The president cannot legally initiate
a war
What the
Constitution allows the president to do unilaterally with respect to military
action is, of course, hotly debated. But
much of this debate is in bad faith. While
there are details over which reasonable people can quibble, the Constitution is
very clear on who has the authority to do what where war is concerned:
The Congress shall have power to… provide for the common defence
and general welfare of the United States… to define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the
high seas, and offences against the law of nations… to declare war, grant
letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and
water; to raise and support armies… to provide and maintain a navy; to make
rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces; to
provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union,
suppress insurrections and repel invasions; to provide for organizing, arming,
and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be
employed in the service of the United States…
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the army and navy
of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called
into the actual service of the United States.
(“Letters of
marque and reprisal” have to do with authorizing private citizens to attack or
seize enemy vessels and the like.)
It is to
Congress, then, that the constitution gives the most fundamental powers where
war-making is concerned – to raise, maintain, and govern an army and navy and
other military forces, and to decide when to commit them to war. This includes both military actions intended
to defend the United States against attack and those intended to punish piracy,
violations of the law of nations, and the like.
The president, meanwhile, is the chief commander of these forces once Congress
has initiated hostilities. This
arrangement parallels the roles Congress and the president play with respect to
lawmaking. Congress makes laws, and the
president then enforces them. Congress
initiates wars, and the president then conducts them. It would, of course, be absurd to suggest
that the fact that the president is the chief enforcer of the laws somehow
entails that he himself has the right to make laws. It is no less absurd to suggest that the fact
that the president is the commander-in-chief somehow entails that he has the
right to initiate a war.
There can be
no doubt that this is how the framers of the Constitution understood the
respective powers of Congress and the president. As Louis Fisher shows in his book Presidential War Power, their
concern was to prevent presidents from having the kind of discretionary power
where war is concerned that kings so often had.
They believed that the Constitution had achieved precisely that end, by
putting the power of initiating war in the hands of Congress. For example, James Madison wrote that “the
constitution supposes, what the History of all Govts demonstrates, that the
Ex[ecutive] is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to
it. It has accordingly with studied
care, vested the question of war in the Legisl[ature]” (Letter to Thomas Jefferson,
April 2, 1798, quoted by Fisher at p. 10).
Again, said Madison:
In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace to the
legislature, and not to the executive department. Beside the objection to such a mixture of
heterogeneous powers: the trust and the temptation would be too great for any
one man… War is in fact the true nurse of executive aggrandizement. In war a physical force is to be created, and
it is the executive will which is to direct it. In war the public treasures are to be
unlocked, and it is the executive hand which is to dispense them. In war the honors and emoluments of office are
to be multiplied; and it is the executive patronage under which they are to be
enjoyed. It is in war, finally, that
laurels are to be gathered, and it is the executive brow they are to encircle. The strongest passions, and most dangerous
weaknesses of the human breast; ambition, avarice, vanity, the honorable or
venial love of fame, are all in conspiracy against the desire and duty of
peace. (“Helvidius”
Number 4, September 14, 1793)
Thomas
Jefferson expressed similar views, writing: “We have already given in example
one effectual check to the Dog of war, by transferring the power of letting him
loose from the Executive to the Legislative body, from those who are to spend
to those who are to pay” (Letter to
James Madison, September 6, 1789).
Elsewhere Jefferson acknowledged that “Congress alone is
constitutionally invested with the power of changing our condition from peace
to war” (Special Message to Congress, December 6, 1805, quoted by Fisher at p.
34). And George Washington said that “the
Constitution vests the power of declaring war with Congress; therefore no
offensive expedition of importance can be undertaken until after they have
deliberated upon the subject, and authorized such a measure” (Letter to William
Moultrie, August 28, 1793, quoted by Fisher at p. 19). Even Alexander Hamilton, well known for
favoring a strong executive, acknowledged that “it belongs to Congress only, to
go to war” (The Examination Number 1, December 17, 1801, quoted by Fisher at p.
35).
To be sure,
during the constitutional convention, Madison agreed to a change of wording
that made reference to Congress’s power to “declare war” in place of the
original phrase “make war,” so as to leave open to the president “the power to
repel sudden attacks” (Fisher, p. 8).
But this is the exception that proves the rule. It is precisely because the framers
understood the Constitution generally to prohibit military action without
congressional approval that the question arose whether this ruled out even unilateral
presidential responses to sudden attacks.
And as Fisher notes:
Presidential use of force during the first few decades after
the Philadelphia convention conformed closely to the expectations of the
framers. The decision to go to war or to
mount offensive actions remained with Congress.
Presidents accepted that principle for all wars: declared or undeclared.
(p. 17)
In
particular, even when repelling sudden military threats to the United States,
presidents would confine themselves to defensive measures and look to Congress
to determine what action beyond that was permissible. As Fisher shows, this was true, for example,
of Washington’s conflicts with Indian tribes, and of Jefferson’s dealings with
Barbary pirates (contrary to the claims sometimes made by proponents of
expansive presidential war powers that Jefferson acted unilaterally).
It was only
later and gradually that presidents clearly attempted to push beyond
constitutional bounds, but even then they at least tried to give the appearance
of acting constitutionally. For
instance, though President James Polk tried to provoke a war with Mexico, he
did also seek a congressional declaration rather than pretending that he had
the authority either to initiate hostilities or go beyond purely defensive
measures. And even though Congress did indeed
issue such a declaration, Polk was later censured by the House of
Representatives for having “unnecessarily and unconstitutionally begun” the war
(quoted by Fisher at p. 43). Abraham
Lincoln wrote at the time:
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation, whenever
he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so, whenever he may choose to say he deems it
necessary for such purpose – and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his
power in this respect, after you have given him so much… The provision of the
Constitution giving the war-making power to Congress, was dictated, as I
understand it, by the following reasons. Kings had always been involving and
impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally, if not always, that
the good of the people was the object. This,
our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions;
and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the
power of bringing this oppression upon us. (Letter
to William Herndon, February 15, 1848)
During
Lincoln’s own presidency, the Supreme Court noted in 1862
that while he could act to repel sudden aggression, “the President…has no power
to initiate or declare a war either against a foreign nation or a domestic
State.” While Lincoln would nevertheless
himself push the envelope of presidential war powers, he acknowledged the
legally dubious nature of his doing so, and sought congressional approval after
the fact. While that is of course
problematic, the point is that it illustrates that he understood that the Constitution
was intended to deny presidents discretionary power of the kind that in
practice he tried to exercise.
Since
presidents would, during the century afterward, become ever less scrupulous in
observing constitutional limits, Congress passed the War
Powers Act in 1973 to try to rein them in and restore the limits on
presidential war powers the Constitution intended and the earliest presidents acknowledged. The Act states:
SEC. 2… (c) The constitutional powers of the President as
Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or
into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated
by the circumstances, are exercised only
pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or
(3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories
or possessions, or its armed forces. [emphasis added]
SEC. 3. The President in every possible instance shall
consult with Congress before introducing United States Armed Forces into
hostilities or into situation where imminent involvement in hostilities is
clearly indicated by the circumstances, and after every such introduction shall
consult regularly with the Congress until United States Armed Forces are no
longer engaged in hostilities or have been removed from such situations.
SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any
case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced (1) into hostilities or
into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated
by the circumstances… the president shall submit within 48 hours to the Speaker
of the House of Representatives and to the President pro tempore of the Senate
a report, in writing, setting forth (A) the circumstances necessitating the
introduction of United States Armed Forces; (B) the constitutional and
legislative authority under which such introduction took place; and (C) the
estimated scope and duration of the hostilities or involvement…
SEC. 5… (b) Within sixty calendar days after a report is
submitted or is required to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever
is earlier, the President shall terminate any use of Untied States Armed Forces
with respect to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted),
unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization
for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such
sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed
attack upon the United States. Such
sixty-day period shall be extended for not more than an additional thirty days
if the President determines and certifies to the Congress in writing that
unavoidable military necessity respecting the safety of United States Armed
Forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of
bringing about a prompt removal of such forces.
Note first
that the Act explicitly says that the president’s constitutional authority to
use military force exists ONLY where Congress declares war, OR where Congress
gives some authorization for military action short of a declaration of war, OR
where there is a national emergency created by some attack on the U.S. That’s it.
The only case in which the president may act without congressional
approval is the last of these three, i.e. in immediate response to an attack
actually underway against the United States.
There is nothing in the Act that permits a president to take unilateral
action in any other context – for example, against a country he thinks someday could attack the U.S.
The
importance of this point cannot be overemphasized. Those who favor expansive presidential war
powers often claim that the Act permits the president to use military force
virtually however he sees fit, as long as he gets congressional approval within
ninety days (the maximum amount that could be justified under Sec. 5). This is sheer sophistry. As Ilya Somin notes,
“the WPA is a limitation on presidential power, not a grant of it… The purpose of this [ninety day] requirement
is to constrain even small-scale combat deployments that might otherwise not
require congressional authorization.”
And the only such deployment recognized by the Act is the sort carried
out to repel an immediate attack on the United States.
In light of
the foregoing, the Iran war is manifestly unconstitutional. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a more obvious
example of the sort of unilateral presidential military action the framers of
the Constitution and the authors of the War Powers Act intended to rule
out. Congress has issued neither a
declaration of war nor any other authorization for military action against
Iran. The United States had not been
attacked by Iran, nor was an attack from Iran imminent. And even if the president did have the power
to take unilateral military action for ninety days, the war has now gone on
well beyond that, yet still not received congressional approval.
Of course,
some apologists for the war claim that the U.S. and Iran have already been at
war for 47 years, but as
I have shown elsewhere, that claim too is sheer sophistry. Indeed, this sophistry and others deployed by
the war’s apologists – such as claiming that the conflict is not strictly a
war, or that the war stopped after sixty days but restarted a day later (so
that the War Powers Act’s time constraints were not strictly violated) – implicitly
concede that presidents have no constitutional authority to initiate war. There would be no point in proposing these
absurd arguments, unless it was to try to rescue Trump from the charge that he
has overstepped legal boundaries.
Note that
the illegality of the Iran war would remain obvious even if one wanted to
quibble about whether there might be some
wiggle room for unilateral presidential military actions beyond just responses
to sudden attacks. For this is not some
small or limited conflict. While the stated
aims of the war have shifted from moment to moment, President Trump has claimed
at various times that the war is about ending the current Iranian regime and
liberating the Iranian people; has threatened to destroy the country’s
infrastructure and indeed end its civilization; has pledged to fight on as long
as it takes until Iran’s nuclear capacities are destroyed and the Strait of
Hormuz is opened; and has refused to rule out a ground invasion. The war has already caused many civilian deaths
and serious damage to U.S. military bases, as well as grave economic harm to the
U.S. and our allies; has greatly depleted U.S. munitions stockpiles and thereby
weakened our military position elsewhere in the world; and threatens to bring
about a global recession if the strait is not reopened soon. Hence the war’s aims are as ambitious and
open-ended, and its potential effects as momentous, as any that could be
imagined.
If the
Constitution and War Powers Act would not rule out unilateral presidential
action even of this extreme kind, there is nothing they would rule out. To stretch their constraints on presidential
discretion far enough to permit the Iran war would simply empty those
constraints of all content. Right-wingers
who claim that the Iran war is constitutional are thus like left-wingers who
pretend that the Constitution implies a right to abortion or same-sex
marriage. They are transparently arguing
in bad faith, cobbling together specious constitutional rationalizations for
policies to which they are committed on extra-constitutional grounds.
Just war doctrine and lawful
authority
Some might
object that at least for purposes of determining whether the war is just, all
of this is neither here nor there, since what ultimately matters is not whether
it meets U.S. legal criteria, but
rather whether it meets the relevant moral
criteria of natural law, as enshrined in just war doctrine. Now, the “lawful authority” condition of just
war doctrine tells us that private individuals cannot initiate a war, not even
for a just cause. Public authorities
alone have the right and responsibility to do so. But the war was initiated by the sitting
President of the United States, not a private individual. And that (so the argument might go) suffices
for meeting the lawful authority condition of just war theory, whatever one
thinks about the constitutional issues.
But this is
just more sophistry. The first problem
is that for the lawful authority condition of just war doctrine to be
satisfied, it is not sufficient that some
governmental authority or other initiates military action. It has to be the specific authority within a polity that possesses that power. Hence, as Francisco Suárez argues in The Three Theological Virtues: On Charity,
Disputation XIII: On War:
An inferior prince, or an imperfect state, or whosoever in
temporal affairs is under a superior, cannot justly declare war without the
authorization of that superior… such a declaration of war is opposed to the
rights of the sovereign prince, to whom that power has been specially
entrusted…
A war which, according to the preceding conclusion, is
declared without legitimate authority, is contrary not only to charity, but
also to justice, even if a legitimate cause for it exists. The reason supporting this conclusion is that
such an act is performed without legitimate jurisdiction, and is consequently
an illegitimate act. (Section II)
As we have
seen, in the American context, the authority to whom the power to initiate war
has been “specially entrusted” is Congress, not the president. Hence, on the specific matter of initiating
war, the president is “inferior” in authority to Congress. And thus, for him to initiate a war without
congressional authorization is, by the criteria set out by Suárez, an
“illegitimate act” and contrary to justice, even if the cause for which he does
so is a good one.
We must also
keep in mind that, as St. Thomas Aquinas teaches, when human laws are
consistent with the natural law, they “are just and binding in conscience” (Summa Theologiae I-II.96.4). No one has the right to disobey them merely
because they were made by man rather than God, because the right of human
governing authorities to make binding laws is itself part of the natural law. Now, that the U.S. Constitution gives
Congress alone the power to initiate war is part of human law. One might argue about whether it would have
been better to give the president more discretionary power than the
Constitution does. But there is nothing
positively contrary to the natural law in the Constitution’s giving Congress
alone the right to initiate war. And it
is only where human law is positively contrary to the natural law that it can
be disobeyed. Hence, Americans have a
moral obligation to respect constitutional constraints on presidential war
powers – and to oppose presidential violations of those constraints, just as
they would oppose other forms of illegality.
Indeed, presidential illegalities, left unchecked, are far worse than
those committed by ordinary citizens, because they undermine the credibility of
the entire political order. In this way,
what President Trump has done is gravely harmful and immoral even apart from
its violation of just war criteria.
There is yet
another consideration. For it is not
merely that the natural law permits
human law to limit the war powers of the chief executive in the way the U.S.
constitution does. In fact, the just war
tradition positively favors this sort
of arrangement. In his book The Catholic Tradition of the Law of Nations,
John Eppstein notes that as the Scholastic tradition of just war thinking
developed, what became the standard view is that the decision to go to war is
too grave a matter to leave to the discretion of one man. Summing up the mature Scholastic teaching,
Eppstein writes:
All those who hold office or have any political
responsibility in the state are bound in conscience to examine carefully the
rights and wrongs of a proposed declaration of war. War may
not be waged on the personal authority of the sovereign, but only after the
advice of wise and impartial men has been sought, and after the claims of the
opposing side have been carefully weighed. (p. 123, emphasis added)
In the same spirit,
the bishops of the United States, in a
1919 pastoral letter, advocated the decentralization of decision-making
where war is concerned:
The growth of democracy implies that the people shall have a
larger share in determining the form, attributions, and policies of the
government to which they look for the preservation of order. It should also imply that the calm deliberate judgment of the people, rather than the aims of the
ambitious few, shall decide whether, in case of international disagreement, war
be the only solution. Knowing that
the burdens of war will fall most heavily on them, the people will be slower in
taking aggressive measures, and, with an adequate sense of what charity and
justice require, they will refuse to be led or driven into conflict by false
report or specious argument. (Emphasis added)
Similarly,
when addressing the question of how the individual citizen can be confident
that a proposed war is just, the eminent Catholic natural law theorist Heinrich
Rommen writes:
A good opportunity exists… where the representatives of the
people have some control over the foreign policy of the government. Another favorable factor would be a
constitutional provision that the most concentrated competence of sovereignty –
the declaration of war – be exercised “by plebiscite or at least by resolution
of representatives of the people.” (The
State in Catholic Thought, p. 671)
In giving
the power to initiate war to the legislature rather than the executive, then,
the U.S. constitution is not merely consistent
with the just war tradition, but indeed more
in its spirit than a political order that gave greater discretion to the president
would be. This gives Catholics and
others who accept just war doctrine extra reason to oppose unconstitutional
wars.
When we
consider together both the just war tradition and the U.S. constitution, then,
it is clear that no American war can meet the “lawful authority” condition unless
it is given congressional approval. And
this is exactly what some pre-Vatican II American Catholic manuals of moral
theology implicitly or explicitly taught. For example, in volume 1 of their Moral Theology: A Complete Course, Fr.
John McHugh and Fr. Charles Callan write: “What public authority has the right
to declare war? Ordinarily, only the
sovereign power – that is, the person or
body in whom the chief authority is vested according to the constitution of a nation – can make war” (p. 560,
emphasis added). Fr. Austin Fagothey’s Right and Reason teaches that “only the
person or body designated in the
constitution of the state as having the authority to declare war can do so
legitimately” (p. 563, emphasis added). Fr.
Francis Connell’s Outlines of Moral
Theology states that in order for a war to be just, “a declaration must be
made by the lawful authority – in the United States Congress” (p. 116). (I note that these are pre-Vatican II works
to forestall any foolish suggestion that scruples over congressional
authorization somehow reflect post-Vatican II theological liberalism.)
It cannot reasonably
be denied, then, that the Iran war fails to meet the “lawful authority”
condition of just war doctrine. That
alone would suffice to make it unjust, even if it were otherwise unproblematic.
But as I have argued in other articles
(linked to below), the war is unjust for several other reasons as well.
Further
reading:
The
U.S. war on Iran is manifestly unjust
America’s conflict in
Iran is not a just war
Does
just war doctrine require moral certainty?
Misunderstanding
the “just cause” condition of just war doctrine
No,
the U.S. has not been at war with Iran for 47 years
The
evil and incoherence of targeting civilian infrastructure


You have posted multiple times on Iran and Just War Doctrine. This blog post is redundant.
ReplyDeleteIt's always a good idea actually to read something before commenting on it. The post goes into much greater depth on the constitutional issue than I have before, so, no, it's not redundant.
DeleteYou’re a great philosopher. You’re not a constitutional scholar. Your reading of the text is highly controverted.
DeleteAgreed. Though well-researched, these articles are not up to Ed’s usual quality.
DeleteYet we're given no examples at all of where exactly my argument is mistaken. What is of low quality are these comments.
DeleteNonsense on stilts, my good man. Nobody has ever persuaded another human being through an argument in a combox. I might direct you, however, to your old partner Joseph Bessette, who’s quite familiar with the work of John Yoo on the subject.
DeleteI am Anonymous No.1. If you are going to quote Constitutional scholars, use recent articles by eminent scholars.
Deletehttps://www.scotusblog.com/2026/03/abandoning-the-separation-of-powers-in-times-of-war/
This is by a presidential historian:
https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty-research/policy-topics/international-relations-security/are-we-officially-war-iran
Man, it’s his blog — let Ed post whatever he wants.
DeleteAlso, this post isn’t redundant at all. It raises a highly relevant discussion about checks and balances, too.
"Nobody has ever persuaded another human being through an argument in a combox. I might direct you, however, to your old partner Joseph Bessette, who’s quite familiar with the work of John Yoo on the subject."
DeleteAn appeal to authority after claiming nobody can be persuaded by combox arguments, truly excellent self-refutation.
You should brush up on your logic, cause that doesn’t follow.
DeleteAn appeal to authority is a type of argument. How is anyone bound by logic if it is literally impossible to persuade anyone through dialogue? What justifies your response in attempting to change minds knowing it is always futile?
DeletePerhaps you simply overstated your position (hardly an unusual sin) but admitting to that would require a level of awareness which hasn't yet revealed itself.
@Step2: very succinct, and very apt. Thank you.
DeleteThe Republicans in Congress are afraid of Trump, his Administration and his MAGA followers. They will continue to roll over for him until they are booted out of office in the mid terms.
ReplyDeleteA fascinating article - thank you. If the president has acted Illegally what legal action can be taken against him? I thought that a legal injunction could be taken against his decision. Or in the last resort impeachment. Here in Britain the executive (cabinet and prime minister) can declare war without parliamentary approval; although David Cameron did ask parliament to approve bombing Syria in 2013, and when he lost the vote he abided by the decision - and this referral to parliament may act as a precedent for future hostilities.
ReplyDeleteThe President has unilaterally committed US forces countless times in American history. If that’s unconstitutional the answer seems to be…not much.
Delete"The President has unilaterally committed US forces countless times..."
DeleteYes, and it has been unconstitutional every time. Though it has worsened over time, the document has been in tatters since the earliest decades of the federal government. What can be more obvious than Congress having the power "to declare war"? The same can be said on countless other issues such as the sovereignty of the states, protective tariffs, etc.; though long trampled on, that does not in the least reverse how they are to be properly treated according to the Constitution.
It is absolutely necessary to distinguish between presidential action before congressional approval, in response to actual, direct attacks, presidential action before congressional approval upon imminent threat against US forces or bases by inimical parties, and presidential action without imminent threat against US forces or bases and without congressional approval.
DeleteThe Constitution's war powers provision has been interpreted loosely on all sides throughout the existence of the US: Presidents Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe ordered troops into battle outside of our borders, but in response to attacks, before / without a Congressional declaration of war. Nobody at the time thought they should be impeached for it, nor were they even officially censured for it. Truman and Kennedy / Johnson / Nixon carried out full-scale wars without Congress declaring war, and nobody impeached them over it (Nixon WOULD have been impeached had he not resigned, but it wasn't in the least due to the Vietnam operations - which he inherited from 2 Dem presidents anyway). But these latter 2 cases of undeclared wars were definitely judged later to be excesses , and evoked the 1973 War Powers Act, in which Congress clarified the division of powers: the president CAN send troops into combat without a prior declaration of war, under certain conditions, and that's NOT HELD to violate the Constitution. Since 1973, at least 2 other presidents before Trump still exceeded those conditions, and yet there was no impeachment over them, and while there were pro-forma votes of censure in response, no official penal actions were issued as a result: those presidents got off scot-free. It is certainly a bad idea to have an important rule and have no penalty attached to violating it, but Congress has not seen fit to impose such a penalty in the past. While Catholic natural law jurisprudence notes that "an unenforced law ceases to be law", it takes a lot of TIME for this to happen<./i>, and for this law it takes a lot more than 2 or 3 decades. But, if they can't ever get to the point of enforcing that law, eventually it will be de facto defunct.
During the Coup of 18 of Brumaire Napoleon said to the Council of Ancients: "The Constitution does not exist; you yourselves violated it on the 10th Fructidor, when the government violated the independence of the Legislature; you violated it on the 30th Prairial, when the Legislative Body overthrew the independence of the executive; you violated it on the 22d Floreal, when, by a sacrilegious decree, the government and Legislature violated the sovereignty of the people by annulling the elections which they had made."...
ReplyDeleteI guess Trump could also make a similar point, which is hard to answer.
After all, the U.S. Constitution was twisted to support abortion, same-sex marriage, so why is this going to be worse?
And looking at the law that hasn't been twisted in such a way, the Code of Canon Law, Canon 27 says: "Custom is the best interpreter of laws.". And the American custom seems to be that it is the President who starts wars.
Defending Trump by citing Napoleon would be quite the stark admission, given that Napoleon is one of the clearest examples of a Dictator overthrowing a Republic that exists.
Delete"After all, the U.S. Constitution was twisted to support abortion, same-sex marriage, so why is this going to be worse?"
+
"And looking at the law that hasn't been twisted in such a way, the Code of Canon Law, Canon 27 says"
This is explicitly a Catholic partisan's argument. By making it, you are saying that you disagree with the Founding Fathers and think their project ought to be scrapped and replaced with a Catholic confessional state. You can make that argument if you want, but at least admit to yourself and to the world that you are no Patriot, but rather want to repeal the First Amendment and replace the United States with an alien form of government.
The founding fathers were explicit white nationalists(based btw) please don’t pretend you like them.
DeleteLearn to read gooder
DeleteOh wow, I'm soooooo triggered. You're really impressing me with your moral and intellectual rigor, guys. Feser continues to impress.
DeleteIf you don’t support white nationalism, you cannot support any constitutional ideals. Good to know, Terilien. Good that some of you will openly admit your racism instead of hiding behind it behind the bible, and whatever other causes you use to justify your base morality. “Based” indeed.
Delete"Defending Trump by citing Napoleon would be quite the stark admission, given that Napoleon is one of the clearest examples of a Dictator overthrowing a Republic that exists." - yes, he did overthrow the French Directory and ended the Constitution that established it. And hardly anyone defended it. One reason for that is that it lost legitimacy, as the government kept violating the Constitution whenever it found that convenient (still hypocritically insisting on its "sanctity", when that was more convenient). And I am pointing out that things like that can happen elsewhere.
DeleteAnd we can see that Napoleon's argument is hard to answer, for you did not even attempt to answer it.
"This is explicitly a Catholic partisan's argument. By making it, you are saying that you disagree with the Founding Fathers and think their project ought to be scrapped and replaced with a Catholic confessional state." - that seems to be acceptable to me, and I see that you are not actually arguing otherwise. Did you forget to add an exclamation "No Popery!"?
But it is not what those arguments say, and you did not respond to them.
Anyway, if you'd look at "The Federalist" number 40, you will discover that the Founding Fathers could also insist that a Constitution (in that case Articles of Confederation) could be ignored for the sake of common good (or "national happiness").
In fact, Catholic position might be demanding more respect for Constitution than their position.
They've got a point, EXE. Attempts by the Left to continue to ground American democracy in the vision of the Founding Fathers only produces mealy-mouthed hypocrisy. At a certain point, you just gotta say "Screw this failed liberal experiment and its legacy of racism, sexism, class oppression, etc." and embrace something more radical, like anarchism or democratic socialism or good old-fashioned Marxism. Anything less is just the same empty promise of a "return to normalcy" that got us a second Trump presidency.
DeleteMP,
DeleteNo, I'm not arguing otherwise. You are perfectly at liberty to embrace that position, if you will. I demand only that, if you do, you be honest and clear-sighted about what that means. It means that you are a traitor to the United States and to its founding ideals. It means you must damn Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and the rest of the Founders to Hell as vile heretics, and take up arms against America (or at least to regard such as licit). It is to become a member of the Catholic Taliban. You may do so, but if you do, be honest about the fact that you are an enemy of America, and no patriot.
Thurible,
DeleteHmm. There's some truth to that, though I think one could salvage parts of the Founders' Vision by claiming that it was more radical than even they realized, and that they failed to be perfectly loyal to it. I would, actually, think that moving to a democratic socialist model would be a vast improvement, though it remains up for debate as to how ready America is for such a radical shift. Certainly, we can at least move in that direction. Get big money out of politics and remove the two-party system, so that government is more likely to represent their constituents. Redistribute wealth so that the ultra-rich can no longer capture the government to serve their needs above all else. For decades, the government's actions have tracked poorly with the desires of the public, but tracked very well with the desires of the ultra-wealthy. It ought not to be such. It doesn't have to be such.
"It means that you are a traitor to the United States and to its founding ideals. It means you must damn Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and the rest of the Founders to Hell as vile heretics, and take up arms against America (or at least to regard such as licit)."?
DeleteHow on Earth is that supposed to follow?
I wonder what, in your opinion, I was arguing for...
No, I do not have to believe that Washington and the like are in Hell. I do not have to have an opinion on that, for it makes little difference for me (perhaps even no difference).
And I sure do not have to believe that because I think that 1) the constitutional order that they have established has been changed by custom in a significant way, 2) the Constitution that they made has been violated and twisted by many who were in the government at various times, 3) because of that it is not necessary to follow it to the letter at all costs, 4) it is possible to do a bit better than both the current constitutional order and the written Constitution.
As I have pointed out, the Founding Fathers themselves violated the previous Constitution (Articles of Confederation) to establish the new one (and they explicitly acknowledged that, justifying their decision, as in "The Federalist" number 40). Yet I don't think that, because of this, every single of them had to "damn [themselves] to Hell as vile heretics", "take up arms against America", be "an enemy of America", "a traitor to the United States and to its founding ideals". In fact, I think that this idea would be absurd and ridiculous.
I agree with Feser that Pres. Trump should not be doing what he's been doing in Iraq. Just a couple of clarifications:
ReplyDeleteOR where there is a national emergency created by some attack on the U.S. That’s it.
In actuality, the 3rd clause of the provision is slightly more expansive than that:
or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.
Sure, it would be easier to tell when there has been an "attack on (our) armed forces" if our armed forces remained at home, but they don't - by Congessional approval - so Congress meant this to cover attacks abroad on our forces. It's a bit of a stretch, but ONLY a bit, to include in this attacks by terrorist organizations supported by a given nation, as an attack BY that nation. Of which there have been some.
But even granting, for the sake of hypothesis, that Trump might have technically had authorization to act initially, he has exceeded the 60 day (and 90 day) limit.
Trump’s brazen usurpation of this power is as serious an assault on the Constitution and the rule of law as can be imagined, and Congress’s failure to rein him in is a dereliction of duty that is no less grave.
I grant that his actions are brazen, Congress is lax, and that these are dangerous to our constitutional order. I doubt that they are quite as serious as Feser makes out here. First, he's not the first president to do this: In just the modern era, the Korean war and the Vietnam war were far vaster in terms of commitment of resources & troops, and lasted far longer. Even since the passage of the War Powers Act, President Clinton ignored the 60-day limit in Kosovo, and Obama did it again in Libya. History says that "this is bad", not "this destroys the constitution outright".
Secondly, there are many other ways in which the presidents, congresses and courts of the last several decades defied and ignored the Constitution, possibly in ways that are actually even more grave and detrimental than even what Trump is doing in Iran. Attacks on the 2nd amendment, executive repudiation of border law, clear judicial overreach in grave matters, undermining the meaning of marriage, holding prisoners without limit in 'black' foreign prisons, eradication of local control & meaningful parental oversight of schools, damaging the voting process, all these and more are cuts to the body politic - along with presidential arrogation of powers not his. If the constitutional order comes tumbling down, it will be more due to myriad internal damages to its order than the external one Trump is doing.
You are the worst apologist for Trump on this site. No matter the case you invent greater evils others have done. About the only legit thing in the entire second paragraph of claims is Black sites. I would love to see what evidence you have of any of the nonsense you’ve claimed.
DeleteSee, even here you seem not to be able to think critically. Let's take the prisoners in black sites: because they are literally not within our borders, there is far less reach the Constitution has for which the president can be said to be violating it. They may be graver evils than some of the others on the list, but that's a different category than graver violation of the Constitution. And, of course, other presidents also failed to end that evil, e.g. Obama after explicitly saying he would close that prison.
DeleteAs to what "evidence" I have for any of the others: if you think we need more evidence of ignoring border laws than what was published widely (often by the MSM) during the Biden term, you need a lot more help than I can give you. Just to take one example. And it's even easier for the marriage issue.
You are the worst apologist for Trump on this site.
DeleteWorst apologist for Trump? ? Did you happen to notice I agreed he shouldn't be attacking Iran? Did you happen to notice on the previous thread I castigated Trump for his IVF actions? Said that he shouldn't have threatened Denmark? But several others here are worse: EXE is a far worse apologist for Trump, he can't hardly make ANY case for his actions EVER.
Again, I would like you to demonstrate with your superior critical thinking skills evidence:
DeleteIgnoring Border Laws ( I’m not in your in group so I don’t just read your words then imagine caravans of illegal immigrants or whatever else animates the right wing mind. Assume, for the sake of argument, the neutral position, and provide evidence)
Damaging the Voting Process - ( again, declaring election fraud because Republicans lose is not election fraud -this requires evidence. What is it?
-eradication of local control & meaningful parental oversight of schools - Evidence. Have democrats ceased allocated federal funding to states? Have they tiered disaster finding to who voted for them? These are things Trump is doing. What are you talking about?
Attacks on the 2nd amendment -
You must be one of the people that goes and buys more guns after every school shooting. The grift of gun manufacturers will never end because the audience is willfully blind. Sandy Hook happened. Your entire political alliance shrugged and there is no meaningful legislation on guns. This debate is over but they need to sell guns so they keep you in this hysteric state and you believe it - a serious critical thinker. Again, provide evidence. This country has how many guns? And how much of the entire cartel network down south is sustained by the easy access to guns via this country? You’re a critical thinker - please actually research this and do some thinking here.
undermining the meaning of marriage - Evidence. The legalization of same-sex marriage maybe a scandal for fundamentalists - it is a not issue for any heterosexual or otherwise couple who know that love and family is not constituted just be gender/sex identification.
clear judicial overreach in grave matters - Evidence, examples. Cause apparently the all the prior Democrats were just smashing and grabbing like Trump with a SC just signing off on it. Did they bar Biden from canceling student debt? Oh, they did but Trump can control the purse, destroy agencies, unilaterally make tariffs, tear down parts of the white house, threaten to destroy a building because he can’t have his name on it, build monuments to himself, do insider trading, and on and on. These are the same things to you though, a critical thinker.
2 follow-ups to Anon here who thinks my very existence is a plague upon the world:
Deleteundermining the meaning of marriage - Evidence. The legalization of same-sex marriage maybe a scandal for fundamentalists
After asking for evidence, you give one of the 2 best examples of that evidence. What you want to do is ARGUE whether SSM is indeed damaging to the meaning of marriage, but arguing about its impact is a different mode of debate than presenting evidence. And it's not the only important example: introduction of no-fault divorce, creating a new body of law in which - for the first time - a contract fundamental to society could be severed by ONE party at will, was very damaging. Mind you, it was brought on by a mix of both Repubs and Dems, but I didn't SAY that it was all Democrats, and didn't mean it that way either.
Damaging the Voting Process
Gerrymandering. Again, both sides have done it, both sides have been damaging our constitutional order. I don't like it when Repubs do it, and I don't like it when Dems do it (go look at MA, 33% voted for Trump, but not one Republican in the House).
My point wasn't that Dems were responsible for all of those examples of changes damaging to the constitutional order, my point was that there has been MANY such events / changes - and were still here - so yet another one, by Trump, is (probably) just one more of the long list, not uniquely catastrophic.
U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War lasted from 1965 to 1973.Fifty thousand Americans died. Countless more were wounded. There was no declaration of war by Congress. The war was fought on the basis of the flimsy Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, and Pres. Johnson got that Declaration on the basis of a lie. What we are doing in Iran is nothing compared to what we did in Vietnam. I am against the Iran war, but there's nothing illegal about it.
ReplyDeleteActually, that makes me think of something. Hey, Ed, you've said before that you oppose racial supremacy. Well, here's Terilien expressing clear agreement with White Nationalism, an explicitly racial supremacist belief system. I know you keep a light hand on this blog, but doesn't this seem like something you should at least call out? Or should I assume that you view White Nationalism as the kind of thing that you're perfectly comfortable with providing a home and shelter for? You can do what you like, of course, it's your blog. It's just that I thought better of you.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what he's said. And I have little idea of what you've said. My giving people fairly free rein no more entails that I sympathize with his views (whatever they are) than I sympathize with yours (whatever they are).
DeleteHilarious, this is another way of saying "someone said something I don't like, and if the blog owner doesn't acknowledge it then he's complicit too". Do you really think a blog owner actually reads every comment made on his page? Pathetic triggered snowflake.
DeleteOh, now I have your attention, at last? I go by the old punk saying - if you let even one Nazi drink in your bar, you run a Nazi bar. Then again, it shouldn't surprise me that a "Traditional Catholic" is sympathetic to Fascism.
Delete?? What is your problem? I've given you free rein here despite people asking me to ban you for being a troll. I assumed they must have been exaggerating -- as I say, I don't read through all the comments and thus simply don't know -- but the fact that you here act like a complete jackass right out of the gate leads me to reconsider that judgment.
DeleteAlright, I'll come completely clean. There is a bit of personal grievance here. You were one of the people whose works I grasped onto to deal with the cognitive dissonance of being Catholic, over a decade ago at this point. Of course, it was more of a "well smart people have figured it all out so it doesn't have to make sense" type of thing. During that time, I was a pretty unpleasant and unhappy person, largely because of my religion. Heckling relatives over cohabitation, breaking down in nervous fits over the horror of Hell, that kind of thing. I've since deconstructed, but the spectral fear that I "hadn't refuted Scholasticism and thus couldn't justify leaving" kept me in for a while. Given that you are part of the Catholic Apologetics ecosystem and have a direct hand in producing said intellectual atmosphere, I hold you to be partially responsible for my suffering, and the suffering of others.
DeleteI am admitting that I have this bias, because there's no point in trying to pretend that I don't. I'm only human. That said, I do try my best to avoid letting it cripple my intellectual faculties - I try to accept valid counterpoints made by my opponents, and try to use only the best arguments for my own positions. Even ignoring my personal grievances, though, I genuinely believe that there are serious intellectual flaws with your worldview and positions on a multitude of topics, which matters because said worldview is affecting real-world politics through JD Vance, Christian Nationalism, etc (you don't have to actively support either of those things for your ideas to contribute to them, notably). For one example, your grasp of the history of philosophy is extremely poor, as seen from your embrace of an Adlerian "Early Modern/Mechanist Conspiracy Against Scholasticism" narrative, which any academic historian would regard as baseless pseudohistory. I also concur with DB Hart's assessment that you lack intellectual curiosity, reflected in your apparent disinterest in engaging with any material that might challenge or complicate your comfortable, settled certainties (in that context, he was referring to your completely ignoring Early Christian writings on the Death Penalty in favor of Medieval ones, formed long after the Church had rationalized its cohabitation with state power, but from what I've seen that applies more generally too). My frustration mostly stems from the fact that whenever I try to engage with anyone about such topics, all I get are your fans coming in to throw insults and logical fallacies at me.
There. I've said what I had to say. Ban me if you like. It's your decision. It might even be healthier for me, to be honest.
Not to be a jerk EXE, but you don't need to refute scholasticism to refute Catholicism lol. Kind of a weird bugbear to have. I would say that ultimately we stand and fall on our historical claims. Classical theism and natural law could be true, and Catholicism utterly false.
DeleteEXE,
DeleteI read everything you said, and I hope you’ll take a moment to read this. I understand your pain. That doesn’t mean I agree with everything you’re saying, but I do understand. The thoughts and crises that have stayed with you are heavy, and they’re hard to carry.
By any chance, do you deal with OCD? Some of what you described feels very close to it. I have OCD myself, which is why I’m asking. I’m not trying to label or shame you in any way. I only mention it because these kinds of thoughts put enormous pressure on a person. Mine has always gone after the things that matter most to me — God, free will, and the self. If something similar is happening with you, I can only imagine how crushing it must feel, especially when hell is part of the picture.
I’m not here to persuade you of anything. I just want you to consider a few things from someone who’s been on the other side of this.
First, Ed does what he does not because he wants control, power for the Church, or a "malevolent Christian theocracy," but because he loves God deeply and wants others to know the life-changing reality he’s found in Him. While you have grievances, I have only gratitude for him. His work has changed lives—including mine. I live in Brazil, and this man from so far away took the time to counsel me through emails with a patience I’ll never forget. It was incredible to find such help and comfort from someone in another country, especially when people close to home didn't seem to notice what I was going through. He helped bring me closer to God when I needed it most. I ask you, if you can, to consider that side of him too.
More importantly, I’m not writing this to scold or lecture you. When I read what you wrote, I felt real compassion for you and a tight, painful sensation in my chest. You’ve been belligerent at times (and people have been that way toward you as well), and you’ve even admitted when you’ve gone too far, including with me in the past. I don’t believe that belligerence is who you truly are, or who you want to be. It seems like something still feels unsettled inside, and that frustration just keeps spilling out.
Even if you don’t want to hear anything else I’ve said, please hold on to this: God loves you. You are not 'deconstructed.' The mark He left on you cannot be erased — that's why you keep going back to Him, even if only to disagree.
I’m truly sorry for everything you’ve suffered. From the bottom of my heart, I ask you to reconsider the path you’re on right now. I’m not quarreling with you as I write these words. Even if some people think I’m foolish for reaching out like this, I’m doing it because I believe you’ll read it and, somewhere inside, consider it.
Don’t drift away from God, brother. If the blog is making you angry or doing more harm than good, take a break (even I don’t always agree with the comment section, including the people who are "on my side"). But please don’t turn that anger toward Ed—he’s a genuinely good man—and especially not toward God. He loves you.
There's a lot more I could say, but for now, please consider this. Take care, man. May God bless you.
Dr. Feser,
DeleteTo be fair he confessed the demons he is struggling with. Yet the current level of drama is unsustainable even though it has sometimes been entertaining and informative.
EXE,
While the outrage of someone being wrong on the internet may be unbearable (to borrow a famous quip), it is exponentially more vital to attend with care to your real-life attachments. Moreover, needless flame wars are highly detrimental to your political goal. Multiple scorched earth attacks were launched against a litany of motives when you agree with the policy outcome. Strategy and selective use of time and energy also applies here; just as in any contest.
"I was a pretty unpleasant and unhappy person, largely because of my religion." - that is very unlikely, for you have lost your religion, and yet you are still a pretty unpleasant person.
DeleteIt is harder to say if you are still unhappy, but people who are happy (and especially people who are both happy and pleasant) are not known to write long texts expressing hate and vindictiveness to someone they never met.
It might be that you are unpleasant and unhappy in new ways, but does not seem that Catholicism had anything to do with you being unpleasant and unhappy.
It follows that there is some other cause. As you can see, Vini Tadeo suspected OCD, I thought about scrupulosity (that's pretty much the same guess, for scrupulosity might count as a subtype of OCD).
In either case, you should probably see a specialist, if only to rule those possibilities out.
I also remember commenting my prayers for EXE, I hope he finds the Joy of Christ.
DeleteIt always felt as if EXE was attacking something besides my arguments, because it was always going in tangents. For example in my argument against abortion, I presented an argument that could be held as an atheist and indeed there are many pro life atheists precisely because of similar arguments.
But I kept having to respond to ad hominems about my purported non existent "alliegience to Trump".
I was expecting a more of an agree to disagree kind of discourse with an atheist.
All the same, I think EXE, you will probably find more sympathisers and maybe that constant angst in your mind is just Christ knocking at your door, trying to find his lost son, Christ has you in mind when he died on the cross as well.
And I think if someone as intellectually gifted as Joe Schmid found Christ, can convert having come to see the folly in his flawed albeit respectable arguments (You really don't want to go up unprepared as a theist against Schmid ), His mind was probably a storm as well, I am sure you can find Christ as well, EXE.
I wish you well
Norm
"No one respected the Constitution before so Trump is ok here" is sure a surprising argument in the comments here.
ReplyDeleteWhat a wonderful thing is American democracy. We can vote for war, Wall Street, abortion, and unconstitutional expansion of executive power, or... war, Wall Street, abortion, and unconstitutional expansion of executive power. What options! What endless variety! Vox populi, vox Dei!
DeleteIf that were the argument. If the constant practice is any key to constitutional interpretation, however…
Delete"Summa Theologiae", First Part of the Second Part, Question 97, Article 3: "Accordingly, custom has the force of a law, abolishes law, and is the interpreter of law.".
Delete@MP
DeleteOkay, but that means that Republican complaints about government overreach and failure to respect the constitution that we've been hearing for the past several decades are a failure to respect one of the basic principles of natural law: if you break the law enough, it becomes "custom," and then breaking the law is actually upholding the law and following the law is actually breaking it.
Or something like that.
The legal principle is called desuetude or a dead letter law.
Delete"if you break the law enough, it becomes 'custom,' and then breaking the law is actually upholding the law and following the law is actually breaking it." - that is covered in the same article: "Objection 2. Further, many evils cannot make one good. But he who first acted against the law, did evil. Therefore by multiplying such acts, nothing good is the result. Now a law is something good; since it is a rule of human acts. Therefore law is not abolished by custom, so that the mere custom should obtain force of law.".
DeleteAnd, naturally, there is a "Reply to Objection 2": "As stated above (I-II:96:6), human laws fail in some cases: wherefore it is possible sometimes to act beside the law; namely, in a case where the law fails; yet the act will not be evil. And when such cases are multiplied, by reason of some change in man, then custom shows that the law is no longer useful: just as it might be declared by the verbal promulgation of a law to the contrary." (I am not copying all of it.)
So, one example of this is ratification of treaties: if we look at the Constitution alone, the natural interpretation is that the President should discuss ongoing negotiations with the Senate. But, of course, once that was actually tried, Washington saw that it didn't work all that well, and the Senate ended up merely ratifying the treaties - because of the custom.
Also, we can see that the government agrees with the custom: no one initiates impeachment etc.
And, as far, as the declarations of war are concerned, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States#Formal_declarations_of_war we see a list of mere 5 wars (War of 1812, Mexican-American War, Spanish-American War, WW1, WW2). The list of undeclared wars is much longer.
Good post on the war again. Unfortunately it looks as though the left makes most of the running in the rule of law debate in the United States. Trump and Vance aren't much of a challenge to them. Crackpot ideas are their guiding star it would seem, with Vance musing today that he may be capable of bringing on "the end times"... Outside scholasticism, political debate and theory in the modern West is a vacuum sucking in inanities.
ReplyDeleteWith "Petagon Pete" Hegseth telling Trump what he wants to hear and with him firing the the military's top leaders, the war will grind on.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.military.com/hegseth-removing-militarys-senior-leaders-faster-than-any-defense-secretary-in-recent-history
I don't know what Hegseth is trying to do there. But if his purpose is to get rid of the brass who, for more than 2 decades, has pretended that there's no difference between men and women while at the same time having lower standards for women's physical fitness than for men's, well, they needed the boot for a long time. Lots of them.
Delete"I don't know what Hegseth is trying to do there." That's right. You don't. So Read the link.
Deleteand this one.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/05/pete-hegseth-pentagon-military
He's dicking with our military.
The argument of this article seems to me a bit legalistic and formalistic. If the President initiates a war without the required authorization by Congress, and if Congress let him come away with that, I would say that the President has de facto been authorized Congress. Silence gives consent.
ReplyDeleteWell, the families of US soldiers killed in this war with Iran are not receiving any support or compenstion. Why? Because apparently it's not a war.
DeleteDo with that info as you wish.
I said "de facto".
DeleteJ.D. Vance said we are not at war. He also told a podcaster the Anti-Christ is among us. I am not sure which statement bothers me more.
DeleteThe only way this will change is if a Congress impeaches a President for this behavior.
ReplyDelete