I’ve been
getting some strange book reviews lately.
First up is Logan Paul
Gage’s review of my book Five
Proofs of the Existence of God in the latest issue of Philosophia Christi. Gage says some very complimentary things
about the book, for which I thank him.
He also raises a couple of important points of criticism, for which I
also thank him. But he says some odd and
false things too.
Let’s take
these in order. Gage writes that Five Proofs is “an incredibly useful
book,” that “Feser is to be commended for interacting with a wide swath of
historical and contemporary literature,” and that my main arguments are “thorough
enough for philosophers while remaining accessible to a general audience – a
true accomplishment.” He judges that:
[T]he major arguments are incredibly
well-executed and likely sound. The
first five chapters will be profitable for undergraduates for years to
come. They are suitable for use in the
classroom, especially for elucidating difficult primary texts. They will introduce students not only to the
arguments (and their attendant metaphysics) but also let them see how
traditional natural theology entails a number of important divine attributes –
something sadly missing from much contemporary apologetics.
End
quote. Again, I thank Gage for his very
kind words.
Some useful points of criticism
Let’s turn
to Gage’s useful points of criticism. For
one thing, Gage wonders whether my arguments might be too dependent on
specifically Aristotelian-Thomistic (A-T) metaphysical premises. He doesn’t claim that these premises are
false or implausible, but merely worries that they might make my arguments less
attractive to some readers, and that they require a deeper defense than I
provide in the book.
In response
I would say the following. First, the
extent to which my arguments depend on A-T premises varies from argument to
argument. For example, the Aristotelian
proof is obviously more dependent on them than the rationalist proof is. Moreover, sometimes it is not the argument itself that presupposes A-T metaphysical
premises, but rather some particular reply
to a criticism of the argument that does so. This might seem a pedantic and irrelevant
distinction, but it is not.
Hence,
suppose that some reader is initially convinced by an argument from contingency
that appeals to the Principle of Sufficient Reason (PSR) but makes no reference
to any specifically A-T premises.
Suppose the reader is then presented with various objections to the
argument, such as the suggestion that it is the world itself rather than God
that is the necessary being, or such as a challenge to PSR. An A-T philosopher might reply to such
objections in a way other philosophers would not. For example, he might say that the world
cannot be a necessary being because it is a compound of actuality and
potentiality rather than pure actuality.
Or he might defend PSR by reference to the Scholastic idea that truth is
convertible with being, so that whatever has being must be intelligible. Now, if the reader in question rejects A-T
philosophy and thus rejects these particular responses to the criticisms in
question, it doesn’t follow that he will have to reject the argument from
contingency. For he might still find
some other responses to the
criticisms to be adequate.
All the
same, it has long been my own view that at least some specifically A-T
metaphysical premises are, ultimately,
crucial to getting things right in natural theology. For example, I think that the theory of
actuality and potentiality is crucial.
But then, I think the theory of actuality and potentiality is, ultimately, crucial to getting things
right in philosophy in general, not just in natural
theology. So, I would acknowledge that,
at the end of the day, my view is that the natural theologian should defend
such specifically A-T premises. But I
don’t see that as a problem. If
something is both true and highly consequential, as I think the theory of
actuality and potentiality is, then there’s no point in fretting that it will
be a tough sell with many people. It
needs to be defended, so defend it.
Indeed, as
I have complained before, a general problem with too much apologetics is
that it is excessively concerned with what will “sell” rather than with what is
true.
My view is that, just as a matter of principle, a serious apologist
should focus on the latter rather than the former. And it turns out that if you do that, and do
it well, the former will take care of itself.
Gage is also
right to say that more could be said in defense of the A-T premises I appeal to
than I say in Five Proofs. That was inevitable given that the book is
about natural theology rather than general metaphysics, and given that, in
philosophy, no matter what and how much
you say, there is always going to be
someone somewhere who retorts “Well, sure, but what about…” Of making books there is no end. But as it happens (and as Gage acknowledges)
I have in fact defended the relevant general A-T premises in greater depth
elsewhere, such as in my book Scholastic
Metaphysics.
A second
important point of criticism raised by Gage is that it isn’t clear, in his
view, that all of my arguments are really independent of one another. In particular, he worries that the four
proofs that reason from the world to God as cause of the world – the
Aristotelian proof, the Neo-Platonic proof, the Thomistic proof, and the
rationalist proof – are really just variations on an argument from contingency
rather than separate standalone arguments.
For example, he wonders whether the Aristotelian proof is really at the
end of the day an argument from change,
since the way I spell that argument out, it shifts from the question of why
things change to why they exist at any given moment.
In response,
I would say the following. First, though
the “many paths up the mountain” analogy is often abused in theological
contexts (when deployed in defense of a facile universalism), it is useful in
understanding the relationship between causal proofs of God’s existence. When you get to the top of a mountain, it looks pretty much the same, whatever
direction you are approaching it from.
But the north side of the bottom
of the mountain might nevertheless look very different from the south side, so
that the mountain will seem very different to climbers beginning from the north
side and climbers beginning from the south.
In the same
way, the notions of what is purely actual,
what is absolutely simple, what is subsistent existence itself, and what is
absolutely necessary are all at the
end of the day (I would argue) different ways of conceptualizing what is and
must be the same one reality. Hence the
closer you get to the conclusion of a causal argument for God’s existence, the
more the argument is going to seem similar to other causal arguments. Nevertheless, the starting points – the fact
that things in our experience change, the fact that they are composite, the
fact that they are caused, the fact that they are contingent – are going to be
very different.
Now, this is
important in a way that is also elucidated by the mountain analogy. Some climbers who may be unable or unwilling
to begin their ascent from one side of the mountain (because it is too rocky
for them, say) may be able to begin it from some other side. Similarly, some readers may initially find
the notions of contingency or of PSR problematic and thus be put off by the
rationalist proof, but find intuitively plausible the notion of change as the
actualization of potential, and thus find the Aristotelian proof
attractive. At the end of the day, I
think readers should find all of
these things plausible when they are rightly understood, but given the place some
particular reader is coming from philosophically, he might have a different
“break in” point from other readers. So
even if the proofs converge, it is intellectually helpful to see that there are
different conceptual avenues by which the idea of a divine first cause might be
arrived at.
Having said
that, I also think that the extent to which the proofs converge can be
overstated. As my remarks above
indicate, I think that one can go a long way in an argument from PSR before one
has to get into any distinctively Aristotelian notions like the actualization
of potential. And I think one can go a
long way in an Aristotelian proof before one has to say anything that sounds
distinctively “rationalist.” In these
two cases, it is arguably only when one has to get into the question of how
various objections might be replied to that defenders of the arguments might
end up saying some of the same things.
In the case
of the Aristotelian proof, it is true that I make a transition from the
question of why things change to the question of why they exist at any given
moment, and that it is the latter question that I am ultimately more interested
in. This makes my presentation of this
sort of argument different from Aristotle’s or Aquinas’s presentation. (That’s one reason I call it an “Aristotelian
proof” rather than “Aristotle’s proof.”)
But there is a reason why I begin with change, which is that the notions
of actuality and potentiality are much easier to grasp initially when one
applies them to an analysis of change over
time than when one applies them to an analysis of existence at a time. The latter notion is for many readers too
abstract to jump to immediately. So,
starting with change provides a useful “ladder” that may be kicked away once
one understands the general concepts and sees that they have a more general
application than just to the analysis of change.
Anyway, I
agree with Gage that other interpretations of the arguments I defend are
possible, and that it would be regrettable if those other interpretations were
neglected. And again, I thank him for
these remarks, to which I have responded at some length precisely because the
issues he raises are important.
Seeing things that aren’t there
Let’s turn
now to (what I judge to be) the odd and unhelpful things Gage has to say. Gage accuses the book of “some exasperating
flaws.” Like what? First of all, he claims that the book
includes “some of Feser’s favorite hobbyhorses.” Like what?
Gage writes:
Conspicuously absent from the first
five chapters are Feser’s constant refrains: how impressive traditional
theistic arguments are for being deductive metaphysical demonstrations rather
than probabilistic or scientific arguments (in which he fails to recognize the
power of inductive and abductive arguments), tangents about how foolish William
Paley and intelligent design are (with uncharitable misreadings of these
potential allies), and his blog-style ranting and braggadocio – often against
weak targets like the worst of the New Atheists. But they all return by the book’s end
(271-273, 287-289, 249-260), leaving a bitter aftertaste to a largely excellent
book. The whole thing concludes with an
unhelpful and supercilious “Quod erat demonstrandum”
(307).
End
quote. Now, I fail to see what the big
deal is about ending the book with “Quod
erat demonstrandum” – especially given that Gage himself says he regards my
main arguments as “incredibly well-executed and likely sound” – but let that
pass. The rest of this is just silly and
false.
First of
all, it simply isn’t true that the book describes Paley or Intelligent Design
as “foolish.” I mention Paley in exactly
two places in the book, at pp. 287-88 and at p. 303. In the first place, I merely note that the
arguments I am defending are in several ways different from Paley’s design
argument. In the second place, I merely
cite Paley in a long list of philosophers who have defending theistic
arguments. I also mention Intelligent
Design theory in exactly two places in the book, at p. 254 and at pp.
287-88. In the first place, I merely
note that atheists who raise a certain sort of objection against first cause
arguments would complain if a parallel objection were raised against evolution
by ID theorists. In the second place, I
merely note that the arguments I am defending differ in several ways from the
arguments of ID theorists. I mention
inductive or probabilistic arguments for God’s existence at exactly two places,
at pp. 287-88 and at p. 306. In both
cases I merely note that the arguments I am defending are not of the inductive
or probabilistic kind, but rather are attempts at demonstration.
Nowhere in
the book do I say that Paley, or ID theory, or probabilistic arguments are
“foolish.” Indeed, I do not even say in
the book that they are wrong. Again, I merely note that they are different from the sorts of arguments I
defend in the book. That’s it.
It’s not
mysterious what is going on here, though.
For I have, in other writings,
been very critical of Paley and of Intelligent Design theory. I have also, in other writings, made it clear that I much prefer demonstrations to
probabilistic arguments where natural theology is concerned (though I have also
explicitly said that I do not claim that probabilistic arguments for God’s
existence are per se
objectionable).
Now, Gage is
a big defender of Paley, ID, and probabilistic arguments for God, and he and I have tangled
over these very issues in the past.
Evidently, this past experience has colored Gage’s perceptions of what
he has read in Five Proofs. He is apparently so sensitive about criticisms
of Paley, ID, and probabilistic theistic arguments that he cannot bear even my distinguishing A-T arguments from those
sorts of arguments. All he needs is to
see that the words “Paley” or “Intelligent Design” or “probabilistic” appear in
something I have written, and he is triggered. He instantly takes my remarks in Five Proofs to be criticisms of these things, even though when read dispassionately
it is clear that they are not. So, while
there is definitely some “hobbyhorse” riding going on, it is all on Gage’s
part, not mine.
Something
similar can be said about Gage’s claim that Five
Proofs contains “blog-style ranting and braggadocio.” The astute reader will have noted that Gage
offers no examples of this purported ranting and braggadocio – and he couldn’t have, because in fact there
isn’t any such thing to be found in Five
Proofs. That is deliberate, because
I judged that a polemical style was not appropriate given the aims of this particular
book.
What is true
is that in other writings, I have sometimes (though in fact only
relatively rarely) written in a highly polemical style. For example, of the twelve books I have
written, co-written, or edited, there is exactly one – The
Last Superstition – that is written in that style. And occasionally I will write an article,
book review, or blog post in that style – typically when responding to some
other writer who was himself highly
polemical.
I have in other places
defended the appropriateness of this approach under certain circumstances. The point for present purposes is this. I have found over the years that certain
souls seem to be so gentle and sensitive that they just can’t bear this sort of
thing even when it is appropriate. My occasionally polemical style makes such
a deep impression on them that they simply can’t help but perceive everything I write as “blog-style
ranting and braggadocio.” This is
especially true when my past targets have included some of their own sacred
cows.
It seems
that something like this is going on with Gage.
My past polemical writings, perhaps especially those in which I have
criticized ID, have colored his perceptions.
Hence though the arguments and objections I present in Five Proofs are measured in tone, he
reads into them a “blog-style ranting and braggadocio” that isn’t there.
Some odd and unhelpful criticisms
The really
strange remarks Gage makes, though, are about the last two chapters of my book
– chapter 6, which treats the divine attributes and God’s relationship to the
world, and chapter 7, which is a general treatment of objections to natural
theology.
What annoys
him about chapter 6 is that there is some repetition of material from earlier
chapters, since after presenting each of my five theistic arguments in the
earlier chapters, I say something about how the divine attributes can be
derived. Gage thinks that I should
either have said nothing about the divine attributes in chapters 1-5 and saved
the entire discussion for chapter 6, or that I should have moved all the
material from chapter 6 into the earlier chapters.
It never
seems to have occurred to Gage that I had a reason for organizing things the
way I did – several reasons, in fact.
Here are some of the relevant considerations. First, one of the objections routinely raised
against arguments for God’s existence is that even if they get you to a first
cause, no one has ever shown that they get you to a cause that is unique,
omnipotent, omniscient, etc. There is,
it is claimed, always a big jump from the idea of a first cause to the divine
attributes. Now, as I show in Five Proofs and elsewhere, that is simply
not at all the case. Aristotle, Aquinas,
Leibniz, and other defenders of proofs for God’s existence in fact routinely
provide a wealth of argumentation for the divine attributes. But, as with the tiresome and clueless “What
caused God?” objection, people keep reflexively raising this objection no
matter how many times you refute it.
Consider
also that many readers will only bother reading a chapter or two from a book
like mine before drawing general conclusions about it. Hence if they read the chapter on the
Aristotelian proof but do not see in it any treatment of the divine attributes,
they will judge that I have overlooked the obvious objection that to prove the
existence of a purely actual actualizer is not to prove that such an actualizer
is unique, omnipotent, omniscient, etc.
And they will conclude that it isn’t worth their time to read any
further. This is silly, of course, and
not the way an academic philosopher like Gage or me would proceed. But it is the way a lot of people read and
judge books.
Consider too
that there are certain divine attributes the derivation of which is more clear
and natural when one begins with a particular theistic proof than it is when
one begins with some other such proof.
For example, when you deploy the Aristotelian proof to establish the
existence of a purely actual actualizer, it is quite natural to move on immediately
to argue for the immutability, omnipotence, and perfection of the purely actual
actualizer. The reason is that the
theory of actuality and potentiality provides analyses of change, causal power,
and perfection that can be quite naturally “plugged in” to the argument to yield
a derivation of these particular divine attributes. The derivation of the attributes isn’t some arbitrary
“add on” to the proof of the unactualized actualizer, but follows quite
naturally and directly from it. But the
same attributes are less directly or obviously derivable from, say, the notion
of the necessary being that is arrived at via the rationalist proof.
So, given
considerations like these, I judged that the best way to proceed would be to
say something in each of the first
five chapters about how the derivation of a purely actual actualizer, an
absolutely simple cause, an infinite intellect, a cause which is subsistent
existence itself, and an absolutely necessary being, could naturally be
extended to a derivation of some of the key divine attributes. The aim was to show that getting to the
divine attributes is an organic part
of the style of reasoning that each of the arguments deploys, and not something
either neglected or arbitrarily tacked on.
At the same
time, I couldn’t say everything that
needed to be said about the divine attributes in each of the first five
chapters, or even in any one of them, because the chapters would in that case
have become ridiculously long. For example,
if I had placed the material on the divine attributes from chapter 6 into
chapter 1, which is devoted to the Aristotelian proof, then chapter 1 would have
been about 120 pages long. It would also
have ended up dealing with matters that are not unique to the Aristotelian
proof, but are relevant to all the proofs.
Hence I
judged that the better way to proceed was to give a cursory treatment of the
divine attributes in chapters 1-5, and then return to a much more in-depth
treatment in chapter 6. This entailed a
bit of repetition, but as every good teacher knows, a bit of repetition is not
necessarily a bad thing, especially when giving an exposition of material that
is difficult and unfamiliar. And the
arguments for the divine attributes are – as Gage himself acknowledges – very unfamiliar to many people
interested in the topic of arguments for God’s existence.
So, though
of course a reasonable person might disagree with my judgment, there were reasons for it that Gage does not
consider. The way the book handles the divine
attributes was deliberate, and not,
contrary to what he suggests, a failure on the part of some editor. Gage seems to be the sort of reviewer who
complains that a book is not carefully tailored to his personal needs and interests, specifically – not keeping in
mind that any book has to consider the needs, interests, attention spans,
prejudices, etc. of many kinds of readers
all at once. And of course, no book can
do so perfectly, so that an author must make a judgment call. Anyway, as far as I can recall, Gage is the
only commenter on the book who has complained about there being a bit of repetition
on the topic of the divine attributes. Evidently,
most readers were not troubled by it.
Gage also
complains that chapter 6 includes a “digression on analogy,” a “misconstrual of
the standard account of knowledge,” a “facile discussion of God’s knowledge and
free will,” and a “defense of using male pronouns for God.” He says that this material only “serves to
try the reader’s patience.”
But once
again, Gage seems to be confusing his
personal needs and interests with those of readers in general. He doesn’t tell us exactly what is wrong with what I say about knowledge
or free will, so I don’t have anything to say in response to his remarks about
those topics. As far as my treatment of analogy
is concerned, it is by no means a “digression,” but integral to the chapter. I made it clear in the book why (for Thomists,
anyway) the notion of analogy is crucial to a proper understanding of the
divine attributes.
Regarding the
use of male pronouns for God, I have no idea why Gage would find it
objectionable that I should address that issue.
As I imagine everyone knows who has ever taught a course on religion or
philosophy of religion, it is a question that comes up all the time among
students, and general readers are no less interested in it. Furthermore, such language is crucial in
certain theological contexts (e.g. when the first two Persons of the Trinity
are referred to as the “Father” and the “Son”).
If Gage wants to disagree with the specific claims I made on this topic,
that’s fine. But to object to the very
fact that I addressed the issue at all is silly, indeed bizarre.
Finally,
Gage is similarly unhappy with my last chapter, wherein I deal with a wide
variety of general objections to arguments for God’s existence. He complains, for example, that I respond to “weak
targets like the worst of the New Atheists.”
But why is this a problem? For one
thing, I also respond, in the last chapter and throughout the book, to the more
serious critics. It’s not as if I reply
only to the New Atheists. For another,
what was I supposed to do – ignore the
objections raised by the New Atheists? Gage and I realize that their objections
are no good, but lots of other readers don’t realize this, and many of those
other readers will be unfamiliar with what I have said in reply to the New
Atheists in other books of mine, such as The
Last Superstition. Moreover, their
objections, however feeble, are very influential. So, I had no choice but to address their
objections, alongside the more serious objections. Yet again, Gage seems guilty of judging the
book in terms of his personal needs
and interests, rather than those of the bulk of the book’s readership.
But as I have said, Gage also makes some important and helpful points of criticism, and has some very kind things to say about my book. And even where I think his remarks are unreasonable, I appreciate his attempt to grapple seriously with what I have written. So, again, I thank him.
Do you plan to plan to respond to him in Philosophia Christi, too?
ReplyDeleteProbably not. I don't really have anything to add to what I said above.
DeleteThe biggest problem many reviewers have is that they love to forget that this books wasn´t targeted at an primarily academic audience
ReplyDeleteActually, it's aimed equally at both audiences at the same time -- both professional philosophers, and laymen willing to do a bit of work. While the book is actually readable rather than being freighted with needless logical symbolism or wooden prose, it's hardly a pop book. What too many contemporary academic philosophers forget is that it is possible, and desirable, to reach both audiences at once, as some philosophers of the past (e.g. Russell) tried to do and as some contemporary philosophers (e.g. Searle) still try to do. Too many people fall into this trap of thinking either "Oh, it's actually readable. It must be a mere popularization," or "Oh, it's got a lot of academic citations in it and gets into all this technical stuff about causation, substance and essence, properties, etc. It must be meant only for academics." It's not an either/or.
DeleteI agree. Dr. Feser’s writing style is as simple and commonsensical as possible without losing the substance of the concepts. I think part of it is because A-T metaphysics is very common sense oriented. However, even still, Feser’s writing style is easy to follow. The only thing I would like to see from Dr. Feser (especially on metaphysics) is perhaps more concrete exercises and examples for the general concepts (of course this is better for a blog than a book, because books have word count requirements). For example, is a rock a substance or an aggregate? What about a dirt clod? I think working out these uncontroversial but very difficult metaphysical questions could be a huge benefit to your blog readers.
DeleteMaybe even you could give a semi- open forum where you ask us to answer / debate 20 questions of the sort mentioned above (are viruses alive, etc.) and ask that people argue from an A-T perspective only. Then we could have a good old fashioned Scholastic Disputatio. Then Dr. Feser could give a blog post if his answers a few weeks later.
But asking Dr. Feser to write more could hardly be a criticism OF his writing.
Of course the relevance of the above comment being, no matter how clear a writer is, people learn most readily by abstracting from particulars. Some people need a plethora of particulars to truly grasp the concept. And I find the more the merrier, as they say.
DeleteOdds are any non-academic audience member who is interested enough to read this book in good faith won't be impressed with the New Atheist arguments. I was dissatisfied with amount of material on New Atheists too but to give Ed credit he deals with a lot more serious criticisms i.e. Grimm's omnipotence paradox, in the chapters on the individual arguments. He has also engaged more important critics like Graham Oppy elsewhere (hope the transcript of that debate will appear in print).
ReplyDeleteIt's not just a question of academics vs. non-academics. Lots of people who are not philosophers but who are still academics or intellectuals of another stripe parrot dumb objections like the ones raised by the New Atheists. I hear it all the time. And even many philosophers who do not specialize in philosophy of religion will raise those sorts of objections.
DeleteI'm not sure why some people here seem to think that it is only ill-read bumpkins posting comments on Facebook who think "What caused God?" and the like are serious objection, and thus get annoyed when I still address that sort of stuff in books. I've had very, very smart people with Ph.D's glibly fling those sorts of clueless remarks at me in conversation over the years, as if they were devastating conversation-stoppers which no one ever thought of before.
I think what happens is that people who have been reading this blog for years and are by now inoculated against silliness like that, who only ever encounter it in comboxes, and who are used to reading more serious material, unconsciously assume that everyone else is as "caught up" as they are. So when they read Five Proofs and see that I respond there once again to "What caused God?" and the other dumb objections alongside the more serious objections, they think that I am wasting time or bouncing the rubble or whatever.
What they don't realize is that there are lots of people who have never read any book or article of mine before they read Five Proofs, and indeed have never read any serious book on arguments for God's existence before they read Five Proofs, and for whom the stuff I say about the New Atheists (who are really just parroting objections that have been around long before Dawkins and Co. came around) is a revelation.
Keep in mind that my books are not aimed only at people who read this blog or who have already read my other stuff.
I personally thought the historical exegesis of the “What Caused God?” argument was worth the price of the book alone. I think more philosophers should trace the history of bad objections with that sort of precision, because it shows how small errors and misunderstandings in premises can lead to ridiculous conclusions.
DeleteAs a non academic, I find Ed's books well worth the read, even though I have not been able to completely read the entire book (I have seven kids), I was able to read, and reread the first argument, and have enough of an understanding, based on the arguments in Aquinas and in Scholastic metaphisics, to be able to defend it.
DeleteGod bless,
Daniel
Re: "Indeed, as I have complained before, a general problem with too much apologetics is that it is excessively concerned with what will “sell” rather than with what is true. My view is that, just as a matter of principle, a serious apologist should focus on the latter rather than the former. And it turns out that if you do that, and do it well, the former will take care of itself."
ReplyDeleteYes, this is always an important reminder. Thank you for this thought.
I agree. It is ALWAYS a sufficient answer to "but will it sell" to say "it's true" and that alone is enough to justify giving the argument. IT is a bonus when lots of people rather than just a few people believe it, but it is better that a few people believe the truth because of a valid argument for the truth, and let the masses come along through some other argument. Apologetics, for example uses many different approaches to the truth precisely because some people are better approached through X argument and some through Y argument. Nothing wrong with using X.
DeleteAt the same time, I find it highly suspect when people claim "but it won't sell". I suspect it because it seems to be based on one of two possible assumptions: either (a) the argument itself is a bad one, or (b) people are ill-disposed and will reject a good argument. Of course, if the argument REALLY IS a bad argument, then they should be complaining about the argument itself, not whether it will succeed in persuading. If (b) is the problem, then the problem lies in bad will, and the answer is in prayer and grace, but grace also works through natural causes, like hearing a good argument. So, pray AND make the good argument, it isn't a reason to NOT make a good argument.
To many people think that the defense of theism/Christianity requires a kind of mild, sheepish, docility. Those traits could be useful in some contexts, but I think they are counterproductive when talking to sneering, boorish, and ignorant people who are not engaging a discussion in good faith but just want to stroke their unfounded feelings of superiority.
DeleteHello, first visit here, so starting from scratch.
ReplyDeleteI'd be very interested to know if your analysis takes in to account that the vast majority of reality, space, does not fall neatly in to either the "exists" or "doesn't exist" categories.
I'm not debating the "does God exist" question here, but instead wondering whether the simplistic dualistic "exists or not" paradigm at the heart of the God debate bears enough resemblance to reality to be meaningful and useful.
Not challenging any of the competing answers, challenging the question.
Thanks!
Phil
Phil if you have in mind different status of physical and abstract objects like universals or thoughts then the classical theist would answer that they still would need to exist in the way which falls under the category argued for. The existence is what distinguishes them from illogical concepts like a squared circle which can´t exist in either category
DeleteHi Dominik, thanks for your reply.
DeleteI have in mind that space can not be clearly said to either exist or not exist, so I'm wondering why everyone on all sides of the God debate assumes a God must exist or not, one or the other.
That seems a very persistent and insistent assumption shared by all, which thus merits some examination.
Oh dear, the comment technology here is so primitive that I doubt I have the patience to deal with it. Apologies!
Delete@Phil Tanny
DeleteHello Phil,
I guess I am a bit confused. From a first principles, Logic point-of-view, we are dealing with the Law of the Excluded Middle. We have a binary condition, here. Either space (or space, time, space-time, etc.) exist, or it doesn't exist. There is not a third "state" of being.
Adding to that Plantingas modal ontological argument. Either God is a coherent concept which means that he exists possibly, therefor he exists actually. That part is completely uncontroversial. Or the concept is incoherent to begin with.
DeleteAlso I don´t see "space" as having any different status to other abstract concepts
DeleteI'm not debating the "does God exist" question here, but instead wondering whether the simplistic dualistic "exists or not" paradigm at the heart of the God debate bears enough resemblance to reality to be meaningful and useful.
DeleteNot challenging any of the competing answers, challenging the question.
Aristotle (the original aristotelian) provided for explanations of "things" that sort of exist but don't exist simply speaking and yet are not non-existent simply speaking. So it is not at all foreign to the mindset of Aristotelians to suggest that something is neither an "existent" simply nor "non-existent" simply.
But it hardly helps matters for God. One can easily posit that as long as you are willing to accept the proposition that God is not non-existent simply, i.e. that there is some sense for which he "exists" somehow or other, it is enough for a start.
In fact, the Thomist urges that it is NOT true that "God exists" in the same sense that I exist or Ed exists; the "exists" for God is quite different indeed. So much so, that we can't say "God has existence". However, it's not because God inhabits some zone kind of in-between "exists" and "not-exists", rather he inhabits a zone that goes beyond merely "exists" into some other range.
All successful arguments for God are variations on the theme that all the beings that we encounter are metaphysically composite and thus cannot be metaphysically ultimate, and a metaphysically ultimate being must exist to explain the existence of (meaning, provide the metaphysical ground for) metaphysically secondary beings.
ReplyDeleteAny argument that doesn't go there can and will be refuted, for any challenge to "explain this!" (metaphysically speaking) can be met by appealing to the nature of an existing metaphysically composite entity. (For instance, the First Way can be refuted by simply saying that it is the nature of fire to heat, and thus the chain of movers ends there; the fire hasn't been moved from "potentially heating" to "actually heating", as something being in the fire is a Cambridge change as far as the fire is concerned and not an intrinsic change to the fire.)
If instead, the demand is made for a contrastive explanation for contingent facts, the opponent will simply reply that the theist can also not provide a contrastive explanation for everything without ending in modal collapse.
I read the book, Ed, and encountered none of the difficulties that seem to plague Mr. Gage. I didn't need it to convince me that God exists, but to hone my thinking. It's good armament to bring to the battle, and even to the evangelistic enterprise.
ReplyDeleteThank you, Bill!
DeleteGood comments Ed.
ReplyDeleteGrateful to God (Omer)
Hi I’m reading the 5 proofs and I have stumbled upon something that I don’t understand about this formulation of the Aristotelian proof: howcome is it justified to say that at any moment there has to be an actualizer that actualises the potential for something to simply exist? For example you start from the case in which the coffee mug is actually hot and potentially cold. Fine, the cold air actualizes the potential for the coffee mug to cool down. How does this justify the leap to say that there has to be a constant agent that actualizes the coffee mug’s coming into being alltogether, it’s existence? You say that there has to be at any given moment an agent that actualizes the potential for it to exist. How can something have potential to exist if it already actually exists? The coffee mug already exists, and it’s coming into being shoould be considered as a past event, right?. Shouldn’t the argument based on potency and act regard change and not existence? The step I’m struggling with is number seven on the list of the summary: “the existence of S at any given moment itself presupposes the concurrent actualisation of S’s potential to exist”. It seems like one is jumping from an argument based on change to one based on existence. What’s relevant all of a sudden is not the actualisation of the potential to change but the actualisation of the potential to be in the first place. Why does this entail a concurrent actualisation? Isn’t the actuslisation of S independent of the actualisation of S’s potential to change? I’m not sure if I expressed my question correctly but it would be great to have an answer. Thank you and best wishes
ReplyDelete“8: So, any substance S has at any moment some actualizer A of its existence” seems hard to comprehend to me ( Aristotelian proof). Does this count only for the substance that is changing or for any substance in general, even one that is “static”? I don’t understand how it follows that things are constantly being caused.This formulation doesn’t seem to fit with the first way of st Thomas. Thanks and best wishes
ReplyDeletePlease explain steps 6-8 of the Aristotelian proof further I don’t understand why change as actualisation of potential entails that any substance must be constantly caused to be at any given moment. Thanks
ReplyDeleteI'm struggling with Dr. Feser's proofs as well. I would love to be convinced, but I just don't get how an 'unmoved, immutable mover', 'or 'purely actual actualizer' lacking any potential whatsoever can 'will the universe into existence'. Before the universe existed didn't the 'purely actual actualizer' have the *potential to create the universe*- and thereby require a cause? And indeed, how can an immutable being do anything at all (never mind intervene in the world, perform miracles, listen to/answer prayers, condemn sinners to hell, etc.). Any clarification of these points by Dr. Feser or those who understand his argument would be most appreciated!
ReplyDeleteAny replies to the fundamental concerns expressed by YF's post above about Dr. Feser's proofs? It's been 6 months...is this blog still active? Thanks in advance!
ReplyDeleteI'm only just now getting into the Aristotelian Proof of Dr. Feser and it seems like YF's question of potential on the part of the 'purely actual actualizer' is misplaced. I would surmise it's not the 'immovable mover' who had potential to create the universe, and thus requiring a cause, but the empty space that the creator resided in that had the potential to become the universe. This is consistent with this being as an actualizer. I will undoubtedly continue to keep reading, researching and studying these proofs.
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