I wonder how Dr Feser can publish this garbage?

      Delete
    2. Angels do not have free will. (Standard Catholic dogma) Their whole existence is do the Will of the Father which He appointed each caste to specific functions, such as the Cherubim, Seraphim to shine His Glory, the Archangels as the leadership of the heavenly host. Guardian angels appointed to every human soul, regular angels as His soldiers, and the other castes for other numerous tasks that have not been revealed to us.

      What do you think Lucifer did? He led a slave rebellion. He was effeminate, and his effeminacy led to his Pride which fueled his rebellion. He lacked Arete, esp the virtue of sophrosyne.

      It is told that Lucifer envied our position. God gave us Free Will that the angels do not have--thus the jealousy.

      The problem of my detractors is that they are all beholden to Americanism. As a Trad Catholic my loyalty is to the Old Order, to Arete; I reject the whole Americanist ideology of liberalism, anti-authoritarianism, freedom. Many of my detractors, as Americanists, have adopted Liberalism which is actually Gnosticism.

      As Jesus said, "My Yoke is easy, My Burden lite".

      "We are NOT here to give the laws,...but in order to OBEY the commands of the gods". 
                      ~  Plutarch, priest at the Doric Greek temple to Apollo at Delphi. 

      I'm yoked to Christ, to Righteousness, in a sense a slave. Slavery is an institution. Institutions are not evil, men's actions can be. Man is the problem, not institutions.

      Delete
    3. "All military service is a type of indentured servitude MUCH WORSE than chattel slavery because in the military one can lose his life."
      Yes, we must abolish the military.




      Delete
    4. Well that’s your problem. You’re a “trad”. “Trad”-ism is not orthodoxy. So that’s the origin of your bizarre takes on angelic will (ironic for a “trad” to apparently be ignorant of Dante), Americanism, etc.

      Delete
    5. The OP article consistently mentions "the pope says".

      That is not how Catholics start. Catholic thought begins on the Deposit of Faith and then the Rule of Faith coined by St. Vincent Lerins, "What has been believed everywhere, throughout time, from the beginning."

      Orthodoxy has never officially called slavery evil. In the last twenty years or so, many Orthodox are aping liberal ideology though.

      The Gangra's canon: "If anyone shall teach a slave, under pretext of piety, to despise his master and to run away from his service, and not to serve his own master with good-will and all honour, let him be anathema".
      answers BOTH the Deposit of Faith and the Rule of Faith.

      And all this talk in Catholicism about condemning slavery is just another factor in the schism between East and Western Apostolic Christianity. And the Orthodox are right in their charges against Catholicism, is that Catholicism is LEAVING the roots, the Deposit of Faith and the Orthodox complain that the Catholic Church seems to abrogate or ignore the canons of the Ecumenical councils.

      Anonymous above says I must read Newman or Dulles. NO I DON"T. I have a Canon that abrogates any innovations, novelities in the matter. Humanism, human reasonings do not abrogate Ecumenical councils!!!

      As Catholics like to say "The pope has spoken, causa finita"---Well, with the Ecumenical Councils picking up the decrees of the Council of Gangra--"The Church has spoken, Causa Finita"!!!! There is NO debate to be had, no discussions--Just Obey it.

      Catholicism is NOT above the Ecumenical Councils and Popes are NOT free to abrogate any ancient canon! How about some RESPECT.

      One aspect of Christianity lost in time, is the idea, value of RESPECT. The whole story of the Fall of Man, is Man's Lack of Respect for Law. And when one looks at the 10 Commandments--what is at the basis of them all???? RESPECT. We are to respect God's Ways and Laws, and we are To respect the teachings of our Christian forefathers---the Ecumenical Councils.

      The consistent witness of the Orthodox Church and the Gangra's canon on slavery satisfies Vincent's Rule of Faith. We are NOT to abrogate the Rule of Faith nor the principle of the Deposit of Faith. Slavery is NOT morally wrong, or evil, -- That is the consistent Teaching of The Faith.

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    6. Yours is a ridiculous standard, as alien to the faith as flat-eartherism is from real science. Jam your fingers in your ears at Dulles and Sullivan and wail “I’m a real Catholic” until you get hoarse; doesn’t change a thing.

      Delete
    7. Further, just to set the record straight: chattel slavery is intrinsically evil. Lesser forms of slavery are inadmissible until current circumstances.

      Delete
    8. I have heard of Gen Z males, usually incels, who are in thrall to Putin and who become attracted to Russian Orthodoxy - in which there is more than one ecclesiastical body claiming legitimacy. Such a strange phenomenon but for the strangeness of our times.

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    9. To Anonymous, the canon of Gangra does refer to chattel slavery! So you are making things up. You're a humanist. And to fincino, I'm 65 years old so I'm not Gen Z. Baptized and raised Catholic and still Catholic today, I have also engaged with Orthodoxy over many years; I know a lot about Orthodoxy; Orthodoxy is one half of Apostolic Christianity; and Catholics think that they are the only one; the Orthodox were never schismatics but our brothers in The Faith.

      St. Vincent of Lérins (Latin: Vincentius Lerinensis; died c. 445) was a Gallic monk and theologian from Gaul (modern France) who is venerated in the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Anglican Communion. St. Vincent of Lerins was born and lived under the Catholic Patriarchate so what are Catholics complaining about???

      But what is going on with the detractors here in this thread is that they are making God into their OWN image! They are judging God.

      In Isaiah, God says this:

      >>> For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.

      >>>9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

      All these detractors can't handle God and are creating a God to their own liking!!!! Which means they are committing idolatry.

      Moreover, these people are putting God on Trial--judging God to their human sentimentalities. The Old Testament shows us a true part of God. The Old Testament is not humanist.

      I accept God for who He is. God is his own person. There is only One God and that is how He is. When you attack Scripture, you are rejecting God!

      Phronesis is translated as Practical Wisdom which is true. God is not an idealist, He is Practical. Part of Practical Wisdom, Phronesis, is Commonsense. Christianity abrogates neither--but you people do. The Institution of Slavery is about Practical Wisdom.

      Do not make God conform to you. We are to conform ourselves to God, not the other way around.

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    10. You are a heretic, ignorant and disdainful of the mind of the Church. The old Catholic Encyclopedia alone rips your theories a new one.

      Delete
    11. I couldn't possibly think you understand the meaning of "heretic" when you don't understand the meaning of "canon".

      A 'canon' is a canon, is a canon. Do you understand the meaning and the authority of a Canon??? You're intransigence in not respecting the Ecumenical councils tells me that you are outside of The Church. The Church is partly defined by the Canons of the Ecumenical councils. If you don't acknowledge that Ecumenical Councils tells me that you are NOT a part of the "One Holy Catholic APOSTOLIC Church".

      An entry in the Catholic Encyclopedia does NOT abrogate canons of Ecumenical Councils.

      I believe you need to retake English 101 because you certainly do not understand words.

      Can we have a semblance of Sophistication for I believe you are confusing things--As Christians we may not want to engage in slavery--that is fine and dandy. Many Christians do not want to participate in the institution. Fine. But it is another thing to call it evil or immoral when CLEARLY that is NOT in the Deposit of Faith.

      It is quite funny to see Catholics call themselves Infallible, that the Magisterium is infallible, that Pope Leo XIV's encyclical is Infallible when Catholics across the board are IGNORANT of Ecumenical canons that define the operation, thought of The Church.

      Are you guys really Apostolic? or is Catholicism made on the run?

      Delete
    12. I think you need to take Theology 101 since you are so clearly ignorant of how to interpret the canons of a non-ecumenical council.

      Delete
    13. Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Ser. II, Vol. XIV:
      The Canons of the Councils of Ancyra, Gangra, Neocæsarea, Antioch and Laodicea, which Canons were Accepted and Received by the Ecumenical Synods.: Synodical Letter of the Council of Gangra.

      The title of this letter which I read a long time ago, states that these canons were taken up by the Ecumenical Councils.

      https://st-takla.org/books/en/ecf/214/2140110.html

      This letter ends with this sentence: "And if any one will not submit to the said decrees, he shall be anathematized as a heretic, and excommunicated, and cast out of the Church; and it will behove the bishops to observe a like rule in respect of all who may be found with them."

      Anyone who does not SUBMIT is anathematized and a heretic!!! It seems that you Anonymous are in trouble. Big Trouble.

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    14. The First Canon of the Fourth Ecumenical Council, Chalcedon, reads as follows: “We
      have judged it right that the canons of the Holy Fathers made in every synod even until
      now, should remain in force.” And the Council in Trullo, in its second canon, has enumer-
      ated these synods in the following words. “We set our seal to all the rest of the canons which have been established by our holy and blessed fathers, that is to say by the 318 God-inspired fathers who met at Nice, and by those who met at Ancyra, and by those who met at Neocæsarea, as well as by those who met at Gangra: in addition to these the canons adopted by those who met at Antioch in Syria, and by those who met at Laodicea in Phrygia; moreover by the 150 fathers who assembled in this divinely kept and imperial city, and by the 200 who
      were gathered in the metropolis of Ephesus, and by the 630 holy and blessed fathers who
      met at Chalcedon,” etc., etc.

      Yes, the Fourth Ecumenical Council. The Very first canon. Gangra was picked up and authorized and accepted and taught to the Whole Church!!!


      Delete
    15. 4rth Ecumenical Council. 1st Canon:

      1.

      We pronounce it just and right that the Canons promulgated by the Holy Fathers, in each and every Council down to the present time, continue in full force and effect.

      https://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0835/_P15.HTM

      That includes regional councils.

      Delete
    16. You went through all that trouble to not actually present any arguments. Leave trad world and read some good sound theology. You seem painfully unaware that doctrine develops. Don’t accept it? Then you’re in, shall we say, “Big Trouble”.

      Delete
    17. Except that Ecumenical Councils also declared in certain cases that the teachings of some regional council or synod was condemned as heretical: the 451 Council of Chalcedon condemned the regional Synod of Oak and the regional second Council of Ephesus, and the 2nd Council of Nicaea of 787 condemned the regional council of Hieria.

      Hence the teaching Church has always held that local or regional councils are not absolutely protected from error, and obviously they didn't mean to apply the "continue in full force and effect" to the very councils they condemned!

      Delete
    18. Anonymous, you are grasping at straws to wiggle out from just plain accepting Gangra's canons.

      First off, you are READING BACK into history *Modern* Catholic thought, the denying of regional councils, into the Church Fathers that did NOT have that opinion!!! You have to accept the value system of the time--and they made NO distinction. Truth is Truth, whether Ecumenical or not. The Church accepts Truth--where ever it comes from.

      The 4rth Council states "EACH and EVERY" -- What don't you get? Those are the qualifiers--not "regional". And when they did that --- they Ecumenicalized, "made official", made ecumenical, canons from lesser and regional councils.

      The Quinisext Council in 692 reaffirmed the 4th Ecumenical Council; it specifically upheld the Synod of Gangra!
      https://www.intratext.com/IXT/ENG0835/_P23.HTM
      Please DO read the interpretation under the canon.

      In the 4rth Ecumenical Council, over 500 bishops confirmed all the previous councils including Gangra. Are we to suppose there Anonymous that the original 14 bishops of Gangra and the 500 bishops later had no theology? That 300 years after the Gangra Synod, that the bishops of the Quinisext also confirmed the righteousness of the Synod of Gangra.

      These councils confirm St. Vincent of Lerins dictum of The Faith, "What has been believed everywhere, at all times, from the beginning".

      The 4rth was held in 451 AD. The Synod of Oak did not produce any canons. And my Microsoft AI said:

      >>>It issued the Chalcedonian Definition and 28 canons, but it did not review or condemn the Synod of the Oak.

      Conclusion
      There is no historical record of the Council of Chalcedon condemning the Synod of the Oak. The two were unrelated events separated by over 40 years, with the Council of Chalcedon<<<

      This is the kicker---the 4th approved All councils before it that produced canons--the Synod of Oak produced no canons.

      Canon #4 at the 4rth Ecumenical Council "A slave, however, can not enter the monastic life without the consent of his master."

      The Robber Council--produced NO Canons. So the 1st Canon of the 4th Ecumenical Council STILL stands!!! The 1st Canon SPECIFICALLY states "CANONS" not councils!!!! Your argument has no legs.

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    19. I’m not grasping at anything, besides how to respond to the ecclesial equivalent of a flat-earther. You clearly have never bothered to read anything ever written by anyone on the development of doctrine or the interpretation of magisterial documents. So you are welcome to, Lear-like, howl in impotent rage about whatever exactly it is you’re caterwauling about, while I and the rest of the Catholic Church ignore you.

      Delete
    20. From Newman's Contents:
      Section 1. First Note of a genuine Development of an Idea: Preservation of its Type
      Section 2. Second Note: Continuity of its Principles
      Section 3. Third Note: Its Power ofAssimilation
      Section 4. Fourth Note: Its Logical Sequence
      Section 5. Fifth Note: Anticipation of its Future
      Section 6. Sixth Note: Conservative Action upon its Past
      Section 7. Seventh Note: Its Chronic Vigour

      Anonymous, your whole argument of development of doctrine as pertains to slavery is misplaced--for the VERY first teaching is "Preservation of Type". Turning Slavery into an evil and immorality is NOT Preservation of Type--but total rejection of the teaching of the Deposit of Faith. 180^ turn. That is not Preservation.

      >>>Continuity of Principle. THAT is NOT what it is going on! Your objective in declaring slavery as an evil--when it was condoned in both Scripture and in Ecumenical Canons is NOT Continuity of Principle.

      So claiming that all of what Pope Leo is doing is "Development of Doctrine" even goes against Newman's own procedures, methodology! NONE of your Novelty is in line with Newman's prescriptions.

      Humanism is a heresy:
      https://www.truecatholicfaith.com/faq/what-is-the-heresy-of-humanism-and-why-is-it-dangerous

      "Humanism is not simply a mistaken philosophy—it is a rival religion."

      Delete
    21. Next, adding to the forms of slavery, penal slavery, indentured servitude, chattel slavery, military service, one needs to add Serfdom; serfdom is a type of slavery; a slavery tied to the land. Serfdom existed THROUGHOUT Christendom!!! Serfdom existed throughout Medieval Christian societies, not once being condemned. Christians practiced Serfdom without any condemnation from The Church whatsoever.

      What needs to be condemned is that Islam used Slavery for Sex, Sexual Slavery. They enslaved women for the sole purposes of sexual use--that is Immoral and evil.

      Let me explain God here. WORK. God wants WORK to be done. In Genesis, God says He put man into the garden to "Cultivate and Keep"---Work and Guard. (the term 'keep' in the Septuagint is "phylassen", which is a military term.) That is Why He made us (ontop of just bringing us into being.)

      In the Parable of the Five Talents, God gives out Talents--and the people given five and two went out and doubled the Master's money--but the one that buried it and returned it the same--was cursed and punished!

      What this all tells me is that God is ABOUT WORK. Get things done. Improve things. That is why we see that God motivated the English to America and the Indians were suppressed and shrunk--because they did NOT improve the land--the English did. And the English did that thru slavery.

      God is not only a Man of War, of Mercy, of Love, but also the God of WORK. Slavery BENEFITTED societies on a grand scale!!!

      And now one can see that in God's Wisdom, this canon of the Council of Gangra is being used by God today as a STUMBLING BLOCK--to be used to crush and make liberals kill (spiritually) themselves--they have removed themselves from The Church and thus salvation. The Slavery Canon weeds out the Liberal, the Gnostic, the Humanist!!! THAT is the Exactly the purpose of the Synod of Gangra--stopping Gnosticism, Liberalism and the Sola Gospel Heresy. (A New Modern Christian Heresy: Sola Gospel 3rd Rev
      https://www.academia.edu/86203243/ )

      If you read the whole of the canons of Gangra--one gets what its purpose was--who it was aimed at. People using the Gospel to evade their responsibilities and duties to each other and stopping Liberal ideology. Slavery is based on Practical Wisdom, which one part of it is Common Sense.

      The slavery canon in the Synod is a stumbling block--a divining rod--to separate the Righteous Christian from the Heretic. The slavery canon of Gangra speaks today, loud and clear. It is in FULL Force and Effect! It condemns all liberal christians and has put in hell all the abolitionists.

      A principle of Western Law: "Ignorance of the Law is no excuse". The whole Abolitionist movement is condemned. Reparations is unlawful for Aristotle says that a slave is paid thru lodging, food and clothing.

      Today's Catholics are in a sorry shape. I would like to (strongly) suggest that this be revisited by the power that be--and alert Catholics to the danger. The salvation of Souls is at stake here. Humanism is NOT Christian morality, nor Christian.

      And this is the importance of the Virtue of Manliness--the Courage to proclaim and uphold the Truth. What is happening is that modern Catholics, all liberals, hence Gnostics, effeminates, are CONFORMING to the world--But Christ told us to be the SALT of the earth. Vatican II was about conforming to the world, in my opinion a Gnostic council. We are to conform to God, not God to us. This is the importance of the Council of Gangra!

      It separates the Wheat from the Chaff.

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    22. “Humanism is a heresy” - lol. Please, tell me where the Church condemned Thomas More.

      I cannot even interpret your howling any more. The Church has never condemned the institution of slavery as intrinsically evil as such. It has certainly stated that it is inadmissible in the present day.

      “The whole abolitionist movement is condemned”

      Then I guess Pope Leo XIII stands condemned for In Plurimus.

      Dr. Ed, why do you let clowns like these post?

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  30. For what it's worth though even though figures like Dr Pakaluk might be wrong on this encyclical.

    I still think he is very insightful and post liberals like Dr Feser should take seriously his critics of post liberalism.

    He also accurately predicted that AI will become heavily regulated from an article he read.

    And voila , US govt has taken away access.

    When I have two orthodox minds like Dr Feser and Dr Michael Pakaluk disagreeing on prudential matters, I check how well they are able predict the flow of events.

    Similarly Prof has been spot on his war commentary.


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  31. Maybe too off topic for this thread, but ... what is "kindness" as the NT talks about it? And to whom is the Christian told to exhibit kindness? e.g. Josh Hokit after the fight exhibition on the White House lawn, having said that "there's only one person more incredible than the 'Incredible Hok,' and that's my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then said that Michelle Obama is a man. How is this "kind"? Or how is it "kind" to enslave someone who is not a slave? Or is "kindness" to be shown only to members of certain groups -- or does "kindness" mean whatever the speaker wants it to mean? So confusing.

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    Replies
    1. Having a cage match near the Lincoln Memorial was disgraceful. The MMA who made that bizarre comment about Michelle Obama was nasty. Or maybe he just got kicked in the head too much. It was an all-around gross spectacle.
      https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2026/06/15/trump-ufc-spectacle/
      “Shout out to Trump for having the balls to put some s— like this on,” Hokit shouted as the crowd roared. Then he took aim at a former first lady: “Michelle Obama is a man! Am I right, America"
      Josh Hoskit was right. Trump put shit on the White House lawn.

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