Monday, June 29, 2015

Marriage and The Matrix


Suppose a bizarre skeptic seriously proposed -- not as a joke, not as dorm room bull session fodder, but seriously -- that you, he, and everyone else were part of a computer-generated virtual reality like the one featured in the science-fiction movie The Matrix.  Suppose he easily shot down the arguments you initially thought sufficient to refute him.  He might point out, for instance, that your appeals to what we know from common sense and science have no force, since they are (he insists) just part of the Matrix-generated illusion.  Suppose many of your friends were so impressed by this skeptic’s ability to defend his strange views -- and so unimpressed by your increasingly flustered responses -- that they came around to his side.  Suppose they got annoyed with you for not doing the same, and started to question your rationality and even your decency.  Your adherence to commonsense realism in the face of the skeptic’s arguments is, they say, just irrational prejudice.

No doubt you would think the world had gone mad, and you’d be right.  But you would still find it difficult to come up with arguments that would convince the skeptic and his followers.  The reason is not that their arguments are rationally and evidentially superior to yours, but on the contrary because they are so subversive of all rationality and evidence -- indeed, far more subversive than the skeptic and his followers themselves realize -- that you’d have trouble getting your bearings, and getting the skeptics to see that they had lost theirs.  If the skeptic were correct, not even his own arguments would be any good -- their apparent soundness could be just another illusion generated by the Matrix, making the whole position self-undermining.  Nor could he justifiably complain about your refusing to agree with him, nor take any delight in your friends’ agreement, since for all he knew both you and they might be Matrix-generated fictions anyway.

So, the skeptic’s position is ultimately incoherent.  But rhetorically he has an advantage.  With every move you try to make, he can simply refuse to concede the assumptions you need in order to make it, leaving you constantly scrambling to find new footing.  He will in the process be undermining his own position too, because his skepticism is so radical it takes down everything, including what he needs in order to make his position intelligible.  But it will be harder to see this at first, because he is playing offense and you are playing defense.  It falsely seems that you are the one making all the controversial assumptions whereas he is assuming nothing.  Hence, while your position is in fact rationally superior, it is the skeptic’s position that will, perversely, appear to be rationally superior.  People bizarrely give him the benefit of the doubt and put the burden of proof on you.

This, I submit, is the situation defenders of traditional sexual morality are in vis-à-vis the proponents of “same-sex marriage.”  The liberal position is a kind of radical skepticism, a calling into question of something that has always been part of common sense, viz. that marriage is inherently heterosexual.  Like belief in the reality of the external world -- or in the reality of the past, or the reality of other minds, or the reality of change, or any other part of common sense that philosophical skeptics have challenged -- what makes the claim in question hard to justify is not that it is unreasonable, but, on the contrary, that it has always been regarded as a paradigm of reasonableness.  Belief in the external world (or the past, or other minds, or change, etc.) has always been regarded as partially constitutive of rationality.  Hence, when some philosophical skeptic challenges it precisely in the name of rationality, the average person doesn’t know what to make of the challenge.  Disoriented, he responds with arguments that seem superficial, question-begging, dogmatic, or otherwise unimpressive.  Similarly, heterosexuality has always been regarded as constitutive of marriage.  Hence, when someone proposes that there can be such a thing as same-sex marriage, the average person is, in this case too, disoriented, and responds with arguments that appear similarly unimpressive.

Like the skeptic about the external world (or the past, or other minds, or change, etc.) the “same-sex marriage” advocate typically says things he has no right to say consistent with his skeptical arguments.  For example, if “same-sex marriage” is possible, why not incestuous marriage, or group marriage, or marriage to an animal, or marriage to a robot, or marriage to oneself?  A more radical application of the “same-sex marriage” advocate’s key moves can always be deployed by a yet more radical skeptic in order to defend these proposals.  Yet “same-sex marriage” advocates typically deny that they favor such proposals.  If appeal to the natural ends or proper functions of our faculties has no moral significance, then why should anyone care about whether anyone’s arguments -- including arguments either for or against “same-sex marriage” -- are any good?  The “same-sex marriage” advocate can hardly respond “But finding and endorsing sound arguments is what reason is for!”, since he claims that what our natural faculties and organs are naturally for is irrelevant to how we might legitimately choose to use them.  Indeed, he typically denies that our faculties and organs, or anything else for that matter, are really for anything.  Teleology, he claims, is an illusion.  But then it is an illusion that reason itself is really for anything, including arriving at truth.  In which case the “same-sex marriage” advocate has no business criticizing others for giving “bigoted” or otherwise bad arguments.  (Why shouldn’t someone give bigoted arguments if reason does not have truth as its natural end?  What if someone is just born with an orientation toward giving bigoted arguments?)  If the “same-sex marriage” advocate appeals to current Western majority opinion vis-à-vis homosexuality as a ground for his condemnation of what he labels “bigotry,” then where does he get off criticizing past Western majority opinion vis-à-vis homosexuality, or current non-Western moral opinion vis-à-vis homosexuality?   Etc. etc.

So, the “same-sex marriage” advocate’s position is ultimately incoherent.  Pushed through consistently, it takes down everything, including itself.  But rhetorically it has the same advantages as Matrix-style skepticism.  The “same-sex marriage” advocate is playing offense, and only calling things into doubt -- albeit selectively and inconsistently -- rather than putting forward any explicit positive position of his own, so that it falsely seems that it is only his opponent who is making controversial assumptions. 

Now, no one thinks the average person’s inability to give an impressive response to skepticism about the external world (or about the reality of the past, or other minds, etc.) makes it irrational for him to reject such skepticism.  And as it happens, even most highly educated people have difficulty adequately responding to external world skepticism.  If you ask the average natural scientist, or indeed even the average philosophy professor, to explain to you how to refute Cartesian skepticism, you’re not likely to get an answer that a clever philosopher couldn’t poke many holes in.  You almost have to be a philosopher who specializes in the analysis of radical philosophical skepticism really to get at the heart of what is wrong with it.  The reason is that such skepticism goes so deep in its challenge to our everyday understanding of notions like rationality, perception, reality, etc. that only someone who has thought long and carefully about those very notions is going to be able to understand and respond to the challenge.  The irony is that it turns out, then, that very few people can give a solid, rigorous philosophical defense of what everyone really knows to be true.  But it hardly follows that the commonsense belief in the external world can be rationally held only by those few people.

The same thing is true of the average person’s inability to give an impressive response to the “same-sex marriage” advocate’s challenge.  It is completely unsurprising that this should be the case, just as it is unsurprising that the average person lacks a powerful response to the Matrix-style skeptic.  In fact, as with commonsense realism about the external world, so too with traditional sexual morality, in the nature of the case relatively few people -- basically, traditional natural law theorists -- are going to be able to set out the complete philosophical defense of what the average person has, traditionally, believed.  But it doesn’t follow that the average person can’t be rational in affirming traditional sexual morality.  (For an exposition and defense of the traditional natural law approach, see “In Defense of the Perverted Faculty Argument,” in Neo-Scholastic Essays.) 

Indeed, the parallel with the Matrix scenario is even closer than what I’ve said so far suggests, for the implications of “same-sex marriage” are very radically skeptical.  The reason is this: We cannot make sense of the world’s being intelligible at all, or of the human intellect’s ability to understand it, unless we affirm a classical essentialist and teleological metaphysics.  But applying that metaphysics to the study of human nature entails a classical natural law understanding of ethics.  And that understanding of ethics in turn yields, among other things, a traditional account of sexual morality that rules out “same-sex marriage” in principle.  Hence, to defend “same-sex marriage” you have to reject natural law, which in turn requires rejecting a classical essentialist and teleological metaphysics, which in turn undermines the possibility of making intelligible either the world or the mind’s ability to understand it.  (Needles to say, these are large claims, but I’ve defended them all at length in various places.  For interested readers, the best place to start is, again, with the Neo-Scholastic Essays article.) 

Obviously, though, the radically skeptical implications are less direct in the case of “same-sex marriage” than they are in the Matrix scenario, which is why most people don’t see them.  And there is another difference.  There are lots of people who believe in “same-sex marriage,” but very few people who seriously entertain the Matrix hypothesis.  But imagine there was some kind of intense sensory pleasure associated with pretending that you were in the Matrix.  Suppose also that some people just had, for whatever reason -- environmental influences, heredity, or whatever -- a deep-seated tendency to take pleasure in the idea that they were living in a Matrix-style reality.  Then, I submit, lots of people would insist that we take the Matrix scenario seriously and some would even accuse those who scornfully rejected the idea of being insensitive bigots.  (Compare the points made in a recent post in which I discussed the special kind of irrationality people are prone to where sex is concerned, due to the intense pleasure associated with it.)

So, let’s add to my original scenario this further supposition -- that you are not only surrounded by people who take the Matrix theory seriously and scornfully dismiss your arguments against it, but some of them have a deep-seated tendency to take intense sensory pleasure in the idea that they live in the Matrix.  That, I submit, is the situation defenders of traditional sexual morality are in vis-à-vis the proponents of “same-sex marriage.”   Needless to say, it’s a pretty bad situation to be in.

But it’s actually worse even than that.  For suppose our imagined Matrix skeptic and his followers succeeded in intimidating a number of corporations into endorsing and funding their campaign to get the Matrix theory widely accepted, to propagandize for it in movies and television shows, etc.  Suppose mobs of Matrix theorists occasionally threatened to boycott or even burn down bakeries, restaurants, etc. which refused to cater the meetings of Matrix theorists.  Suppose they stopped even listening to the defenders of commonsense realism, but just shouted “Bigot!  Bigot!  Bigot!” in response to any expression of disagreement.  Suppose the Supreme Court of the United States declared that agreement with the Matrix theory is required by the Constitution, and opined that adherence to commonsense realism stems from an irrational animus against Matrix theorists. 

In fact, the current position of opponents of “same-sex marriage” is worse even than that.  Consider once again your situation as you try to reason with Matrix theorists and rebut their increasingly aggressive attempts to impose their doctrine via economic and political force.  Suppose that as you look around, you notice that some of your allies are starting to slink away from the field of battle.  One of them says: “Well, you know, we have sometimes been very insulting to believers in the Matrix theory.  Who can blame them for being angry at us?  Maybe we should focus more on correcting our own attitudes and less on changing their minds.”  Another suggests: “Maybe we’ve been talking too much about this debate between the Matrix theory and commonsense realism.  We sound like we’re obsessed with it.  Maybe we should talk about something else instead, like poverty or the environment.”  A third opines: “We can natter on about philosophy all we want, but the bottom line is that scripture says that the world outside our minds is real.  The trouble is that we’ve gotten away from the Bible.  Maybe we should withdraw into our own faith communities and just try to live our biblically-based belief in external reality the best we can.”

Needless to say, all of this is bound only to make things worse.  The Matrix theory advocate will smell blood, regarding these flaccid avowals as tacit admissions that commonsense realism about the external world really has no rational basis but is simply a historically contingent prejudice grounded in religious dogma.  And in your battle with the Matrix theorists you’ll have discovered, as many “same-sex marriage” opponents have, that iron law of politics: that when you try to fight the Evil Party you soon find that most of your allies are card-carrying members of the Stupid Party.

So, things look pretty bad.  But like the defender of our commonsense belief in the external world, the opponent of “same-sex marriage” has at least one reliable ally on his side: reality.  And reality absolutely always wins out in the end.  It always wins at least partially even in the short run -- no one ever is or could be a consistent skeptic -- and wins completely in the long run.  The trouble is just that the enemies of reality, though doomed, can do a hell of lot of damage in the meantime. 

418 comments:

  1. Santi, stop whining. We have been through this many times. Your reception has little to do with your views but everything to do with your tendency to pour out rhetorical bilge instead of argument. Argue properly, remove the useless and generally silly rhetoric, and you will be greeted warmly.

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  2. You know, one sort of funny thing about being a Christian is that, when someone else accuses you of being a bad Christian, you can always just agree. So Santi and I are in accord at least on that point.

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  3. Gentlemen:

    The emotion of disgust--and the politics of disgust (as Martha Nussbaum calls it)--is a curious tack for some of your arguments to take, so I have a question for you: we have a distinct disgust generally for the thought of mating with animals outside of our own species, don't you agree?

    But if we took our cue to behavior from disgust, don't you agree that we wouldn't be here?

    In other words, our very species is a product of hybrid encounters with primate cousins of different species all along the route of our evolutionary history.

    So if you take the emotion of disgust as a signal of the correctness of your metaphysics, you might be quite surprised to learn counter-factuals from evolutionary history.

    For instance, geneticists and physical anthropologists are convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that humans are the product of numerous hybrid encounters with other species.

    Primates can actually mate with one another, even after two million years of evolutionary separation. Did you know that?

    And geneticists and anthropologists find extensive evidence that our pre-human primate cousins kept separating, evolving, then encountering each other again. Denisovans, Neanderthals, and modern humans last shared a common ancestor a million years ago (for instance), yet interbred repeatedly over the last 125,000 years.

    A subpopulation in Africa has been found to contain DNA (picked up over the past 40,000 years) from a species only recently extinct. That primate cousin branched from modern humans 700,000 years ago--and we didn't even know the species existed until stumbling upon it in the DNA of a man living in the United States! (I'm sure the full story of this incident can be found online with a Google search.)

    My point is that the method of contingent behavioral variation that we might take as conventionally disgusting is how God (if a personal God exists) created us. Personal disgust is not a good measure for determining what evolution and God are up to in preserving a trait.

    Put another way, we are all hybrid and contingent MUTS that will find the behavior of many others of our species quite astonishing ("How could they do that, believe what they do, worship God that way, like that sort of food, have that sort of sex?!?").

    To live in peace together, we all need to increase our circle of empathy for the contingent uniqueness of each individual, and this means that even monotheists (if they're not fundamentalists) ought to reconsider the non-trivial nature of gay and lesbian intimate relationships.

    If biologists are telling us that gay and lesbian behavior has a substantial hereditary and hormonal component, and we ignore this, we're doing the same sort of thing in calling a gay or lesbian person "disordered," "disgusting," or "pathetic" as calling a person of a race different from our own "genetically inferior." It is a form of bigotry akin to racism.

    The biology component is being avoided here, pretending that metaphysics can wash the subject to the margins of the swimming pool, but it really can't be.

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  4. What's interesting to me when considering posts like Ed's is how it exposes the disdain that comes from people who come out of the woodwork to defend what gets cast as LGBT people (as if they're a singular and monolithic group who all have the same opinions and desires about sexuality, even if they think sodomy is right.)

    It's probably a symptom of the modernist mindset more than anything, where people are reduced to machines meant to be tuned and used for personal ends. "LGBT people" are seen, even by some other LGBT people, as tools: and liberals use them, heartlessly, to further their own agendas, with little regard or concern for their health or safety, physical or mental. In an age where sexually transmitted claim lives and even contraception often at best stymies rather than completely safeguards one against sexual illness, they champion unrestricted sexual indulgence (And if some people die, or are damaged, or abused, or even raped in the process, oh well. We have more important things to worry about.) When faced with arguments and evidence that sodomy in general is harmful, they do everything they can to cast a blind eye to it, pretend it doesn't happen, and pretend that abstinence is unworkable.

    Rather similar to people demanding that no child be vaccinated against diseases, because they are just *convinced* that vaccination isn't helping anyone and is in fact dangerous, just as abstinence from anal sex is monstrous and wouldn't really stem any harm anyway.

    There's a lot of reasons why the social leftist does this, but one central reason is this: a hatred of love, and that which underscores love. Partly because many of them have been denied love in their lives, or been hurt by it, but also because many of them have found that, as difficult as it can be to truly love someone (since true love often involves denial, or sacrifice), they can instead draw pleasure from warping love into sex and sodomy. Notice that on their view, love is pointless, even harmful, if it isn't paired with sodomy and anal sex. But by the same token, sodomy is viewed as a good in itself, with no downside, even if it's devoid of love.

    Because for them, love doesn't matter. In fact, love is the enemy of the social liberal, for the same reason God, religion, free thought, and science are enemies: because they breed rebellion against their personal desires and whims, since any of those things may and usually do forge commitments that run afoul of their hate. All of those things are only good, and only to be valued, insofar as they advance their own political and social goals: otherwise they are to be denied, abandoned, warped or attacked.

    The social liberal's enemy is love, ladies and gentlemen. Which is precisely why they try to deny it to others, and offer only bitterness, hatred and spite in its place.

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  5. Your reception has little to do with your views but everything to do with your tendency to pour out rhetorical bilge instead of argument.

    And so, in response, rhetorical bilge pours out.

    Argue properly, remove the useless and generally silly rhetoric, and you will be greeted warmly.

    Those who can, do. Those who can't, pump bilge and are ignored.

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  6. Great way to straw man. The big, bad liberals don't support love, just the dirty pitch and catch of anal intercourse. If you can't grapple with my actual arguments (I've made numerous excellent ones), then your strategy is to demonize liberals, kick up ad hominem, psychologize, and evoke disgust to win your point. I get it. Prime readers to prejudice. What you're doing is called fanning populist resentment--or, to put it more directly, you're indulging in demagoguery.

    But Feser himself complained in this very post that he and his fellow anti-gay marriage obsessives are off balance on this issue (in terms of putting forward plausible arguments).

    When Feser describes arguments for gay marriage as causing him and others to feel “Disoriented,” and says he is forced to correct them “with arguments that seem superficial, question-begging, dogmatic, or otherwise unimpressive,” his complaint is not just mere fussiness, but a revealing admission of his actual relation to the uncertainties he puts forward as certainties. He is persuasive only to the choir.

    What he's not acknowledging is that, in reality, virtually all of life is a pragmatic grappling with the fog of contingent situations. Our metaphysical premises can only reach so far (at least with any confidence). This is evident to all but the most insistently self-deluded.

    And, after the Holocaust, you have to be quite obtuse to think you've got the whole personal-God-active-in-history thing figured out; that you know what God is and wants.

    So in reasoning about how to treat gay civil marriage (not religious marriage) in a diverse and democratic society, Feser is a philosopher who has forgotten the existential and epistemic caution of Socrates--and the good sense of post-Holocaust Jewish philosophers like Theodor Adorno.

    Experiment and epistemic doubt are democracy’s engines. Feser rejects both.

    Beckett’s “Waiting for Godot” is a better model for democracy than Feser’s top-down, “Go Tell It on the Mountain” metaphysics. While waiting for the miracle to come—the arrival of God or Godot—Vladimir and Estragon hang out and experiment, doing their best to make life tolerable in a situation where information is incomplete.

    Like two old gay men, they love and look after one another. Gay and lesbian intimacy, contra Anonymous, is not just about the old pitch and catch (accompanied by the use of the hand, the breath, the leg, the foot, the voice, the breasts, the ass, the vagina, the clitoris, the ear, the mouth, or the tongue). To pretend that this is what the gay civil rights triumph in the Supreme Court amounts to is the pure trivializing of gay and lesbian intimate relationships.

    Couples couple--and they're a couple.

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  7. Santi, go away.

    Don't you understand you are literally wasting your time and that of everyone else by posting such nonsense?

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  8. >>Couples couple--and they're a couple.

    If we look at it as a pure numerical entity - two makes a couple, then yes. But when I see two elderly people of the opposite sex together taking a walk in the park, and then I see two old gay men on the cover of Macklemore's "Same Love" album I say quietly to myself, "Nope. Ain't the same. Ain't love. It's weird. It's f_cked up. What a waste of a relationship. And I'm not sorry."

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  9. This is Singaporean' Thio Li-Ann talking about homosexuality -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vscnsmHyGhA (first part)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2DKbml30ZQ (second part)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k7quThqw4M (third part)

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  10. Golden Apple:

    It's the "I'm not sorry" part of your comment that trips me up if this translates into a power play: segregation laws against gays and lesbians (such as excluding them as American citizens and taxpayers from equal access to civil marriage).

    Heterosexual white males with above-average incomes—the chief drivers of the opposition to gay marriage—ought to think very carefully about what it means, given America’s history, to police the sexual boundaries and render trivial the intimate relationships of African American lesbians (for instance).

    It’s not just a gay white male thing. Gay marriage is now a legal option for the 37% of American taxpayers who are not white, the 50% of Americans who are not male, and the 90% of Americans who are not rich.

    I like something the African American novelist Ralph Ellison said in interview in 1955: “All novels are about certain minorities: the individual is a minority. The universal in the novel—and isn’t that what we’re all clamoring for these days?—is reached only through the depiction of the specific man in a specific circumstance. There’s nothing, after all, that is more intimate or intrusive as an outsider dictating what you do (or don’t do) with your body.”

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  11. "There’s nothing…that is more intimate or intrusive as an outsider dictating what you do (or don’t do) with your body."

    It comes as a perpetual surprise to me every time I encounter the mindset that regards merely saying Hey, you shouldn't stick needles in your eyeballs as dictatorial.

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  12. It comes as a perpetual surprise to me every time I encounter the mindset that regards merely saying Hey, you shouldn't stick needles in your eyeballs as dictatorial.

    Even sexually, the response is a lie.

    Show me the person who thinks it's offensive to tell people that they should use contraception when having sex. The same people who collapse in tears, mortified that someone would ever tell them what they should or shouldn't do with their body, will insist that people not just hear but accept being told what their sexual practices should be.

    This despite the fact that condoms make sex worse more often than not.

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  13. Show me the person who thinks it's offensive to tell people that they should use contraception when having sex.

    Yes, exactly. When I don't mind doing A, Do A is giving friendly advice and Don't do A is dictating.

    Moreover, I suspect that someone who opposed contraception, although s/he might find the advice to use it in some way "offensive," wouldn't find the advice dictatorial as long as s/he wasn't being forced to follow it. Yet there are people in this world who are "offended" by the very existence of people who don't morally approve of their behavior. It's a curious asymmetry.

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  14. Jeremy Taylor: Don't you understand you are literally wasting your time and that of everyone else by posting such nonsense?

    Ah, but note well that an Internet troll is not someone who posts nonsense because he doesn't understand or is too lazy to inform himself or has no social graces. A troll is a conversational vandal, someone whose very goal is to make trouble, to manipulate people by provoking them. That's why paying them any attention at all is to feed them. Telling one to go away, for whatever good reason, is like telling the bears to stay away from your campsite because that bag you left sitting there is nothing but garbage.

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  15. Scott,

    This isn't about mere moral approbation or simple advice on what one "shouldn't" do. You, of all people in these threads, trained in law, should know that for the vast majority of monotheists in this thread--and including Feser--gay marriage is about power; the power to name, and the power to enforce the name.

    Christians bow to no other name but Jesus; Muslims to no other name but Allah--and these deities are believed, by their respective communities, to have, for all time, defined what marriage is for everyone in every place. These deities are totalists. There is no "civil marriage;" no "gay marriage." Not really. Hence Feser's scare quotes on gay marriage.

    Contemporary conservative forms of Christianity and Islam are not like contemporary forms of Orthodox Judaism. Orthodox Jews have no desire to convert, and they're generally content to treat sexual mores as a matter of their own internal affairs (if you're part of the Jewish community, we do x; if not, just leave us alone and you do whatever it is you do).

    This isn't the missionary monotheist's model. Traditionalist and fundamentalist Christians and Muslims are not this relaxed. They have a more manic relationship to false gods (such as gay marriage) that alternates wildly between martyrdom and iconoclasm. They're not interested in dialogue with Otherness, or living with it, but in defeating it. It's what Egyptologist Jan Assmann calls "the price of monotheism."

    It's been thus since Akhenaten. Extreme alternations between non-cooperation and intolerance in missionary monotheism is not a bug, it's a feature. This is why brushes with the secular law are so frequent, contentious, and emotional on such matters as gay marriage.

    The false gods cannot be cooperated with, so secular leaders have a balancing act to pull off: as they secure the equality of the gay and lesbian minority, they've also got to give Christians and Muslims broad leeway to say no to cooperation with gay and lesbian behavior.

    That's why I have supported from day one carve outs for conscientious objectors to gay marriage (wedding cake makers, etc.). If you don't provide legal carve outs, the non-cooperation will occur in any event, and you'll simply generate Internet martyrs (the pizza parlor owner, etc.).

    The flip problem comes when conservative Christians and Muslims reach political power. They tend to have less interest in maintaining the balancing acts promoted by secular Constitutional lawyers. Not content with "live and let live," they go into Akhenaten mode: they're ever ready to set the power of the state to the task of knocking down the idols of contemporary secular liberalism. Non-cooperation with the baking of wedding cakes switches, on the attainment of power, to reversals of gay and lesbian liberty--which then drives gays and lesbians to seek redress in the courts.

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  16. Moreover, I suspect that someone who opposed contraception, although s/he might find the advice to use it in some way "offensive," wouldn't find the advice dictatorial as long as s/he wasn't being forced to follow it. Yet there are people in this world who are "offended" by the very existence of people who don't morally approve of their behavior. It's a curious asymmetry.

    Basically, yeah. The people who are offended and hurt and psychologically damaged by the very existence of people who disagree with them or their sexual behaviors (to the point where they think the criticisms should be illegal) are psychologically fragile to the point where... well.

    One would have to call them objectively disordered, now wouldn't one?

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  17. Or just that they are screwed up. Err, screwed, anyway. Err, in a bad way, that is.

    Now you know how bad the gay tyranny is, you can't even use good ole nasty language to describe it. Took the words right out of my mouth, they did.

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  18. Perhaps it is time to suggest to him that his desire for the passionate embrace of a man can be met by developing a spousal relationship with Christ. Marry Christ, submit himself to Christ, and direct his desires toward Christ. That inward desire to passionately embrace a man can be disordered if fulfilled in the arms of a human man, but it can become ordered toward his highest good if directed toward God.

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