Friday, September 19, 2014

Q.E.D.?


The Catholic Church makes some bold claims about what can be known about God via unaided reason.  The First Vatican Council teaches:

The same Holy mother Church holds and teaches that God, the source and end of all things, can be known with certainty from the consideration of created things, by the natural power of human reason…

If anyone says that the one, true God, our creator and lord, cannot be known with certainty from the things that have been made, by the natural light of human reason: let him be anathema.

In Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII reaffirmed this teaching and made clear what were in his view the specific philosophical means by which this natural knowledge of God could best be articulated, and which were most in line with Catholic doctrine:

[H]uman reason by its own natural force and light can arrive at a true and certain knowledge of the one personal God, Who by His providence watches over and governs the world…

[I]t falls to reason to demonstrate with certainty the existence of God, personal and one… But reason can perform these functions safely and well only when properly trained, that is, when imbued with that sound philosophy which has long been, as it were, a patrimony handed down by earlier Christian ages, and which moreover possesses an authority of an even higher order, since the Teaching Authority of the Church, in the light of divine revelation itself, has weighed its fundamental tenets, which have been elaborated and defined little by little by men of great genius.  For this philosophy, acknowledged and accepted by the Church, safeguards the genuine validity of human knowledge, the unshakable metaphysical principles of sufficient reason, causality, and finality, and finally the mind's ability to attain certain and unchangeable truth.

Of course this philosophy deals with much that neither directly nor indirectly touches faith or morals, and which consequently the Church leaves to the free discussion of experts.  But this does not hold for many other things, especially those principles and fundamental tenets to which We have just referred…

If one considers all this well, he will easily see why the Church demands that future priests be instructed in philosophy "according to the method, doctrine, and principles of the Angelic Doctor," since, as we well know from the experience of centuries, the method of Aquinas is singularly preeminent both of teaching students and for bringing truth to light…

End quote.  Similarly, in his address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences of November 22, 1951, Pius XII says:

[T]he human intellect approaches that demonstration of the existence of God which Christian wisdom recognizes in those philosophical arguments which have been carefully examined throughout the centuries by giants in the world of knowledge, and which are already well known to you in the presentation of the "five ways" which the Angelic Doctor, St. Thomas, offers as a speedy and safe road to lead the mind to God.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church reaffirms the teaching of Vatican I and of Pius XII that God’s existence can be known with certainty by the natural light of human reason, and even teaches, more specifically, that we can “attain certainty” about God’s existence via “proofs” which begin “from movement, becoming, contingency, and the world's order and beauty.”  Most of these are, of course, among the approaches taken by Aquinas’s Five Ways.  In Fides et Ratio, Pope St. John Paul II also reaffirmed the teaching of Vatican I and Pius XII on the power of human reason in theological matters:

[T]he First Vatican Council… pronounced solemnly on the relationship between reason and faith. The teaching contained in this document strongly and positively marked the philosophical research of many believers and remains today a standard reference-point for correct and coherent Christian thinking in this regard…

Against the temptations of fideism… it was necessary to stress the unity of truth and thus the positive contribution which rational knowledge can and must make to faith's knowledge…

Surveying the situation today, we see that the problems of other times have returned…

There are… signs of a resurgence of fideism, which fails to recognize the importance of rational knowledge and philosophical discourse for the understanding of faith, indeed for the very possibility of belief in God…

[M]odes of latent fideism appear in the scant consideration accorded to speculative theology, and in disdain for the classical philosophy from which the terms of both the understanding of faith and the actual formulation of dogma have been drawn. My revered Predecessor Pope Pius XII warned against such neglect of the philosophical tradition and against abandonment of the traditional terminology…

Pope Leo XIII… revisited and developed the First Vatican Council's teaching on the relationship between faith and reason, showing how philosophical thinking contributes in fundamental ways to faith and theological learning.  More than a century later, many of the insights of his Encyclical Letter have lost none of their interest from either a practical or pedagogical point of view—most particularly, his insistence upon the incomparable value of the philosophy of Saint Thomas.  A renewed insistence upon the thought of the Angelic Doctor seemed to Pope Leo XIII the best way to recover the practice of a philosophy consonant with the demands of faith.

End quote.  To be sure, the Church has not officially endorsed any specific formulation of any particular argument for God’s existence.  All the same, in her authoritative documents she has gone so far as to speak of God’s existence as something susceptible of “certainty,” “demonstration,” and “proof”; has commended “classical philosophy” specifically as providing the best means of showing how this is possible; and has held up Aquinas and the general approaches taken in his Five Ways as exemplary.  Pius XII even went so far as to imply that the “metaphysical principles of sufficient reason, causality, and finality” -- to which formulations of arguments like Aquinas’s typically appeal -- are not only “unshakable” but are so connected to matters of faith and morals that they are not among the things to be left to “free discussion” among theologians. 

Quod erat demonstrandum?

Needless to say, many modern readers find all of this baffling.  They find it baffling that anyone could be so confident that God’s existence is demonstrable, and baffling that anyone could think it demonstrable in the specific way in question -- via arguments like Aquinas’s Five Ways and metaphysical principles like the principle of causality, the principle of sufficient reason, etc.  Indeed, they think it obvious that God’s existence is not demonstrable, and obvious that arguments like the ones in question do not work.

Though this attitude is common and even held with great confidence, there is no good justification for it.  There are three main problems with it.  The first is that those who exhibit it typically do not even understand what writers like Aquinas actually said, and aim their dismissive objections at crude caricatures.  I have documented this at length in several places, and will not repeat here what I’ve already said elsewhere (such as in my book Aquinas, in my Midwest Studies in Philosophy article “The New Atheists and the Cosmological Argument,” and in blog posts like this one, this one, and others).  Suffice it to say that if a skeptic assures you that cosmological arguments essentially rest on the premise that “everything has a cause,” or supposes that Aquinas was trying to prove that the world had a beginning in time, or suggests that Aquinas never explains why we should suppose a First Cause to have divine attributes like unity, omniscience, omnipotence, etc., that is an absolutely infallible sign that he is utterly incompetent to speak on the subject. 

A second problem is that those who are dismissive of the very idea that the existence of God might be demonstrable typically hold arguments for God’s existence to a standard to which they do not hold other arguments.  For instance, the mere fact that someone somewhere has raised an objection against an argument for God’s existence is commonly treated by skeptics as showing that “the argument fails” – as if an argument is a good one only if no one objects to it but all assent to it upon hearing it.   Of course, skeptics do not treat other philosophical arguments this way.  That an argument for materialism, or against free will, or whatever, has its critics is not taken to show that those arguments “fail.”  The attitude in these cases is rather: “Well, sure, like any philosophical argument, this one has its critics, but that doesn’t mean the critics are right.  At the end of the day, the objections might be answerable and the argument ultimately correct, and we need to keep an open mind about it and consider what might be said in its defense.”  In general, even the most eccentric philosophical arguments are treated as if they are always “on the table” as options worthy of reconsideration.  Mysteriously, though, arguments for God’s existence are refused this courtesy.  The mere fact that Hume (say) said such-and-such two centuries ago is often treated as if it constituted a once-and-for-all decisive refutation. 

Related to this is a tendency to approach the subject as if a successful argument for God’s existence should be the sort of thing that can be stated fairly briefly in a way that will convince even the most hardened skeptic.  Again, no one treats other arguments this way.  If a fifty page article on materialism, free will, utilitarianism, etc. fails to convince you, the author will say that you need to read his book.  If the book fails to convince you, he will then say that the problem is that you have to master the general literature on the subject.  If that literature fails to convince you, then he will say that the issue is a large one that you cannot reasonably expect anyone decisively to settle to the satisfaction of all parties. 

By contrast, if you suggest that the existence of God can be demonstrated, many a skeptic will demand that you accomplish this in an argument of the sort which might be summarized in the space of a blog post.  If such an argument fails to convince him, he will judge that it isn’t worth any more of his time, and if you tell him that he would need to read a book or even a large body of literature fully to understand the argument, he might even treat this (bizarrely) as if it made it even less likely that the argument is any good! 

Then there is the common tendency to suggest that defenders of arguments for God’s existence have ulterior motives that should make us suspicious of their very project.  Once again, the skeptic does not treat other arguments this way.  He doesn’t say: “Well, you have to be very wary of arguments against free will or for revisionist moral conclusions, because their proponents are no doubt trying to rationalize some sort of activity traditionally frowned upon.” Nor does he say: “Atheist arguments are always suspect, of course, given that people would like to find a way to justify rejecting religious practices and prohibitions they find onerous.”  For some reason, though, the very fact that a philosopher defends an argument for God’s existence is treated as if it should raise our suspicions.  “Oh, he must have some religious agenda he’s trying to rationalize!”

Now there is no good reason whatsoever for these double standards.  They reflect nothing more the unreflective prejudices of (some) atheists and skeptics, and in some cases maybe something worse – a dishonest rhetorical tactic intended to poison otherwise fair-minded people against taking arguments for God’s existence very seriously.  But I submit that these unjustifiable double standards play a major role in fostering the attitude that there is something fishy about the very idea of demonstrating the existence of God. 

A third, and perhaps not unrelated, problem with this attitude is that those who take it often misunderstand what a thinker like Aquinas means when he says that the existence of God can be “demonstrated.”  What is meant is that the conclusion that God exists follows with necessity or deductive validity from premises that are certain, where the certainty of the premises can in turn be shown via metaphysical analysis.  That entails that such a demonstration gives us knowledge that is more secure than what any scientific inference can give us (as “science” is generally understood today), in two respects.  First, the inference is not a merely probabilistic one, nor an “argument to the best explanation” which appeals to considerations like parsimony, fit with existing background theory, etc.; it is, again, instead a strict deduction to what is claimed to follow necessarily from the premises.  Second, the premises cannot be overthrown by further empirical inquiry, because they have to do with what any possible empirical inquiry must presuppose.

For example, Aristotelian arguments from motion begin with the premise that change occurs, together with premises to the effect that a potential can be actualized only by what is already actual (the principle of causality) and that an essentially ordered series of causes cannot regress to infinity.  The first premise is in a sense empirical, which is why the argument is not a priori.  We know that change occurs because we experience it.  However, it is not a premise which can be overthrown by further empirical inquiry, because any possible future experience will itself be a further instance of change.  (We can coherently hold, on empirical grounds, that this or that purported instance of change is unreal; but we cannot coherently maintain on empirical grounds that all change is unreal.)  The other premises can be defended by various metaphysical arguments, such as arguments to the effect that the principle of causality follows from the principle of sufficient reason (PSR), and that PSR rightly understood can be established via reductio ad absurdum of any attempt to deny it.  (See Scholastic Metaphysics for detailed defense of the background principles presupposed by Thomistic arguments for God’s existence.)

Now, the problem is this.  Contemporary philosophers tend to work within a conceptual straightjacket inherited from the early modern philosophers.  In particular, and where epistemological matters are concerned, they tend to think in terms inherited from the rationalists, the empiricists, and Kant.  Hence when you put forward an argument that you claim is not an inference of empirical science, they tend to think that the only other thing it can be is either some sort of “conceptual analysis” (essentially a watered-down Kantianism) or an attempt at rationalist apriorism.  And since arguments for God’s existence are obviously attempts to arrive at a conclusion about mind-independent reality itself rather than merely about how we think about reality or conceptualize reality, the assumption is that if you argue for God’s existence in a way that does not involve an inference of the sort familiar in empirical science, then you must be doing something of the Cartesian or Leibnizian rationalist sort.

As I argue in Scholastic Metaphysics, this is simply a false choice.  Thomists reject the entire rationalist/empiricist/Kantian dialectic, and maintain an epistemological position that predated these views.  But modern readers who are unfamiliar with this position, and falsely suppose that it must be an exercise in rationalist metaphysics, sometimes come to expect the trappings of rationalist metaphysics.  In particular, they will expect geometry-style proofs, highly formalized arguments from axioms and definitions, which can be stated crisply in the course of a few pages and be seen either to succeed or fail upon a fairly cursory examination.  When a Thomist does not put forward an argument in this style, the skeptic supposes that he has failed to produce a true demonstration.  But this simply mistakes one kind of demonstration for demonstration as such, and begs the question against the Thomist, who rejects rationalist epistemology and methodology.  (Students of the Neo-Scholastic period of the history of Thomism will be familiar with Thomist criticisms of “essentialism” -- in Gilson’s specialized sense of that term, which is different from the way I or David Oderberg use it -- and of “ontologism.”  These are essentially criticisms of the Leibnizian rationalist approach to metaphysics and natural theology.)

Presenting theistic arguments in this pseudo-geometrical formalized style can in fact inadvertently foster misunderstandings, which is why I tend to avoid that style.  You can, of course, set out an argument like the Aristotelian argument from motion in a series of numbered steps, as I do in my ACPQ article “Existential Inertia and the Five Ways.”  However, the argument contains a number of crucial technical terms -- “actuality,” “potency,” “essentially ordered,” etc. -- which are not explained in the argument thus stated.  Even if you somehow worked definitions of these key terms into the formalized statement of the argument, that would simply push the problem back a stage, since you would have to make use of further concepts not defined in the formalized statement of the argument.  The idea that such an argument (or any metaphysical argument) could be entirely formalized is a rationalist fantasy.

The trouble is that by presenting such semi-formalized arguments -- “Here’s the proof in ten steps” -- you risk encouraging the lazier sort of skeptic in his delusion that if such an argument is any good, it should be convincing, all by itself and completely removed from any larger context, to even the most hostile critic.  Naturally, it will never be that, because it will not properly be understood unless the larger conceptual context is understood.  But the lazy skeptic will not bother himself with that larger context.  He will simply take the brief, ten-step (or whatever) semi-formalized argument and aim at it any old objections that come to mind, thinking he has thereby refuted it when in fact he will (given his ignorance of some of the key background concepts) not even properly understand what it is saying.  (That is why a reader of a book like my Aquinas has to slog his way through over 50 pages of general metaphysics before he gets to the Five Ways.  There are no shortcuts, and I do not want to abet the lazy or dishonest skeptic in pretending otherwise.) 

Now, I submit that when we take account of these three factors underlying the common dismissive attitude toward the very idea of demonstrating God’s existence – the widespread misconceptions about what the traditional arguments for God’s existence actually say; the arbitrary double standard to which these arguments are held; and the common misunderstanding of what a “demonstration” must involve – we can see that that attitude is simply not justified.   Meanwhile, the approaches to demonstrating God’s existence represented by arguments like the Five Ways in fact are -- when fleshed out and when correctly understood -- convincing, as I have argued in several places (e.g. in Aquinas and in the ACPQ article). 

The Church’s insistence that the existence of God is demonstrable is not, in any event, an attempt to settle a philosophical issue by sheer diktat.  It is rather a carefully considered judgment about what must be the case if Christianity is to be rationally justifiable.  What the Church is doing is distancing herself from fideism by affirming the power of unaided reason and affirming the duty of Christians to provide a rational justification of what Aquinas called the “preambles” of the Catholic religion.  (I’ve discussed the crucial role that proofs of God’s existence and other philosophical arguments play in Christian apologetics here and here.)  It is not an expression of blind faith but precisely a condemnation of blind faith. 

So, something Catholics and New Atheists can agree on.  Isn’t that nice? 

258 comments:

  1. Glenn, you gots to be real, real careful when gripping those, er, apples, so they don't fall. After all, Eve gripped an apple, and after that there was The Fall. And when I go apple picking in the Fall, I grab a lot of apples that don't fall because I don't pull them off the tree yet - they aren't ripe. So Rick's whole statement is underdetermined as to whether the apple is ripe, with 100% confidence, or maybe it is one of those apples that is lacking in confidence and needs one of those Dale Carnegie classes.

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  2. There ya go.

    And then there are those dissedent apples which dig in their pips, refusing to fall when released on an incline, defiantly rolling instead.

    (And, dear Lord, please don't let get me started on what happens when an apple held under water is released.)

    - - - - -

    Mr. Green asked a perfectly good question not long ago, as to whether a certain sort of something is comic or tragic.

    It's funny, so I laugh. But it's really tragic, so why am I laughing?

    Well, I laugh at the humorous aspect of that certain sort of something, so as to not cry over its tragic nature.

    Something like that, anyway.

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  3. Irish Thomist writes:

    Sounds erroneous. Any academic and profession can apply to use the Vatican archives for research (I presume some documents from Pius' time would be there?). People just don't have a clue what they are talking about in their about in their atheistic apologetic's. People don't know that the 'Secret Archives' aren't actually secret with the exception of one section (that is about confessions etc. in relation to things that used to require the Popes permission).

    Do you know, until Pius XII was mentioned in he OP, I had no real idea what the allegations were, regarding his failure to issue any denunciations of Hitler, Mussolini and the policies of the Nazis during World War II. I can see that Pius XII may have felt he had little room for manoeuvre till after the Germans were on the run in Italy (Rome came under US control in June, 1944).

    What I find much more shocking is the involvement of Cardinal Pacelli and his close associate Ludwig Kaas in the Enabling Act and the quid pro quo of the ReichKonkordat. It is hard to interpret the actions of Pacelli and Kaas as innocent or ignorant of the consequences of allowing the Enabling Act to pass. 94 courageous Social Democrat members voted against that act.

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  4. Irish Thomist said...

    [quotes AF]
    Taking the Catholic God, for example; there is absolutely nothing anyone can point me to that indicates the existence of such a God other than "revelation".

    @Alan Fox
    1) Can you clarify your terms please.
    2)'Revelation' ruled out a priori because revelation is false is a circular argument.
    3)There is evidence apart from revelation.
    And so on...


    By "revelation" I mean what some person said or wrote.

    I am sceptical of a priori as a meaningful concept.

    What evidence?

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  5. @Rick Hawk:

    "No, phenomena are just ideas in your mind which is practically the definition of something which is not real."

    Ideas and minds aren't real? (I wonder how "confident" you are of that.)

    "Yes, it means exactly that. We can't rule out miracles, nor the existence of God. There are countless things we can't rule out. Skeptics hate to make claims so you should expect to have a hard time getting one to rule anything out."

    So much for your 100% confidence, then.

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  6. @Glenn:

    It might be simplest just to redefine fall to mean "whatever an apple does when someone lets go of it."

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  7. And then there are those dissedent apples which dig in their pips

    Glenn, my apples were DIFFIDENT, not dissident.

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  8. Scott,

    It might be simplest just to redefine fall to mean "whatever an apple does when someone lets go of it."

    You're closer to the truth than you may realize. Most everyone who knows of the current host of the Tonight Show knows of him by his stage name. But did you know that his real name, whilst growing up in NYC, aka The Big Apple, had been Jimmy Whateveranappledoeswhensomeoneletsgoofiton? I'll bet you didn't.

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  9. Tony,

    >> And then there are those dissedent apples which dig in their pips

    > Glenn, my apples were DIFFIDENT, not dissident.

    I stand corrected. But now wish to know: may it be (safely) assumed that your apples are not Diva Apples?

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  10. So much for your 100% confidence, then.

    I think he's defining 100% in a "sciency" way, where you can be 100% confident of something while still leaving open some finite percentage chance that you're wrong.

    You know, because science.

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  11. JesseM: Philosophers could have different understandings of what "change" might mean, based on different philosophies of time.

    Well, the idea is that Aristotle’s analysis of change in terms of potency and act is pretty general, so any alternative view would have to be more or less equivalent (in the relevant ways), and so the same conclusions would follow — just as something cannot be true when proven using Cartesian co-ordinates but false when using polar co-ordinates. And if the alternative theory is not compatible in that way, then it would be missing something real about change and just be wrong (e.g. a theory that explained away potency by making time just a kind a space and nothing else would not actually be explaining the changiness of change in the first place).

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  12. Irish Thomist: @Alan Fox 1) Can you clarify your terms please.

    Well, no; not if we can go by the science (repeated empirical observations that are falsifiable but never yet falsified).

    Sounds erroneous. Any academic and profession can apply to use the Vatican archives for research

    Tsk-tsk. You must remember, Scepticism™ is for logical arguments that you can’t refute; Da Vinci Code fan-fiction, however, is to be taken as gospel.

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  13. Glenn: I believe it was the philosopher Marx who once said, tragedy is when I trip on a banana peel; comedy is when Mel Brooks falls down a sewer and breaks his neck. Which just goes to show that it’s a false dichotomy because we’re talking about apples, not bananas. If Brooks had been an apple, we can be 100% confident that either he would have fallen, or he would not have fallen, or something else. For a suitably small p-value, 19 times out of 20. Of course, had Brooks been an apple, he would have kept the doctor away, which wouldn’t have done his broken neck any good.

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  14. @Chad Handley:

    "I think he's defining 100% in a 'sciency' way, where you can be 100% confident of something while still leaving open some finite percentage chance that you're wrong."

    Could be. Alternatively, maybe his confidence knob goes to eleven.

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  15. The thought of Mr. Green and apples has put a song in my head.

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  16. @Mr. Green and JesseM:

    Mr. Green writes: "[I]f the alternative theory is not compatible in that way, then it would be missing something real about change and just be wrong[.]"

    I think that about nails it. I've argued before that if temporal relations are real, then some form of eternalism must be correct; at the very least, events don't just slip into sheer nonexistence when they "go into the past." (Basically that's because, if that were the case, temporal relations would never have two events to relate!) But that's a far cry from four-dimensionalism and treating time as though it were "just a kind of space."

    Indeed, if temporal relations are real, then spatial relations just aren't "timey" enough to capture them. In my view four-dimensionalism doesn't merely involve a different definition, understanding, or analysis of change; it involves a reduction of it to changelessness.

    That approach would, I think, block the First Way, but only at the cost of throwing out "change" altogether.

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  17. Alan Fox,

    You have to remember not to read too much hindsight into history. Hitler and the Nazis were always nasty and vulgar, but those in 1933, including the conservative elements who helped them into power, did not know how they would turn out. The context, must also be remembered, and that was a Germany in chaos where many thought the alternative to the Nazis was the communists (by this time backed the social democrats, which makes your comments on them somewhat ironic). The conservatives thought they could control Hitler, but they were miscalculated.

    One can question whether the communists would have taken over if the Nazis hadn't, but it is open to question whether the communists, in the end, would have been much better for Germany and the world. This would have meant two great European powers would have fallen to communism. It would have likely tipped the balance in favour of the communists in Spain, and France, and China. The spread of Bolshevism from the South China Sea to the Azores is not a much more appealing prospect to the Nazis. When we take this all together, we can cut some of those who aided or turned a blind eye to the Nazis, inside Germany and without, like Hindenburg, a bit of slack.

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  18. @Scott,

    'Indeed, if temporal relations are real, then spatial relations just aren't "timey" enough to capture them. In my view four-dimensionalism doesn't merely involve a different definition, understanding, or analysis of change; it involves a reduction of it to changelessness.

    That approach would, I think, block the First Way, but only at the cost of throwing out "change" altogether.'

    I remember Ed arguing somewhere that it wouldn't because we could still ask what actualizes this possibility as opposed to that one. This is true but I think it might involve a subtle shift from the POC to the PSR (not that this is a problem mind; it just may involve a different type of argument).

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  19. The other could be based on the alternative "eternalist" view that sees all times as equally real, part of a fixed four-dimensional spacetime

    On this: mental change obviously occurs – we work through steps in an argument (e.g. for four-dimensionalism), come to a conclusion, &c.

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  20. @Daniel:

    "I remember Ed arguing somewhere that it wouldn't because we could still ask what actualizes this possibility as opposed to that one."

    Yeah, but I'm not convinced that the argument that essences (other than God's) require actualization would go through either.

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  21. @Daniel [cont'd]:

    "This is true but I think it might involve a subtle shift from the POC to the PSR[.]"

    …or a not-so-subtle one. Yes, I think so too. But that would take us outside the First Way, wouldn't it? The relevant part of that specific argument (which is the one JesseM was addressing) is that the essences of existing things require actualization by already-actual external causes, not just that they must have sufficient explanations.

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  22. @Thomas Henry Larsen:

    "On this: mental change obviously occurs – we work through steps in an argument (e.g. for four-dimensionalism), come to a conclusion, &c."

    Sure, but JesseM's hypothetical eternalist wouldn't deny this. All s/he would deny is that there's anything more to this "change" than my thinking X at time t₁, Y at time t₂, and so forth.

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  23. @ Scott

    Hmm… It seems to me that we might still be able to use at least something like the first way if we do a little bit of abstraction.

    Start with the principal that what is not already actual must be actualized by already-actual external causes. Now if we understand these “already’s” to refer to not only temporal procession but also logical procession, then we can conclude that anything that does not have its existence of itself must be actualized by some actual external causes. Run this regress through, and we come to some being that admits of no actualization of its existence, but has existence only of itself.

    So all we would need to do at this point to make the first way run through is to show how a “block-universe” admits of some sort of logical procession of existence, and this could also be done by showing that it just can’t be the sort of being that has its existence of itself, since whatever does not have its existence of itself admits of at least some logical procession of existence.

    Kind of a messy and round-about way to go about it, but it seems to work. Obviously Aquinas would probably just refer you to the second half of his third way, since that addresses the issue in a very straightforward manner.

    Also, as a general point, I think the goal of Aquinas’s first way was to take advantage of what is most obvious to our senses, that motion really exists, and take this to its logical conclusion. For people of the more philosophical and “rigorous” sort, I think he would have preferred to use one of his other arguments, since they are logically more evident, but less evident to us.

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  24. @Timotheos:

    I absolutely agree that such an argument will work and that your approach is the right one; my only (partial and tentative) disagreement about is whether it's best regarded as falling under the First Way. That doesn't strike me as a very interesting dispute, so I'll leave it at that. ;-)

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  25. By the way, has anyone here read David Braine's The Reality of Time and the Existence of God? I'd like to, but it's a bit pricey for my budget. At any rate it seems on point here—at least as regards my own view that though we can't dismiss time and change as simply unreal, nevertheless some variant of eternalism must be true (as must be the case if all times are co-present to God).

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  26. Scott: But that would take us outside the First Way, wouldn't it?

    That’s how it strikes me.

    Which perhaps explains the ringing in my ears… oh well, it can provide accompaniment to that song Scott has caused to get stuck in my head:

            And if that’s not potency
            Then far as I can see —

    God couldn’t make Mr. Green, apples,
    or the Indianapolis speedway
          if’n there’s no time…
      But there’s no such dei-ty as Zeus,
      It’s dizzying and quite abstruse,
            and yet sublime!

    If God couldn’t bake diffident apples
    Into a pie, then nor could I
          exist, you’ll find.
      I know my self has feelings, though;
      I think about the
    cogito
            that proves my mind….

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  27. @Scott, have you read Brian Leftow's Time and Eternity? It focuses more specifically on issues of Divine Timelessness but in one of the later chapters he develops the Boethian concept of Eternity as a time which transcends and encompasses all Time partly in regards to similar concerns(chapter three has a lot to say about Four Dimensionalism and other such theories). I am surprised we don't hear Leftow referred to more often here.

    I have the aforementioned Braine though have as yet not given it a proper reading (though I recall it contains convoluted attacks on Scotus and Anselm).

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  28. @Daniel:

    Thanks for the recommendation. I have a couple of Leftow's books (including that one) in my Amazon cart but I haven't bought any yet. I'm bumping that one up in priority.

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  29. (With apologies to Edward Lear.)


    How pleasant to know Mr. Green,
      Who has written such pages of verse!
    None think him ill-tempered or mean,
      Though a few find his arguments terse.

    His songs are completely parodious;
      His key is remarkably low;
    His face may be handsome or odious;
      We haven't a picture to know.

    He has ears, and two eyes, and ten digits,
      In essence, at least, we suppose,
    But his height could be giant's or midget's
      For all anybody here knows.

    But capture him photos could never,
      For the Intellect cannot be seen.
    It suffices to know he is clever.
      How pleasant to know Mr. Green!

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  30. I would be very interested in reading more Leftow, particularly some of the essays. I find him especially interesting as he certainly writes from a Neo-Scholastic, if not purely Thomist stance, but devotes some attention to analysing and defending PSR Cosmological Arguments as well as modal and ontological proofs. The exclusivity a lot of Thomists show in Natural Theology was beginning to concern me.

    He also has books on both Anselm and Thomas to be released at some point but when said ‘some point’ will be is anyone’s guess.

    The review of God and Necessity which featured in a link to Philosophy in Review someone posted a while back helped me solve that worry I was going on about regarding whether grounding Necessary Truths, for instance Blue and Yellow make Green, in God a la the Actualist stance of Thomism and others would mean that God could alter them if he were to so will. On the 'hard deity' theory of modality endorsed by Augustine, Thomas and Leibniz they remain unalterable since their being necessarily grounded in the Divine Essence means that they reflect the necessity of said essence and thus are unalterable even to the Divine Will.

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  31. His face may be handsome or odious; We haven't a picture to know.

    I've read he looks like GK Chesterton.

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  32. @Step2:

    Ha, nice!

    But wait, didn't Chesterton create Father Brown?

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  33. @Mr. Green:
    Well, the idea is that Aristotle’s analysis of change in terms of potency and act is pretty general, so any alternative view would have to be more or less equivalent (in the relevant ways), and so the same conclusions would follow — just as something cannot be true when proven using Cartesian co-ordinates but false when using polar co-ordinates.

    An eternalist view inspired by modern physics might take all talk of causation to ultimately boil down to the fact that earlier states are related to later states according to general mathematical rules (dynamical laws)--I think this is something like philosopher of science Tim Maudlin's view, for example. Aspects of potentiality could still be defined in such a view, but they would basically be reduced to logical/mathematical implication. For example, knowledge of an earlier state S1 plus the dynamical laws of physics may imply the universe will evolve into some later state S2--if S1 included an arrangement of particles we would describe as an "acorn" and S2 involved an arrangement we would describe as an "oak tree", then we could say the acorn-containing state S1 included the "potential" for the later oak-tree-containing state S2. We could even talk about unrealized potentials, by using counterfactuals. For example, it might be that the acorn-containing state S1 will not in fact evolve into an oak-tree-containing state (because some animal eats the acorn, say), but we can show that if we had a different starting state S1' containing exactly the same acorn-arrangement of particles, but with some of the external conditions altered (no nearby acorn-eating animal), then that state S1' would evolve into a state S2' including an arrangement of particles corresponding to an oak tree. This notion of analyzing potentials in terms of the evolution of a group of possible initial conditions which are identical in some key respects but different in others is commonly used in statistical mechanics, for example.

    The question is, does the first cause argument require some notion of "potency" that goes beyond "what later states are mathematically implied by a given prior state, or a group of multiple possible prior states which are alike in some way, given a specific set of mathematical laws governing the evolution of states"? If so can this "extra" aspect of potency be defined precisely, and does it rely on some form of presentism or growing block universe theory in which future events don't exist, or can it be described in a way that would be compatible with eternalism?

    And if the alternative theory is not compatible in that way, then it would be missing something real about change and just be wrong (e.g. a theory that explained away potency by making time just a kind a space and nothing else would not actually be explaining the changiness of change in the first place).

    Does "changiness of change" imply some sort of intuition that can't entirely be put into words/analytical concepts, like philosopher's "qualia"? (an example would be "the redness of red", which these philosophers argue a colorblind person would fail to understand even if they understood all the quantitative features of light and the brain's processing of visual information) Or can what's missing be put into the form of a more precise philosophical argument that doesn't depend on subjective sensations and intuitions? (and also doesn't simply presuppose the A-T metaphysical framework is correct in every detail, of course)

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  34. Scott: How pleasant to know Mr. Green,
    Who has written such pages of verse!
    None think him ill-tempered or mean,


    …’tis the cunning facade I rehearse!

    Scott’s posts are always worth reading, but this one I found especially pleasing. For no particular reason.


    Step2: I've read he looks like GK Chesterton.

    Only my hairdresser knows for sure!

    Scott: But wait, didn't Chesterton create Father Brown?

    Well, naturally Father Green created me.

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  35. Actually, nice poem.

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  36. Jeremy Taylor said...(September 26, 2014 at 8:36 PM)

    Alan Fox,

    You have to remember not to read too much hindsight into history. Hitler and the Nazis were always nasty and vulgar, but those in 1933, including the conservative elements who helped them into power, did not know how they would turn out. The context, must also be remembered, and that was a Germany in chaos where many thought the alternative to the Nazis was the communists (by this time backed the social democrats, which makes your comments on them somewhat ironic). The conservatives thought they could control Hitler, but they were miscalculated.


    You should consider taking your own advice and not insert your own ideas of what various people and groups were thinking. Where no records such as diaries are available, it is speculation.

    I do agree that communists (those godless atheist heathens) were demonised by the "bourgeoisie" and a main strategy of the Nazis was to exploit this fear in getting to power. The ploy or exploitation of the burning down the Reichstag got rid of communist members of parliament (representing less than a fifth of the electorate), paving the way for the passing of the Enabling Act (fully supported by the Catholic centre Party) with the necessary two-thirds majority.

    One can question whether the communists would have taken over if the Nazis hadn't, but it is open to question whether the communists, in the end, would have been much better for Germany and the world. This would have meant two great European powers would have fallen to communism.

    One could argue that the Yalta carve-up conceded far too much to Stalin. Indeed, Poland and the many Polish allied fighters against the Nazis were utterly betrayed.

    It would have likely tipped the balance in favour of the communists in Spain, and France, and China.

    China? Didn't Mao establish a version of Communism there for a while? Spain had a democratically elected government (Republican, Socialist but not Communist) that was overthrown by Franco's coup. It is scandalous that the Republicans were denied assistance by Britain and France. The Soviets cynically offered help to the Republicans, hoping to profit by infiltrating the Republican leadership. I don't know where you get the idea that there was a serious possibility (I'll grant there was a serious ambition amongst the communist resistance groups) of a Communist take-over in France. Though the Communist party, independent and French, is still seen at local level.

    Anyway, Soviet Communism spectacularly collapsed at the end of the eighties

    The spread of Bolshevism from the South China Sea to the Azores is not a much more appealing prospect to the Nazis. When we take this all together, we can cut some of those who aided or turned a blind eye to the Nazis, inside Germany and without, like Hindenburg, a bit of slack.

    Good grief! Do you stand by what you wrote here?

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  37. >> Scott: How pleasant to know Mr. Green,
    Who has written such pages of verse!
    None think him ill-tempered or mean,

    > …’tis the cunning facade I rehearse!

    Whilst the underside of the surface (of the sea),
    And in a yellow submarine, he doth traverse

    (More than poetry from me
    Nothing could be worse)

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  38. The question is, does the first cause argument require some notion of "potency" that goes beyond "what later states are mathematically implied by a given prior state, or a group of multiple possible prior states which are alike in some way

    Another question is whether this account leaves any possibility of free will and free actions by humans. If not, Aristotelian potency / actualization cannot be reduced to this account.

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  39. Alan Fox,

    We know what the conservative forces were thinking, if that is who you are referring to. It is well documented was Hindenburg and his associates thought of the Nazis.

    The communists demonised themselves. The communists were the second strongest political force in Germany after the Nazis by 1933.

    The Republican government in Spain was dominated by socialists and communists. Democratically elected or not, Franco was a better prospect. Communism is the enemy of mankind. You have seem to have a strange sympathy for communism.

    And, yes, I stand by the notion the communists are just as bad as the Nazism. The communists killed much more people than the Nazis. Besides, their system had a longevity in it that the Nazis were unlikely to have achieved, given the basic instability in Nazism. Do you have an argument against this? Or are you just relying on the contemporary whitewashing of communism by the left?

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  40. JesseM,

    Does this eternalist view you are referring to satisfactorily account for our basic experience of change? Or this one of the those subjective intuitions you are referring to?

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  41. @Jeremy Taylor:

    Yes, I would say our experience of change is a subjective intuition, particularly insofar as it's difficult to analyze precisely what this experience consists of (to me it seems to have something to do with some kind of 'fuzziness' in the boundaries between short-term anticipation of the future, perception of the present, and awareness of the immediate past--think of watching a moving object and having some awareness of 'where I expect it to be in a fraction of a second' and 'where it was a fraction of a second ago' alongside 'where it is now', and how difficult it is to 'catch' any precise moment when one transitions into another). Eternalism could be compatible with a variety of accounts of subjective experience, from some form of eliminative materialism to a completely idealist picture of reality (Timothy Sprigge is an example of a recent idealist philosopher who was also an eternalist). It's certainly not obvious to me that this subjective experience implies any definite conclusions about whether future events "exist" or not, whether things literally "come into being" from a state of nonexistence, or whether there is an "objective" present moment.

    In any case, if this basic experience of change plays any essential role in why advocates of the first cause argument think its premises can't reasonably be doubted, I'd be very interested to see an elaboration of the nature of the connection.

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  42. JesseM,

    The problem for me is the idea that our subjective experience does not force us acknowledge some present moment, some succession of events, whether or not the past and future exist eternally or not (surely, classical theists would say they do). Do deny this would seem to so radically undermine our basic experience as to make illusionary.

    This is, indeed, just like qualia, but though I don't conclude that because qualia are subjective and hard to put into words that this is evidence of their vacuity or non-existence.

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  43. By the way, Dr. Feser has discussed Tim Maudlin and his views on this subject previously:

    http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/maudlin-on-philosophy-of-cosmology.html

    http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/maudlin-on-time-and-fundamentality-of.html

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  44. Jeremy Taylor wrote:

    The Republican government in Spain was dominated by socialists and communists. Democratically elected or not, Franco was a better prospect. Communism is the enemy of mankind. You have seem to have a strange sympathy for communism.

    Living amongst them, I have sympathy for dispossessed and disenfranchised Catalans. Even more sympathy for those who lost their lives under Franco's oppression. Totalitarian dictators of whatever political stripe are the enemy of mankind. Perhaps the only country that genuinely experimented with a kind of communism is Cuba.

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  45. This is, indeed, just like qualia, but though I don't conclude that because qualia are subjective and hard to put into words that this is evidence of their vacuity or non-existence.

    Regarding "qualia", why not take that extra step? We have no need of this particular human construct.

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  46. Why do people bother replying to this? Why? It's clear that Alan is never going to say anything interesting or thought-provoking unless it be by a total accident. Likewise for the Falsification fellow - there are many intelligent and insightful Naturalists under the sun but that doesn't change the fact that most of those who turn up here just peddle tip-bits of recooked Positivism*.

    I suggest we take up a Moral Foundationalist stance in which any person making moral statements has to first showcase the ontological grounding for such statements. If not their remarks should be considered as invalid under Mackie's Argument from Queerness and thus an arbitrary fiat on the part of the speaker. Atheists are keen on the arguments of Hume, Nietzsche and co against objective moral values right up until the moment in which they want to make thunderous moral pronouncements of their own.

    *To end on a 'Best of Alan' did not he recently make a statement to the effect that he was 'suspicious' of any A Priori? Here we go again...


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  47. @Jeremy Taylor:
    I wasn't suggesting that "because qualia are subjective and hard to put into words that this is evidence of their vacuity or non-existence", or that our experience of change should be treated as vacuous either. But if the experience of change plays a central role in why the first cause argument is taken to be convincing, this should be elaborated, don't you think? And if advocates of the first cause argument typically present it in a way that doesn't treat the subjective experience of change as critical to understanding it, that suggests that most presentations of the argument are deeply flawed, that these presentations have holes in them which need patching.

    But even taking the experience of change seriously, I don't understand how it is supposed to clearly rule out eternalism. Certainly I experience a "present moment" which I call "now", but I also always experience myself to be at a particular point in space which I call "here"--if the second does not imply a denial that there are other equally real people at locations that to me seem to be "not here" but for them are "here", why can't "now" be observer-dependent in the same way? Just because the 2014-me perceives 2014 to be "now", that doesn't need to imply that the 2013-me who perceives 2013 as "now" isn't equally real and equally conscious. An eternalist who is also an absolute idealist like Timothy Sprigge might argue that there is some kind of all-ecompassing Absolute Experience that is experiencing both the 2013-me and the 2014-me in some kind of eternal present moment, and that "my" experience is just some sort of partial or approximate aspect of the Absolute Experience.

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  48. JesseM,

    Dr Feser has written on the experience of change, I believe, especially the incoherence of the Parmenidean option of denying it.

    I believe that the classical theist does accept the the ongoing existence of the past. Dante gives an intimation of the classical account of time.

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  49. @Jeremy Taylor:
    Dr Feser has written on the experience of change, I believe, especially the incoherence of the Parmenidean option of denying it.

    Parmenides seemed to deny time altogether, while an eternalist accepts that different events do happen at different times, it's just that no particular time is objectively "the present" in some observer-independent sense. Different moments of consciousness can still refer to their own time as "now" of course, just as they can refer to their own position as "here", but an eternalist would understand both terms to be indexicals, whose meaning would depend on which observer-moment was speaking or thinking them.

    Does Dr. Feser specifically argue that this position is incoherent? And if so, does he make this case in the course of presenting the first cause argument, or in some other context? Again, my main point here is that if it's correct that the first cause argument doesn't really work if you assume this form of eternalism, then any presentation of the argument that doesn't give specific reasons as to why we should reject this form of eternalism must be incomplete and therefore unconvincing on its own (especially if the purpose is to try to convince modern philosophers, who tend to favor eternalism over presentism).

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  50. @JesseM:

    "Does Dr. Feser specifically argue that this position is incoherent? And if so, does he make this case in the course of presenting the first cause argument, or in some other context?"

    So far as I know, Ed never argues that the position you describe is incoherent. He does argue that a flat Parmenidean denial of change is incoherent, but that doesn't commit him to any particular account of change.

    He also, notably in Scholastic Metaphysics argues against four-dimensionalism as an account of substances and the varying of their properties over time, but that's not the same thing—especially since an eternalist need not be a four-dimensionalist. (Sprigge wasn't.)

    Nor, so far as I know, does he argue that any specific account of change is needed for the First Way. As I understand his argument, the heart of it is that we can't deny change altogether, and if we allow that change occurs, we're logically committed to the conclusion of the First Way no matter what account of such change we may wish to give. (For whatever it's worth, I think he's right.)

    It may be that any such account will have to include at least functional equivalents of act and potency; certainly Ed formulates what he takes (and here too I agree) to be the fundamental version of the Law of Causality in those terms. But I don't see that act and potency are compatible only with "presentism," and in fact I think a completely pure presentism would render them incoherent.

    I don't know where or whether Ed addresses that latter point explicitly, but at any rate his version of the First Way doesn't seem to me to be vulnerable to your proposed objection.

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  51. @Scott:

    But suppose we have an eternalist who understands "change" purely in terms of mathematical features of a 4D spacetime structure--say, the fact that the worldlines of particles passes through different spatial positions at different times, fundamentally no different from the fact that the curve y=x^2 passes through different y-coordinates at different values of x (this is not the same as what philosophers mean by "four dimensionalism", since someone holding the view above could still say the 'particle' is fully present at each point on its worldline, rather than taking the four-dimensionalist position that the particle is the entire worldline and that each point along it is merely a 'temporal part'). Would you say the first cause argument should still be convincing even with this understanding of change?

    To put it another way, if an advocate of the first cause argument is also a believer in some form of mathematical Platonism (which can include the view, common among theistic philosophers, that mathematical objects should be understood as timeless Ideas in the mind of God), is he forced to conclude that the fact of the function y=x^2 having different values of y at different values of x requires a "first cause" as well, even though in some sense all facts about y=x^2 are part of the "timeless" world of Platonic mathematical forms? If your answer to this is "no", i.e. you don't think the type of "change" we see in mathematical functions clearly requires a first cause, then I don't see why an eternalist who see physical change and causation in similar mathematical terms should say anything in the physical universe implies a first cause either.

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  52. @JesseM:

    "But suppose we have an eternalist who understands 'change' purely in terms of mathematical features of a 4D spacetime structure…"

    I answered that some time ago: yes, I think that would block the First Way, but only at the cost of throwing out any reasonable/plausible analysis of change.

    Also, be careful not to confuse the First Way and the Second Way. It's the latter that argues for a First Cause; the former argues for a Prime Mover. (I probably initiated the confusion by mentioning the Law of Causality.)

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  53. @Scott:
    I answered that some time ago: yes, I think that would block the First Way, but only at the cost of throwing out any reasonable/plausible analysis of change.

    Your earlier comment was that four-dimensionalism would block the First Way, but as I noted in my previous comment, the eternalist view I describe above need not necessarily imply the four-dimensionalist view that "objects" are to be equated with entire 4D worldlines rather than 3D slices of them. But I take it you think this type of eternalist view is incompatible with the First Way regardless of whether "objects" are understood as 3D or 4D? If so, do you think this type of eternalism would also block the Second Way? If both would be blocked, then hopefully you'd agree that a modern advocate of either argument who is trying to present it to a skeptical (and philosophically-informed) audience would include specific reasons for rejecting this form of eternalism, since I think it's a fairly mainstream position on time among modern philosophers.

    I don't know if you feel like elaborating on the "throwing out any reasonable/plausible analysis of change" comment here, but if you do (or if you can point to a source that you think makes a good case) I'd be interested to hear it. In particular I'd be curious whether the argument would revolve around our subjective experience of what change feels like, or if you think there are good reasons to reject this analysis of change that don't depend on appeals to difficult-to-describe subjective experiences and intuitions (as I said earlier, while I don't deny experiencing some sort of 'changiness of change', I don't really see that there's anything in my current experience that clearly goes against the eternalist view that there are other JesseM-experiences at other times that are equally real and equally conscious, and that my current experience simply lacks direct awareness of them).

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  54. JesseM, would your experience of the events of 3:00 pm now while remembering the events of 2:59, whereas formerly only being aware of the experience of the events of 2:59 and not being aware of the events of 3:00, count as a "change"? That is to say, if the version of eternalism you are referring to includes any sort of integrity between the you that formerly experienced 2:59 as "now" and the you that is now experiencing 3:00 is the very same you, isn't it NECESSARY to credit the difference as a change in you?

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  55. @Scott,

    This may be too late but if you want something on the nature of time, relation and the status of past existents, and are up for some dense Scholastic reading then this would seem perfect:

    Duns Scotus on Time and Existence

    I know it's Scotus rather than Thomas but his view is going to still be broadly similar one would assume. Thinking of it Richard Cross has a book, The Physics of Duns Scotus, where he discusses the variant of the A Theory of Time Scotus propounded.

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  56. Thanks, Daniel—I like Scotus and Cross and those both look interesting (though a bit pricey, especially the Cross!).

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  57. A gad-fly of a post. Well done.

    I really became involved at:

    "The idea that such an argument (or any metaphysical argument) could be entirely formalized is a rationalist fantasy."

    which raised the question of formalization. If an argument is not entirely formalized, is it formalized at all, or is it formal in part?
    Is there an argument whose very nature defies formalization? Are there arguments which require partial formalization?

    A lot there.

    Then I veered back to:

    :...Related to this is a tendency to approach the subject as if a successful argument for God’s existence should be the sort of thing that can be stated fairly briefly..."

    and I found this very interesting.
    Even if we limit our areas of research to the written word of philosophy, there is no guarantee of a well defined end or conclusion to our argument at all, much less within the compass of a single human life... although Prof. Anthony Flew seemed to provide a test of this.

    If we allow our "arguments" to be encoded into something other than written language, it becomes even more suggestive, for rational beings have other arts that although not commonly thought of as "ratiocination" are yet the work of rational beings.

    You have given me quite a bit to think on.

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  58. The concept of god as being real cannot be proven by any tangible means. Also, Christianity got it's start from Pagan tradition that were celebrated and stories told many years before the Christian religion came to be. As a matter of fact, all the stories in the Bible were told long before Christianity got it's start, multiple times with multiple different names for their "savior", which the Jesus character got it's start from. All this from Paganism. For anyone, no matter how schooled they are or what position they hold in life, to state that God can be demonstrated and thus proven is a fallacy of giant proportions. Morals and ethics are not of a religious nature and to imply as such is to leave yourself open to ridicule.

    Atheist Chris "Ali Baba" Thiefe writes "The Torah is VERY errant and contradictory to that of scientific facts. The first book of Genesis alone should be enough to invalidate Judaism to any INTELLIGENT person. Sadly, not only is Judaism still one of the world’s leading religions, but it has spawned the most insane theism (Christianity)." From here he goes on to explain, using the Bible itself and the Torah as the main sources, along with some scientific source materials, how God is an impossibility in reality.

    On his site http://www.evilbible.com/ he points out the fallacies of making such claims. Also that the rise in atheism is happening at a dramatic rate in the USA.

    [In the US, the number of non-religious people has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just eight percent of the total in 1990 to over fourteen percent in 2001.

    This was the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms among all religious groups.

    Source: 2001 American Religious Identification Survey.]

    My question for you is this: Why should people believe you over him? I'm not promoting atheism, or any other religious or non religious sect, I am simply looking for answers. I was raised and confirmed Lutheran, my Mom's side of the family is Catholic and a few Jehovah's Witnesses, my Dad's side is Lutheran, Catholic and Methodist. I am doubting very much that any of it is real. What I do know is real is the fact that death happens and life continues when people do pass away. Evolution is real and so is nature. Everything else is up for debate.

    I have studied many different religions and have found many discrepancies and contradictions in all of the Holy Books I have read. Is there a way I can actually read the original writings? Or am I doomed to try to interpret the fallacies of misinterpretations, opinions and biasedness of the men who wrote these Holy Books?

    How can one ascertain the truth and the knowledge of such with so many different and opinionated philosophies on this subject? How does science and religion tie together and can it be proven?

    I would appreciate any help on these matters as I have felt like I've been whipped around in a whirlwind as of late, bouncing from one belief to the next, to the next, etc... Yes, there have been some very dramatic events unfold in my life that has set me on this path.

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