Tuesday, August 28, 2012

Think, McFly, think!

As Aristotelians and Thomists use the term, intellect is that faculty by which we grasp abstract concepts (like the concepts man and mortal), put them together into judgments (like the judgment that all men are mortal), and reason logically from one judgment to another (as when we reason from all men are mortal and Socrates is a man to the conclusion that Socrates is mortal).  It is to be distinguished from imagination, the faculty by which we form mental images (such as a visual mental image of what your mother looks like, an auditory mental image of what your favorite song sounds like, a gustatory mental image of what pizza tastes like, and so forth); and from sensation, the faculty by which we perceive the goings on in the external material world and the internal world of the body (such as a visual experience of the computer in front of you, the auditory experience of the cars passing by on the street outside your window, the awareness you have of the position of your legs, etc.).

That intellectual activity -- thought in the strictest sense of the term -- is irreducible to sensation and imagination is a thesis that unites Platonists, Aristotelians, and rationalists of either the ancient Parmenidean sort or the modern Cartesian sort.  The thesis is either explicitly or implicitly denied by modern empiricists and by ancients like Democritus; as I noted in an earlier post, the various bizarre metaphysical conclusions defended by writers like Berkeley and Hume largely rest on the conflation of intellect and imagination.  But the irreducibility of intellect to imagination is for all that undeniable, for several reasons. 

Thinking versus imagining

First, the concepts that are the constituents of intellectual activity are universal while mental images and sensations are always essentially particular.  Any mental image I can form of a man is always going to be of a man of a particular sort -- tall, short, fat, thin, blonde, redheaded, bald, or what have you.  It will fit at most many men, but not all.  But my concept man applies to every single man without exception.  Or to use my stock example, any mental image I can form of a triangle will be an image of an isosceles , scalene, or equilateral triangle, of a black, blue, or green triangle, etc.  But the abstract concept triangularity applies to all triangles without exception.  And so forth.

Second, mental images are always to some extent vague or indeterminate, while concepts are at least often precise and determinate.  To use Descartes’ famous example, a mental image of a chiliagon (a 1,000-sided figure) cannot be clearly distinguished from a mental image of a 1,002-sided figure, or even from a mental image of a circle.  But the concept of a chiliagon is clearly distinct from the concept of a 1,002-sided figure or the concept of a circle.  I cannot clearly differentiate a mental image of a crowd of one million people from a mental image of a crowd of 900,000 people.  But the intellect easily understands the difference between the concept of a crowd of one million people and the concept of a crowd of 900,000 people.  And so on.

Third, we have many concepts that are so abstract that they do not have even the loose sort of connection with mental imagery that concepts like man, triangle, and crowd have.  You cannot visualize triangularity or humanness per se, but you can at least visualize a particular triangle or a particular human being.  But we also have concepts -- such as the concepts law, square root, logical consistency, collapse of the wave function, and innumerably many others -- that can strictly be associated with no mental image at all.  You might form a visual or auditory image of the English word “law” when you think about law, but the concept law obviously has no essential connection whatsoever with that word, since ancient Greeks, Chinese, and Indians had the concept without using that specific word to name it.  You might form a mental image of a certain logician when you contemplate what it is for a theory to be logically consistent, or a mental image of someone observing something when you contemplate the collapse of the wave function, but there is no essential connection whatsoever between (say) the way Alonzo Church looked and the concept logical consistency or (say) what someone looks like when he’s observing a dead cat and the concept wave function collapse.  

The impossibility of materialism 

Now, the reason why intellectual activity cannot in principle be reduced to sensation or imagination is, as it happens, related to the reason why intellectual activity cannot in principle be reduced to, or entirely supervenient upon, or in any other way explicable in terms of material processes of any sort.  For like mental images, the symbols postulated by cognitive scientists (“sentences in the head,” “maps,” or what have you), and any other possible purported material embodiments of thought, (a) necessarily lack the universality that concepts have, (b) necessarily lack the determinacy that concepts have, and (c) generally have exactly the loose and non-essential connection to the concepts they purportedly embody that the word “law” has to the concept law or a mental image of Alonzo Church has to the concept logical consistency.

There is no way the materialist is ever going to square this circle.  To “explain” intellectual activity entirely in terms of material processes is inevitably at least implicitly to deny the existence of the former, or of some essential aspect of the former.   For instance, if you identify thought with material processes, you are necessarily committed to denying, implicitly or explicitly, that our thoughts ever really have any determinate content.  A number of materialists have seen this -- Quine, Dennett, and Bernard Williams are three examples -- and have decided to bite the bullet and accept that the content of all thought and language is inherently indeterminate.  (This is, for instance, the upshot of Quine’s famous “indeterminacy of translation” and “inscrutability of reference” theses and of Dennett’s “two-bitser” example.)

But such claims are indefensible, for reasons James Ross has trenchantly spelled out.  First, if you deny the determinacy of thought, there is no way you will be able to make sense of the vast body of knowledge embodied in mathematics and logic, all of which presupposes that we have determinate concepts.  And there will in that case be no way you will be able to make sense of empirical science, which presupposes mathematics and logic, and in the name of which these materialists endorse their indeterminacy theses.  Second, if you deny the determinacy of thought, then you are committed to denying that we ever determinately think in accordance with valid forms of inference -- modus ponens, modus tollens, etc. -- or that we ever really add, subtract, multiply, etc.  You have to hold that we only seem to do so.  But that entails that we never in fact reason logically or in mathematically sound ways.  This not only (once again) makes science unintelligible, but it also undermines absolutely every argument anyone has ever given, including every argument for materialism.  Third, even to deny that our thoughts ever have a determinate content -- for example, to deny that we ever determinately employ addition as opposed to Saul Kripke’s notion of “quaddition” -- you first have to grasp what addition is and then go on to deny that we ever do it.  But that means that you must have a thought with a certain determinate content even to deny that you ever have thoughts with that specific content.

So, anyone who thinks that thought can even in principle be entirely material hasn’t thought carefully enough about the nature of thought.  The materialist refutes materialism every time he so much as tries to argue for it.  Or so I would argue, and have argued at length elsewhere (e.g. in chapter 7 of Philosophy of Mind, chapter 4 of Aquinas, and at greatest length in my forthcoming American Catholic Philosophical Quarterly article “Kripke, Ross, and the Immaterial Aspects of Thought”).  But I’m not going to say anything more about that subject here, because it’s not relevant to the point I do want to make in this post.  So, if you want to insist that intellectual activity is material, then fine, that’s another subject.  The point for present purposes is that thinking in the strict sense -- grasping abstract concepts, formulating propositions, reasoning from one proposition to another -- is different from forming mental images or the like (even if it is somehow material in some other way).

Science is an essentially intellectual activity

Now everyone knows that this is true where physics and mathematics are concerned.  Of course, we do find it useful to form mental images when we try to grasp the abstractions of these disciplines, at least initially.  We draw geometrical figures on paper, think of points as little dots and of lines as the sort of thing you might draw with a ruler, imagine particles as little round objects moving about and of the structure of spacetime as like a rubber sheet we might twist around in different shapes.  But none of this is strictly correct, and the deeper we understand the concepts involved, the more we see that these visual images are just crude approximations.  That’s why physicists prefer to put things in mathematical terms.  They are not trying to show off or to be difficult for the sake of difficulty.  It is rather that it is precisely those aspects of nature which can be modeled mathematically that they are interested in as physicists.  Hence to put their ideas in non-mathematical terms simply fails to get at the essence of what it is they are trying to describe.  (The mistake some of them make is in assuming that a mathematical description exhausts nature, as opposed to capturing merely an aspect of nature.  But that’s a different subject, which I have addressed here, here, and here.)

This was part of the point of Descartes’ consideration of the possibility that he might be dreaming when he thinks he’s awake, or that the world of his senses might be a hallucination put into his consciousness by an evil spirit.  He was not interesting in providing fodder for college dorm room bull sessions or science-fiction screenwriters.  Nor was he merely interested in raising and responding to the problem of epistemological skepticism.  What he was trying to do was reinforce the idea that physics as he wanted to (re)define it -- and he was one of the fathers of modern science, as well as being the father of modern philosophy -- is something that can be understood only via the intellect, and not via the senses or the imagination.  Even if physical theory must be tested via empirical observation, its content is something that is expressible only in highly abstract terms that we must grasp with the intellect rather in terms of what we can imagine or perceive.  As with the concepts law and logical consistency (to cite some examples given above), any mental imagery we associate with the concepts we learn from a physics textbook are bound to be misleading and will have little or no essential connection to the realities to which the concepts correspond.  That is precisely why modern physics is so hard -- it requires a degree of abstraction of which few are capable.

Philosophy and theology are also essentially intellectual activities

Now the key concepts of the great systems of metaphysics -- whether Platonic, Aristotelian, Thomistic or other Scholastic systems, or modern rationalist systems like those of Descartes and Leibniz -- are also of the sort that can be grasped only via a high degree of intellectual abstraction, with little or nothing in the way of assistance by mental imagery.  Indeed these concepts are if anything of an even higher degree of abstraction than those dealt with by the physicist.  For many of them concern not just material being, nor even the most abstract aspects of material being, but being as such.  When the metaphysician inquires into the nature of existence, or essence, or causation, he wants to know not merely what it is for this or that material thing to exist or have a nature or have a cause, nor even merely what it would be for some particular immaterial thing to exist or to have a nature or a cause.  He also wants to know what existence as such is, what causation as such is, and so forth.  His enterprise requires taking the mind as far from mental imagery -- as far from what we can visualize, for example -- as it can possibly go.  Thus, while metaphysics does not involve complex calculations or the like, it is in another respect even more difficult than physics insofar as it requires an even greater sustained effort of abstraction.  

Hence, when it is said by the Scholastic philosopher or theologian that God is pure actuality, subsistent being itself, and absolutely simple, or that the human soul is the substantial form of a living human being, you are going to misunderstand these concepts completely if you think of them as literally having anything to do with what you can visualize in your mind’s eye.  For example, if you think of an explosion (say) when you think of God qua Actus purus actualizing the world, or of a tiny marble-like object when you think of absolute simplicity, or the dotted-line outline of a body when you think of substantial form, you will be misunderstanding these concepts as badly as -- indeed, far worse than -- you would be misunderstanding molecules if you thought of them as literally being little balls held together by sticks, or of spacetime as if it were literally a kind if sheet with indentations in it.  Similarly, if you think of Descartes’ notion of res cogitans on the model of “ectoplasm,” or goo of the sort you’d see in Ghostbusters only invisible and intangible, or as “bits of non-clockwork” (as Gilbert Ryle described it), then you will be taking it to be nearly the opposite of what Descartes actually had in mind.  For these are all quasi-material kinds of thing insofar as they imply extension and/or composition.  And Descartes’ whole point was that a res cogitans is neither extended nor composed of parts.  It is precisely the sort of thing you cannot visualize, nor model on the workings of any kind of material system whatsoever, even the most ethereal.

Double standard

And this is where so many New Atheist types come to grief.  (As I find I keep having to reassure the hypersensitive reader, no, I don’t mean all atheists.  I mean the kind of atheist who seriously thinks a Richard Dawkins, Jerry Coyne, or Laurence Krauss deserves to be mentioned in the same breath with J. L. Mackie, J. Howard Sobel, or Quentin Smith.)  Those among them who actually know something about science (and not merely how to shout “Science!”) are well aware that you are not going to understand physics properly if you take too seriously the mental images we tend to form when we hear terms like “spacetime,” “particle,” “energy,” and the like.  They are well aware that physics requires us to abstract from ordinary experience, to move away from what we can visualize or otherwise imagine.  The man on the street may think that whatever is real must be something you could in principle see, hear, touch, smell, or taste, but the more scientifically savvy sort of New Atheist knows that this is a vulgar prejudice, and that it is with the intellect rather than the senses that we truly understand the world.

And yet, when dealing with metaphysical or theological concepts New Atheist types suddenly become complete Philistines, feigning an inability to grasp anything but the most crude and literal physical descriptions.  Hence if you claim that the human mind is immaterial, they suppose that you simply must be committed to the existence of a sort of magical goop that floats above the brain; and if you say that the universe has a cause they will insist that you must believe in a kind of super-Edison who draws up blueprints, gets out his tools, and sets to work.  And when you object to these preposterous straw men, they will pretend that they cannot understand your language in any other way, that it is mere empty verbiage unless read in such a crassly mundane fashion.  Of course, if they held physics to the same narrow, literalistic standard, they would have to dismiss wormholes, quantum foam, black holes, gravity wells, electric fields, centers of gravity, and on and on.  (I’ve discussed this double standard before, here and here.)

It is no good to object that the predictive and technological successes of physics justify this double standard, for two reasons.  First, the predictive and technological successes of physics are relevant only to the epistemic credentials of physics, but not to its intelligibility.  In other words, that such-and-such a theory in physics has been confirmed experimentally and/or had various practical applications is relevant to showing that it is correct, but it is not necessarily relevant to interpreting the content of the theory.  Physicists knew well enough what Einstein was claiming before tests like the 1919 and 1922 eclipse experiments provided evidence that he was right.  Similarly, though string theory has proved notoriously difficult to test, we know well enough what the theory means; the trouble is just finding out whether it’s true.  (No one would make the asinine claim that string theory simply must be committed to the existence of literal microscopic shoelaces unless and until some experimental test of the theory is devised.)  

So, even if it were correct to say that metaphysical and theological claims cannot be rationally justified, it simply wouldn’t follow that such claims must be given the crude readings New Atheists often foist upon them, on pain of being empty verbiage.  But it is, in any case, not correct to say that they cannot be rationally justified, which brings us to the second problem.  That the methods of empirical science are rational does not entail that they are the only methods that are rational.  In particular, and as I have pointed out many times, it is simply a blatant non sequitur to claim that science’s success in discovering those aspects of reality that are susceptible of strict prediction and control shows that those aspects exhaust reality.  This is like a drunk’s insisting that because it is only under the streetlamp that there is light to look for his keys, it follows that the keys cannot be elsewhere and/or that there cannot be methods by which they might be sought elsewhere.

As I have also pointed out many times, the premises from which the historically most important arguments for God’s existence proceed derive, not from natural science, but from metaphysics and the philosophy of nature.  They are, that is to say, premises that any possible natural science must take for granted, and are thus more secure than the claims of natural science, not less -- or so many natural theologians would claim.  Obviously such claims are controversial, but the point is that to insist that metaphysical and theological assertions must be justified via the methods of natural science if they are to be worthy of attention is not to refute the metaphysician or theologian, but merely to beg the question against the metaphysician or theologian.  Philosophical arguments are different from empirical scientific arguments, but they are no less rational than empirical scientific arguments.  

Thinking abstractly

Some readers might wonder how what I am saying here squares with what I said in a recent post about the danger of reifying abstractions.  But there is no inconsistency.  Naturally, I was not saying in the earlier post that abstraction per se is bad; indeed, I said the opposite.  What I was criticizing was treating as substances (in the Aristotelian sense of that term) things which of their nature cannot be substances.  Mathematical features of reality, for example, are aspects of substances and of relations between substances, rather than substances in their own right.  Hence it is an error to treat the mathematical description of nature that physics gives us as if it were a complete description.  Bodily organs like brains are also not substances but rather components of substances (namely of certain kinds of organisms) and intelligible only by reference to the complete organisms of which they form integral parts.  Hence it is a category mistake -- deriving from a tendency first to abstract the brain from the organism and then fallaciously to treat it as a substance in its own right -- to speak (as some neuroscientists and philosophers do) of the brain or its components as if they “see,” “interpret,” etc., or to conclude that since free choice, purpose, etc. are not to be found at the neurological level of description, it follows that they don’t exist at all.  These concepts apply in the first place only to the organism as a whole, and not to its parts.

The arguments of natural theology that I am defending do not commit errors like this.  They abstract from experience, but they do not fallaciously treat accidents as if they were substances or parts as if they were wholes.

In any event, it is only by learning to think abstractly -- to engage in rational thought in its highest and purest form -- that you are ever going to understand metaphysical and theological arguments well enough to earn the right to criticize them.  “New Atheists” -- by which, again, I do not mean all atheists, but rather the likes of Dawkins, Coyne, Myers and their innumerable online clones -- have not earned this right, precisely because they do not think at this high level.  Indeed, they do very little thinking at all where metaphysics and theology are concerned, unless you count smartass remarks aimed at straw men followed by mutual high fives “thinking.”  When dealing with one of these brainiacs, you might as well meet him where he’s at and channel Biff Tannen:

491 comments:

  1. This is because he is simple, and has no parts at all. To possess a “part” of him is to necessarily possess the whole of him, or none of him.

    We have "part" of him because, as finite essence-esse composites, we cannot possibly have all of him. That is, he pours "all" of his esse into us, but, thanks to our essences, we are diversified. However, this diversification means that we cannot, as ens, be the fullness of being without opposition. In order for us to exist as something other than God, we must be placed inside limitations.

    Second, if you are going to use analogy, then there must be something that we share in common, which grounds the analogy. We may not be able to conceive of or talk about this “something in common”, but it necessarily must be there, or analogy spins off into infinite regress. And the problem is that, given the all-or-nothing nature of divine simplicity, to share “something in common” with God is to have God in oneself, and thus be a part of God, i.e. pantheism.

    Again, it isn't pantheism, but panentheism. This is a scary prospect for many contemporary Christians, even though, as I have learned, it is exactly what "classical theism" entails.

    You claimed earlier that Aquinas had elaborated upon the analogy of actuality elsewhere. Could you provide those quotes?

    I have not read Aquinas saying this directly, but Aquinas Online uses such language here: http://www.aquinasonline.com/Topics/essencex.html

    "By saying that existence is the act of being (esse) exercised by beings, Thomas understands it to be similar to form, in that it actualizes a potency as form actualizes matter. Taking the notions of an act/potency relationship learned from cosmology as form and matter, he expands the notion of form by means of analogy. Just as the substantial form of a material being determines and makes actual some part of matter, so esse actualizes the potency of a thing's essence."

    How does this apply to our knowledge of Being itself, esse subsistens? How do we possess what is unpossessable? How do we contain what is uncontainable?

    Esse subsistens enters our minds through created grace, as a gift. Unlike knowledge of a form, it does not happen because we "want it to happen". Now, this is not to say that esse subsistens is contained entirely within the mind, because this would be impossible. Rather, it enters the mind and the mind cannot restrain it, because God respects no boundaries.

    how can you see “all” of him, if there is always more of him? Would it make sense to you if I said that I had all the money in the world, except for what I didn’t have?

    It's paradoxical, of course. But so is Hilbert's Hotel. Very similar idea.

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  2. You didn’t reply to my comments about your claim that God’s being is not inherently characterized by actuality, according to Aquinas, but rather serves as “the ground” of actuality and potentiality. I offered a number of arguments purporting to show that for anything to serve as a ground or support or foundation for anything else, then the thing acting as the ground must actually exist as a ground. It must be the actuality of actuality, as you once put it. And to actualize actuality, you must both be actual and actualizing. You simply cannot escape the idea that Being itself, or esse subsistens, is inherently and necessarily act. I even provided a direct quote from Aquinas that supports this interpretation.

    Well, it's clearly true that God is some form of "act", at least in the sense that he is not potential. But, again, we've entered apophatic territory.

    As much as you claim that Caputo simply does not understand Aquinas at all, I think that he understands him quite well. After all, he is absolutely correct that Aquinas does not claim that Being itself is fundamentally characterized as much by absence as by presence, by potentiality as by actuality. For Aquinas, Being itself is pure, simple, and thus a unitary and singular kind of being. There is no invasion of absences, or traces, or abysses, or voids, or anything of the sort. Being itself is pure light, pure vision, pure presence, pure actuality, and so on.

    Caputo is correct that God is not characterized by absence, but, then, neither is he characterized by presence as we understand it. God is present in an analogous way, but his presence is not the same presence under discussion: the dialectical presence.

    If you want to argue (2), then I think you’re in trouble, and I’ve offered a number of arguments above for that position. I do not think that the doctrine of analogy can save God talk, because divine simplicity makes any account of sharing, likeness or participation incoherent or impossible. Furthermore, I do not think it makes sense to talk about something without talking about it, which is what a non-conceptual kind of discourse and experience would ultimately come down to. And that is because as soon as you start to talk about God, you are dragging in concepts and ideas that simply fall apart when used to describe God. It is like trying to hold sand as it slips through your fingers.

    (2) is my choice, and, because Thomism is panentheistic--as I have said repeatedly--, it is a valid one.

    Or, that only those who have mystical experiences could truly know anything at all about God, but that they simply would be unable to talk about him or their experiences, because there is literally nothing in the experience of common people that could connect with a mystical experience. All words simply fail to reach their targets here, and end up signifying nothing. Thus, the only proper response is silence. The fact that there is so much written about God means that this approach is simply impossible to follow, including by Aquinas, who wrote millions of words about something he shouldn’t have written anything about.

    Perhaps that's why Aquinas quit writing. Again, though, Aquinas's theology was apophatic all along. It is through apophaticism and the analogy of the divine names that we may describe God, although these pale in comparison to mystical experience.

    I'll try to get to the rest later tonight.

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  3. Regarding God's "completeness",

    I think it's the other way around. Completeness relates to freedom from restriction: not to a "completed totality". In fact, as Hart argues, it is totalized metaphysics that has the least content of all. This probably fuels his (somewhat warranted) hatred for analytic philosophy, and for Quine's work in particular. So, no: the less restricted is higher. Aquinas, I think, would agree.

    Regarding Levinas,

    Hart spits venom in the direction of Levinas for a decent chunk of his book. His understanding of the "wholly other than being" is just gibberish, on top of making God, quite literally, non-existent. He hides God so thoroughly that there's nothing left--and, somehow, we're still left with a creation-creator dialectic opposition. It's just a mess. But I think Hart might invert your claim: everything is Other, and there is no Same.

    Regarding God's "boundary",

    It makes no sense to say that God is a "boundary" unless you understand existence and non-existence as dialectical. But, in God, they aren't. Everything that exists participates in God's being: the opposite of God's being does not exist. And, as God is limitless, it must be the case that he has no boundary at all. Further, creation does exist "within God", in a sense. Nothing exists that is not in some way participating in God's being.

    Regarding the "absence-presence dynamic",

    There is no absence-presence dynamic at all. At best, you have the act/potency dynamic, which ill-read post-modernists conflate with non-being. But potential being is not absence: it is potential. Absence or "privation" is a logical structure that we use to make sense of things. So, to return to Heidegger's pitcher, it is only in one sense true that it is used for what it lacks. In reality, it is used for its potential: not for its privation.

    Further, "good vs. evil" is an abstraction. In truth, evil does not exist except as a logical construct. Sin is always non-being: it is mere privation, in which God plays no part.

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  4. I should add:

    The beings of esse commune do have non-existence as their logical opposite, because they are contingent. Contingent things, by definition, need not exist. Only God, who is necessary, does not have even a logical relationship to non-being.

    Regarding "actuality",

    What's so hard to understand? God's actuality necessarily cannot be anything we can grasp, since his actuality is esse subsistens. The actuality that we know is always A) contingent, in the case of beings; and B) superadded, in the case of act/potency.

    Regarding God's "totality" of knowledge,

    You have to realize that there is no separation between God's existence, our existence and God's knowledge. God's knowledge isn't "of things": it is everything. He doesn't view himself "from above", since he would then be divided against himself. Rather, God knows himself in that he is his own knowledge, and he knows us because everything that we are or could be is always already, by the very fact that it has esse, God's knowledge. So, to say that God knows himself is to say that his knowledge, with his esse, is infinite.

    Regarding the incoherence of God as "ever greater",

    Think of it in terms if Hilbert's Hotel. Put in an infinite number of guests, and there's still room for infinitely more. God's knowledge is like that, only without any limits at all (barring the ones that made Scotus and co. chafe).

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  5. Rank:

    Metaphysics is the analysis of esse commune. By studying esse commune, we can come to an apophatic understanding of a "something" that is "not-esse-commune", but on which esse commune must rely. But this "not-esse-commune" is necessarily beyond the scope of metaphysics: we can only discover what it is not. Does it have matter? No. Is it composite? No. And so on. Can we truly know what "being itself" even means? Of course not. We cannot even remotely conceive of an existence without a separate essence. Ipsum esse subsistens is an apophatic, analogous term.

    But there are also terms that are not simple negations. For example, saying that esse subsistens causes esse commune or that esse subsistens actualizes esse commune are both terms that are not defined negatively. After all, actualization is simply to bring into actuality what was previously not there, either because because it did not exist at all (i.e. creation ex nihilo) or because it only potentially existed. This is not defined negatively, but positively. Furthermore, the transcendentals, such as good and truth, are not defined negatively by virtue of their opposites, but are examined in a positive fashion. So, I agree that Aquinas’ theology is characterized by negative theology, but it is also characterized by positive theology.

    Hart and Aquinas share the same theology, essentially. Both are top-shelf traditionalists with encyclopedic knowledge of apophaticism. To say that being is poetic is to say that esse is beautiful, good, true and noble before it is rational. Esse is before metaphysics: it is the possibility of metaphysics.

    When you say “rational”, I assume you are talking about ratio and not intellectus, because esse is not before intellectus, because esse subsistens is intellectus.

    Again, very impressive leap. God himself does enter the intellect when we know him. This happens through created grace, I believe--but I'm kind of new to that particular version of this theory. It's common to all traditional forms of Christianity.

    From my understanding, Aquinas’ account of grace is that our nature is fundamentally flawed, and thus we are simply incapable of achieving perfection without God himself intervening to supercharge our nature by making us “godlike”. As he writes: “it is necessary that God alone should make godlike, by communicating a share in his divine nature by participation and assimilation” (ST 1a2ae 112.1) and thus, in order for us “to be sent to this supernatural happiness, we have to be divinely endowed with some additional sources of activity” (ST 1a2ae 62.1). As Davies writes: “For beautitude (beautitudo), I need virtues which are, so to speak, divine rather than human … it is the work of God in human beings raising them above their human nature to the point where they become sharers in the divine nature” (The Thought of Thomas Aquinas, p. 264)

    This happens when God himself directs our will towards him by changing the form of our will into something more like God. As Stump writes: “divinely infused grace gives the will a configuration with regard to something not by restructuring some configuration present in the will, but by adding a configuration to a will which lacks a configuration in this regard. It is for this reason that Aquinas says that divinely infused grace operates on the will in the manner of a formal cause and not in the manner of an efficient cause” (Aquinas, p. 393).

    But regardless, the bottom line is how can God enter our intellect without God actually being in our intellect?

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  6. There never was a distinction between esse commune's esse and esse divinum's esse. They're the same thing. God shares "part" of himself only in the sense that it is impossible for an essence to fully contain him. But, no: God most definitely is our existence, without question.

    First, if esse is the same in esse subsistens and esse commune, then it must be esse subsistens, because esse commune only participates in esse subsistens. And my argument is that it is impossible for something to participate in esse subsistens without it actually becoming esse subsistens, and that it why saying that esse is the same in both kinds of esse ultimately means that there is only one kind of esse at all, i.e. esse subsistens.

    Second, it is impossible for only part of him to be present in a created being, because he is not composite. Either he is fully contained, or he is totally absent. There is no partial middle ground possible due to divine simplicity. You yourself say that “it is impossible for an essence to fully contain him”, which means that the only alternative is that an essence cannot contain him at all, because it is all-or-nothing when it comes to a metaphysically simple being. To say that something is not fully contained can only mean either that it is partially contained or that it is not contained at all. There are only three possibilities here: all, some, or none. If the first one (i.e. all) isn’t possible, then that leaves the second and third. The second option (i.e. some) is impossible, and that only leaves the third (i.e. none).

    A totality, by definition, has walls and borders. It's a fortress. God doesn't work that way. As I said above, his simplicity and infinity are the direct result of his own lack of opposites.

    A totality has boundaries, yes, but they do not have to be “walls and borders”, unless you are speaking metaphorically, which ultimately boils down to boundaries. And it is a kind of boundary and containment in which everything is inside, and nothing is outside, or at least that’s what the totality is trying to achieve. With God, it is fully achieved, because there is nothing outside of his knowledge, including the infinite, as Aquinas wrote, and everything is inside. Again, knowledge is ultimately about containment, possession, and these are words that necessarily include the concept of “boundary”. The kind of boundary is obviously immaterial, but it is still a boundary, a division, an inside-outside relationship.

    While pantheism asserts that 'All is God', panentheism goes further to claim that God is greater than the universe. In addition, some forms indicate that the universe is contained within God. Much Hindu thought is highly characterized by panentheism and pantheism."

    But my argument is that panentheism is impossible, given Thomist principles. It ultimately comes down to pantheism, because to say that God “interpenetrates every part of nature” ultimately reduces to God is every part of nature. Why? Because God is metaphysically simple. If he is there, then he is either entirely there, or he is not there at all. There is no middle ground, for reasons that I’ve explained above and elsewhere.

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  7. So, yes. We do have God in the universe. He is the esse of every esse-essence compound. It does not follow, though, that God is wholly immanent, as in pantheism. Aquinas argues very powerfully that God is our existence, but that we are not God's existence.

    But it does follow.

    God cannot be both immanent and transcendent, because both immanence and transcendence imply a boundary. If God is within that boundary, then he is immanent. If God is outside that boundary, then he is transcendent. God cannot be both inside and outside that boundary, because God is simple, and thus has no parts. He cannot be partially inside and partially outside, because of his simplicity. So, he is either totally inside (i.e. immanent) or totally outside (i.e. transcendent). To say that he is both immanent and transcendent would imply that he is both totally inside and totally outside, which would be incoherent, because that would imply that he has split into two, each fully identical to the other in all its properties, but one is inside and another is outside. However, God is one, and thus this is impossible.

    Another way to look at it is to ask if God inside a boundary has the identical set of properties as God outside a boundary. This cannot be true, because God inside a boundary has the property inside a boundary, which God outside a boundary lacks, and thus they cannot be the same. And since God inside a boundary is different from God outside a boundary, then either God inside the boundary is really God or God outside the boundary is really God, because they cannot both be God at the same time. Therefore, God is either fully immanent or fully transcendent.

    A particularly powerful line from the Qu'ran tells that Allah is "closer to man than his jugular vein"--and I would borrow that line to describe the God of Thomism. As the esse of everything, God is closer to us than our own bodies. Yet God is utterly different, totally transcendent and rationally inconceivable. Hence, panentheism: God is both utterly immanent and infinitely transcendent.

    I don’t think that line from the Qur’an will help you. Muslim theologians claim that it refers to God’s knowledge and not his being. He is closer to you than your jugular vein by virtue of his knowledge. After all, Muslims conceive of God as utterly transcendent in terms of his being, but immanent in terms of his knowledge and actions.

    Esse commune is the totality of entities.

    No, esse commune is the esse of the totality of entities. The entities themselves are combinations of esse and essence. When you add up all the entities into a totality, you get a huge number of esse-essence compounds. Esse commune is the esse abstracted from each entity, and which is shared by entities in the totality of entities.

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  8. It is an abstraction because we call it a certain type of existence, when, in fact, all that it is is God's infinite esse combined with essences. This kind of existence--the existence proper to esse commune--is different from God insofar as it cannot ever be "pure existence". To bastardize Heidegger's immortal words, "being is always the being of a being", except in the case of God.

    It is an abstraction, because esse commune cannot possibly exist outside of essences. The esse-essence compound is what exists. Esse and essence are abstractions from that compound, and which only exist in the intellect, but in reality. Now, if you want to say that the esse abstracted from ens is esse subsistens, and not esse commune, then you are stuck with a few problems, such as how exactly God’s infinite esse can be restricted and limited by essences at all, as well as the arguments that I made above regarding pantheism, for example. Again, how does the infinite become finite? Doesn’t that violate the LNC? After all, either esse is infinite or finite. It cannot be both, or else you have something that is finite and not-finite (i.e. infinite), which is contradictory.

    Again, "simple" is an apophatic term. It only appears to be cataphatic. In essence, it means "God is not composite". What does that mean? Who knows. But, as Aquinas uses it, "simple" is synonymous with "not-composite". When I say that God is "neither simple nor composite", what I mean to say is that he is neither that which we cataphatically call simple nor that which we cataphatically call composite. He is something else that cannot be described in positive terms.

    I don’t think so. What do you mean by “cataphatically call simple”? Simple is not the lack of composition. That’s it. Only one being can be simple, and so there is only one referent to not-composite. You seem to imply that there are different kinds of simplicity, one of which is apophatic and one of which is cataphatic. I understand the former, but what on earth is the latter? I don’t think such a thing exists at all, and thus there is only one kind of simplicity, apophatic simplicity, and thus it makes no sense to say that God is neither simple nor compound, because he is clearly apophatically simple, which is the only kind of simplicity. To deny it is to deny simplicity itself, and thus contradict an essential property of God.

    It only holds if God is not the esse of esse commune--but he is.

    No, it holds if you ever want to use a similarity relation between God and creation. All similarity presupposes partial identity and partial difference. There must be something in common between God and creation for similarity to occur. When it comes to being, there must be something involved in being that is present in both God and creation, and which they share in common. The problem is that God is simple, and thus he cannot be partially shared in the sense that part of him is present in the being participating in the shared aspect of God. He can only be totally present or totally absent, again by virtue of his simplicity. And if he is totally present, then we are God, and pantheism holds, and if he is totally absent, then there is no similarity relationship at all, and thus no analogy, either. Again, it boils down to how a simple being can be partially present in something else. How can a being with no parts be partially elsewhere? It is just incoherent.

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  9. We have "part" of him because, as finite essence-esse composites, we cannot possibly have all of him. That is, he pours "all" of his esse into us, but, thanks to our essences, we are diversified. However, this diversification means that we cannot, as ens, be the fullness of being without opposition. In order for us to exist as something other than God, we must be placed inside limitations.

    Exactly. As you wrote: “we cannot possibly have all of him”, and yet we must have all of him in order to exist at all, because due to his divine simplicity, either all of him is there, or none of him is there. There is no such thing as him being partially there, because that implies composition, which is impossible for a simple. And if he is fully and entirely there, then he cannot be restrained or limited by anything, such as an essence, because then you have both God’s infinitude becoming finite, which is impossible, because you have a necessarily non-finite being necessarily becoming finite.

    Furthermore, remember where these essences come from. They are in the divine mind, and thus are also within the divine simplicity. How can a simple being have diverse ideas in its mind? Remember that composition is only due to difference. One part is different from another. Simplicity essentially involves sameness, and that is why there is a unity, because only one thing can be totally the same. So, how can a being with no difference have different ideas? This is also incoherent to me. It is one thing to say that the transcendentals, for example, all have the same referent, but different senses, but how does this apply to the ideas in the divine mind? Do they all have the same referent, too, but with different senses? What on earth could that mean that different ideas refer to the same thing, which must be God himself or Being itself. Where do the different senses of these ideas come from then? Are they just how they appear to our minds? Does that mean that there are no different ideas, but only a single idea, but which we diversify from our perspective? It all gets very confusing and perplexing.

    Again, it isn't pantheism, but panentheism. This is a scary prospect for many contemporary Christians, even though, as I have learned, it is exactly what "classical theism" entails.

    My argument is that either God is totally present within immanence, or totally absent in transcendence. The middle position that you are attempting is logically impossible, because God cannot be partially present in immanence and partially present in transcendence, because he is simple and without parts or composition. Thus, he is either totally immanent and totally transcendent, which I have argued is logically impossible, or he is totally immanent, which means pantheism, or totally transcendent, which implies that nothing outside of him can possibly exist due to his utter transcendence. Since creation obviously exists, it cannot be the case that he is fully transcendent, and thus we are left with fully immanent, which means pantheism.

    "By saying that existence is the act of being (esse) exercised by beings, Thomas understands it to be similar to form, in that it actualizes a potency as form actualizes matter. Taking the notions of an act/potency relationship learned from cosmology as form and matter, he expands the notion of form by means of analogy. Just as the substantial form of a material being determines and makes actual some part of matter, so esse actualizes the potency of a thing's essence."

    What I read in this passage is that esse and form are similar in that what they have in common is that they both actualize a potentiality. Form actualizes the potential in matter, and esse actualizes the potential in essence. It is all nicely under the rubric of actuality. There is no analogy between divine actuality and created actuality that does not already involve some idea of actuality. At least, not here.

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  10. Esse subsistens enters our minds through created grace, as a gift. Unlike knowledge of a form, it does not happen because we "want it to happen". Now, this is not to say that esse subsistens is contained entirely within the mind, because this would be impossible. Rather, it enters the mind and the mind cannot restrain it, because God respects no boundaries.

    And yet again you identify the impossible bind you find yourself in. You agree that it is impossible for esse subsistens to be “contained entirely within the mind”, and yet for us to have any idea of esse subsistens, this is exactly what would have to happen. Furthermore, how is it that essence can restrain esse subsistens, if esse subsistens “respects no boundaries” and cannot be restrained? Why is it that essence can do it, but intellect cannot? Finally, you still haven’t explained how the idea of esse subsistens is even possible in the mind, given that the intellect only knows things by possessing the essence/nature/form of something else, and to possess the essence/nature/form of esse subsistens is to have esse subsistens actually present in the mind, which you agree is impossible. So, again, what the hell is going on here?

    It's paradoxical, of course. But so is Hilbert's Hotel. Very similar idea.

    But then why can’t Derrida say the exact same thing about differance? Yes, it makes no sense, but “it’s paradoxical, of course.” So, everything is fine then. Honestly, you wouldn’t accept such an explanation from Derrida, or a materialist, for example, so why accept it here? Why does logical rigor suddenly become useless and discarded when it was so relentlessly applied earlier?

    Furthermore, the issue is whether fullness and infinity are consistent or inconsistent. Aquinas seems to argue that they are inconsistent when taken sequentially, which makes sense, because when taken sequentially, there is always more no matter where you are in the sequence, and thus the sequence can never be fully present. However, they are consistent when taken as a simultaneous intuition in the mind’s eye, which is how God knows creation, himself, and how we know higher principles, as well as God in the beautific vision. The issue is whether during this simultaneous intellectual intuition what is intuited, what is perceived by the mind, is perceived as fully present, i.e. every single thing is there in the perspective, or is partially present, i.e. lots of things are there, but lots of things are not there. I would say that the only way for this to make sense is to say that in the divine atemporal present in which his knowledge resides, God knows everything as an infinite totality in a simultaneous eternal instant.

    Well, it's clearly true that God is some form of "act", at least in the sense that he is not potential. But, again, we've entered apophatic territory.

    But why? Actuality is just bringing something into actual existence. It wasn’t there before, and is actual there after the intervention of actuality. This applies to ex nihilo creations, as well as change in the material world. None of this seems apophatic at all. Sure, how God actualizes reality is unknown, but the fact that he creates from nothing is understood. The motion of the planets was understood even though space-time wasn’t. It isn’t a full understanding, but it isn’t total ignorance either. Apophatic territory is the region of total ignorance, the “I know not what” area of fog and smoke and mist where you simply cannot make anything out.

    (2) is my choice, and, because Thomism is panentheistic--as I have said repeatedly--, it is a valid one.

    I don’t think it’s a valid one, and have offered a number of arguments to that effect.

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  11. I think it's the other way around. Completeness relates to freedom from restriction: not to a "completed totality". In fact, as Hart argues, it is totalized metaphysics that has the least content of all. This probably fuels his (somewhat warranted) hatred for analytic philosophy, and for Quine's work in particular. So, no: the less restricted is higher. Aquinas, I think, would agree.

    Can you give an example where completeness relates to “freedom from restriction”? For example, say that an assignment has been completed. How does this completed assignment has “freedom from restriction”? It seems that, in this case, the assignment is complete when there is nothing left to do. The absence of residual or extraneous elements is what counts as “complete” here without anything left over to be done.

    Perhaps you are referring to examples, such as having complete power or complete freedom, which certainly implies “freedom from restriction”. So, the question is whether we can uncover a common underlying essence of “completeness” that encompasses my conception and yours, because both are kinds of completeness. I would contend that your account cannot encompass my example, and furthermore, that my account can encompass yours, if I’m reading you correctly. So, even looking at complete power, for example, could be analyzed in terms of containment within a boundary. So, if you look at

    (1) the set of all possible actions without restriction imposed

    and


    (2) the set of all possible actions with restrictions imposed

    then you see that (1) is contained within (2), and (2) is contained within (1). They are enclosed within their mutual boundaries. In other words, whether there are restrictions or obstacles placed in the way of one’s actions, one’s actions will continue without difference. So, I think that my account is broader than yours, and thus should be the fundamental one, and if that is correct, then completeness has more to do with inclusion without a boundary than the absence of restrictions, which is just one particular kind of boundary (i.e. having or not having restrictions). And if that is true, then God’s completeness necessarily implies a totality.

    everything is Other, and there is no Same.

    Except for God, that is. God must be the Same, because he is simple, and simplicity does not admit of difference, because difference is essential to composition, i.e. this part is different from that part. So, difference and Otherness has no place in God. It is all the Same, all contained within the totality of his knowledge and being. Other than God is non-being, because even creation is a part of God by virtue of its possession and participation in esse. I dispute whether this account of participation is even coherent, though.

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  12. It makes no sense to say that God is a "boundary" unless you understand existence and non-existence as dialectical. But, in God, they aren't. Everything that exists participates in God's being: the opposite of God's being does not exist. And, as God is limitless, it must be the case that he has no boundary at all. Further, creation does exist "within God", in a sense. Nothing exists that is not in some way participating in God's being.

    I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that there is an inherent contradiction within Aquinas’ system between his claims about God’s being fully and completely present to himself in his knowledge and his infinitude. I do not believe that they can coexist in a consistent fashion, because the former implies limits and boundaries, and the latter implies the absence of limits and boundaries. Just repeating yourself does not address this core inconsistency, and just saying that completeness has nothing to do with boundaries is just false. Any non-divine example of “completeness” inherently has to do with containment within a boundary, and to deny this core feature of “completeness” is to destroy the very idea of “completeness” itself. And this even follows from Aquinas’ conception of knowledge as the possession in the intellect of what is outside the intellect. How can something possess something else without a boundary distinguishing the inside from the outside?

    Furthermore, you did not address my argument that all dialectics between presence and absence are ultimately about being and non-being, and so if you deny that being and non-being can exist in a dialectical relationship, then you must also deny that presence and absence, and goodness and evil, and sight and blindness, and many other dialectical relationships can exist either. There is only being and nothing else. That lands you back in Parmenides’ lap.

    There is no absence-presence dynamic at all. At best, you have the act/potency dynamic, which ill-read post-modernists conflate with non-being. But potential being is not absence: it is potential. Absence or "privation" is a logical structure that we use to make sense of things. So, to return to Heidegger's pitcher, it is only in one sense true that it is used for what it lacks. In reality, it is used for its potential: not for its privation.

    Potential being is a kind of absence. It is the absence of a kind of actuality. It is the actual absence of actuality. What ought to be is present as an absence, i.e. it has not actually happened, but is being directed to actually happen, if not obstructed by another actuality, i.e. it depends upon the absence of a restricting presence. I mean, the whole account is riddled with presences and absences.

    Further, "good vs. evil" is an abstraction. In truth, evil does not exist except as a logical construct. Sin is always non-being: it is mere privation, in which God plays no part.

    Evil and sin are like holes. Yes, there is nothing in the hole, but it is sustained by the actual surroundings. You describe the absence by virtue of the presences that are actually there, and the absences have an impact by serving as a kind of distortion in actuality that affects how actuality can operate. After all, I can fall into a hole, and thus an absence can have an impact upon me just as much as a presence can, even though the reason I fall is not just the absence of matter in the hole, but also the presence of gravity. Again, there seems to be an inherent dynamic in which each affects the other in some sense.

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  13. What's so hard to understand? God's actuality necessarily cannot be anything we can grasp, since his actuality is esse subsistens. The actuality that we know is always A) contingent, in the case of beings; and B) superadded, in the case of act/potency.

    I already described my definition of “actualization”, which is the bringing into actual existence from either absolute non-existence (i.e. non-being) or relative non-existence (i.e. potentiality). It inherently has to do with presence. Something must be there to be actually existing, and thus actuality does things, makes things, whether from nothingness or from potentiality.

    You have to realize that there is no separation between God's existence, our existence and God's knowledge. God's knowledge isn't "of things": it is everything. He doesn't view himself "from above", since he would then be divided against himself. Rather, God knows himself in that he is his own knowledge, and he knows us because everything that we are or could be is always already, by the very fact that it has esse, God's knowledge. So, to say that God knows himself is to say that his knowledge, with his esse, is infinite.

    First, part of everything is things, and thus his knowledge must also be about things.

    Second, I understand that he is metaphysically simple, and thus his kind of knowledge is not the kind of knowledge between subject and object, because he is both subject and object at the same time, which I also think is utterly incoherent. Again, knowledge is about containment and possession. As I said before, if you have another definition of “knowledge”, then I’d be glad to hear it. Anyway, God’s knowledge would have to contain or possess him in his entirety and completely, but then the possessor and the possessed would be the same, which I think is impossible. Even to say that one knows oneself does not mean that there is no subject and object. Rather, there is a clear distinction between one’s conception of oneself and one’s actual self. The former is an abstraction in the mind from a concrete particular in the world. There are no other examples of divine knowledge that are coherent outside of divine knowledge.

    To say that God’s knowledge is different from our knowledge, and that we simply cannot understand it at all, except analogously, just begs the question: what exactly is common between God’s knowledge and our knowledge that justifies his knowledge being called “knowledge” at all? If you have no idea, then you simply cannot describe what he does as “knowledge”. You can call it “X” instead. God X’s. There. That’s informative. Again, if you want to be consistent with your negative theology, then you shouldn’t even use normal words to describe what God does unless you can describe a shared commonality between God and creation, and if you cannot, then you should just say that God X’s and Y’s, and so on, and just leave the variables empty, because otherwise, you are just being deceitful by implying that there is a comparison between God’s “knowledge” and our knowledge when you know that there isn’t.

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  14. Think of it in terms if Hilbert's Hotel. Put in an infinite number of guests, and there's still room for infinitely more. God's knowledge is like that, only without any limits at all (barring the ones that made Scotus and co. chafe).

    Again, it depends upon whether you look at the matter instantaneously or sequentially. It is conceivable in the former, but not in the latter. And there are problems with the former, too.

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  15. Regarding God's immanence,

    I don't think you quite understand what "without restriction" means. God is omnipresent and still infinitely distant because he cannot be contained. There is no barrier between "immanence" and "transcendence" for him--only for us. As Hart likes to put it, God is immanent and transcendent, but he is also the infinite distance that separates the two. Think of God as a "presence" that is everywhere and yet which cannot be located anywhere. That is, because he is without borders, he is always already inside and beyond every border. "God is simple" conveys that he is in no way limited, which means that it is perfectly logical for him to pervade everything.

    Regarding the difference between God and creation,

    You seem to think that anything participating in God's esse would become God, by necessity. Why? We are esse-essence composites, while God is esse itself. It is because of our composition that we may participate without being annihilated. Essence does not "restrain" existence so much as diversifies it, like light through a prism. But, because it is diversified, it loses its infinite perfection and becomes finite.

    Regarding God's "boundary",

    Again, you've just missed the point. It is not that God "knows everything", but that he knows and understands and exists simultaneously. This cannot be a boundary unless you reify non-existence, which would be fallacious. God's knowledge "contains" everything because God is everything. But, again, God's knowledge cannot be described as a containment at all, unless we're speaking univocally. He knows and is everything at the same moment.

    Regarding the necessity of pantheism,

    Your arguments to this effect all hinge on one central misunderstanding: exactly what is meant when God is called simple. But your grasp of this is demonstrably lacking, because it flies in the face of what basically every theologian until Scotus believed. "God is simple" means that God is capable of being everywhere and nowhere, in that he is the existence of everything but also nowhere contained by totality. He transcends and is the substance of every boundary, always already there and yet not there: essence-esse composites participate in him but do not contain him; they point beyond themselves. If you think this is unfaithful to Aquinas, then you clearly have more to learn about his roots. Augustine--described by Aquinas simply as "The Theologian"--endorsed views almost identical to these in Confessions.

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  16. God cannot be both immanent and transcendent, because both immanence and transcendence imply a boundary. If God is within that boundary, then he is immanent. If God is outside that boundary, then he is transcendent. God cannot be both inside and outside that boundary, because God is simple, and thus has no parts. He cannot be partially inside and partially outside, because of his simplicity. So, he is either totally inside (i.e. immanent) or totally outside (i.e. transcendent). To say that he is both immanent and transcendent would imply that he is both totally inside and totally outside, which would be incoherent, because that would imply that he has split into two, each fully identical to the other in all its properties, but one is inside and another is outside. However, God is one, and thus this is impossible.

    God is immanent, transcendent and the wall that separates the two--which exists for us but not for him. Again, Hart goes on about this constantly, and his views on this are perfectly in line with those of Aquinas and of tradition in general.

    I don’t think that line from the Qur’an will help you. Muslim theologians claim that it refers to God’s knowledge and not his being. He is closer to you than your jugular vein by virtue of his knowledge. After all, Muslims conceive of God as utterly transcendent in terms of his being, but immanent in terms of his knowledge and actions.

    Depends on the interpretation--Sufis take it very literally. But, yes. I was merely borrowing it to express an idea; I had no intention of trying to build my case by relying on Islam, which would be a red herring in this situation.

    It is an abstraction, because esse commune cannot possibly exist outside of essences. The esse-essence compound is what exists. Esse and essence are abstractions from that compound, and which only exist in the intellect, but in reality. Now, if you want to say that the esse abstracted from ens is esse subsistens, and not esse commune, then you are stuck with a few problems, such as how exactly God’s infinite esse can be restricted and limited by essences at all, as well as the arguments that I made above regarding pantheism, for example. Again, how does the infinite become finite? Doesn’t that violate the LNC? After all, either esse is infinite or finite. It cannot be both, or else you have something that is finite and not-finite (i.e. infinite), which is contradictory.

    I would say that the esse "abstracted" from esse commune is esse subsistens, but that esse cannot be abstracted to begin with. To abstract esse from an ens is to lose that esse entirely. Conceptually, we know that the esse of an ens is different than its essence, but we cannot even remotely understand that esse on its own.

    The infinite becomes finite because it is "joined" with essence, through which it is diversified. Esse itself is never finite: only the essence-esse compounds that it sustains fall into that category.

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  17. I don’t think so. What do you mean by “cataphatically call simple”? Simple is not the lack of composition. That’s it. Only one being can be simple, and so there is only one referent to not-composite. You seem to imply that there are different kinds of simplicity, one of which is apophatic and one of which is cataphatic. I understand the former, but what on earth is the latter? I don’t think such a thing exists at all, and thus there is only one kind of simplicity, apophatic simplicity, and thus it makes no sense to say that God is neither simple nor compound, because he is clearly apophatically simple, which is the only kind of simplicity. To deny it is to deny simplicity itself, and thus contradict an essential property of God.

    Scotus affirms divine simplicity while simultaneously giving us a univocal relationship with God--so, clearly, you must be wrong that simplicity is only apophatic.

    Again, it boils down to how a simple being can be partially present in something else. How can a being with no parts be partially elsewhere? It is just incoherent.

    It isn't "partially elsewhere", except from our perspective. Again: immanent, transcendent and the infinite distance between the two. Nothing that exists--including the wall between immanence and transcendence--is "outside" of God.

    Exactly. As you wrote: “we cannot possibly have all of him”, and yet we must have all of him in order to exist at all, because due to his divine simplicity, either all of him is there, or none of him is there. There is no such thing as him being partially there, because that implies composition, which is impossible for a simple. And if he is fully and entirely there, then he cannot be restrained or limited by anything, such as an essence, because then you have both God’s infinitude becoming finite, which is impossible, because you have a necessarily non-finite being necessarily becoming finite.

    We cannot possibly have all of him because he knows no borders. Any container that he's put into always already overflows, in a sense. And there is no problem with the infinite becoming finite, because it never really does: esse is the light behind the prism of essence, and, were the light ever to leave, so too would the colors on the other side of the prism. Esse is never reduced to the finite: this would be impossible.

    They are in the divine mind, and thus are also within the divine simplicity. How can a simple being have diverse ideas in its mind? Remember that composition is only due to difference. One part is different from another. Simplicity essentially involves sameness, and that is why there is a unity, because only one thing can be totally the same. So, how can a being with no difference have different ideas? This is also incoherent to me. It is one thing to say that the transcendentals, for example, all have the same referent, but different senses, but how does this apply to the ideas in the divine mind? Do they all have the same referent, too, but with different senses? What on earth could that mean that different ideas refer to the same thing, which must be God himself or Being itself. Where do the different senses of these ideas come from then? Are they just how they appear to our minds? Does that mean that there are no different ideas, but only a single idea, but which we diversify from our perspective? It all gets very confusing and perplexing.

    Aquinas solves this problem here: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1015.htm

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  18. Finally, you still haven’t explained how the idea of esse subsistens is even possible in the mind, given that the intellect only knows things by possessing the essence/nature/form of something else, and to possess the essence/nature/form of esse subsistens is to have esse subsistens actually present in the mind, which you agree is impossible.

    Who, exactly, agreed that esse subsistens can't exist in the mind? That's what it means to have the Beatific Vision--the literal definition. And, yes: the Beatific Vision is a vision of God's essence, which enters the intellect. The mind, obviously, cannot hold that which always already composes it and extends infinitely beyond it. So, esse subsistens enters the mind but is not restrained there. Who said that knowledge was about restraining things, anyway? Sounds very Kantian.

    But then why can’t Derrida say the exact same thing about differance? Yes, it makes no sense, but “it’s paradoxical, of course.” So, everything is fine then. Honestly, you wouldn’t accept such an explanation from Derrida, or a materialist, for example, so why accept it here? Why does logical rigor suddenly become useless and discarded when it was so relentlessly applied earlier?

    Hilbert's Hotel is a paradox that is not logically false. That's why. Derridean and materialist talk is logically false and self-refuting, and so must be wrong.

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  19. But why? Actuality is just bringing something into actual existence. It wasn’t there before, and is actual there after the intervention of actuality. This applies to ex nihilo creations, as well as change in the material world. None of this seems apophatic at all. Sure, how God actualizes reality is unknown, but the fact that he creates from nothing is understood.

    The fact that he creates from nothing is only understood apophatically. What is the opposite of our existence? Non-existence. What is non-existence? It cannot be known except logically. What is existence? We cannot define it except by opposition to non-existence, which exists in logic only. So, clearly, the opposite of our existence is nothingness, but we can neither define our existence nor define what nothingness. Our creation from nothing, then, is a complete mystery.

    Can you give an example where completeness relates to “freedom from restriction”? For example, say that an assignment has been completed. How does this completed assignment has “freedom from restriction”? It seems that, in this case, the assignment is complete when there is nothing left to do. The absence of residual or extraneous elements is what counts as “complete” here without anything left over to be done.

    Think of it in the terms that Aquinas would have. In ancient science, for instance, "fire" was the highest element, and it appeared in all things fiery, to a lesser extent. But fire itself, as an element, was in no way particular nor restricted to specific situations. Thus, the least restricted--the most general--was the most perfect, and the most restricted was the least. Even though ancient science is gone, this logic is still valid when applied to God.

    Except for God, that is. God must be the Same, because he is simple, and simplicity does not admit of difference, because difference is essential to composition, i.e. this part is different from that part. So, difference and Otherness has no place in God. It is all the Same, all contained within the totality of his knowledge and being. Other than God is non-being, because even creation is a part of God by virtue of its possession and participation in esse.

    Hart would take you to task, here. God, as Trinity, is always already Other. Created difference is merely an expression of divine difference, as seen in the Trinity. A good half of his book is dedicated to this very subject. It does not in any way violate simplicity, by the way.

    And this even follows from Aquinas’ conception of knowledge as the possession in the intellect of what is outside the intellect. How can something possess something else without a boundary distinguishing the inside from the outside?

    Boundaries are for essence-esse compounds. They are the result of essence. For us to know something is for its essence to enter our minds. But God clearly cannot know this way, because he is prior to essence, and so is the cause both of our essence and existence. He must, then, know them insofar as he is in them and they are in him, as with the divine ideas. For God to "possess knowledge" would be an accidental feature, which violates divine simplicity.

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  20. Furthermore, you did not address my argument that all dialectics between presence and absence are ultimately about being and non-being, and so if you deny that being and non-being can exist in a dialectical relationship, then you must also deny that presence and absence, and goodness and evil, and sight and blindness, and many other dialectical relationships can exist either. There is only being and nothing else. That lands you back in Parmenides’ lap.

    I did address it. All of those dialectics are false ones. There is no ontological dialectic between good and evil, sight and blindness and so on. These exist as logical relationships in the mind only. But this does not put us in Parmenides' company. The only thing that could do so would be the claim that potential being is non-being, which is false, as Aquinas writes.

    Potential being is a kind of absence. It is the absence of a kind of actuality. It is the actual absence of actuality. What ought to be is present as an absence, i.e. it has not actually happened, but is being directed to actually happen, if not obstructed by another actuality, i.e. it depends upon the absence of a restricting presence. I mean, the whole account is riddled with presences and absences.

    Potential being is a kind of being--it is in no way an absence. If it was a real absence, then it would not be potential: it would be nothing. Your claims above are just confusion along the lines of something that Heidegger or Derrida might write: reified abstractions conflated with real being.

    After all, I can fall into a hole, and thus an absence can have an impact upon me just as much as a presence can, even though the reason I fall is not just the absence of matter in the hole, but also the presence of gravity.

    What you fall into is potential being--not nothing. If you fell into an absence, then you would cease to exist. When we talk about a hole in logical terms, it is indeed true that it is a privation and a logical being. However, when you fall into a hole, you fall into a real space filled with actual and potential being. Consider: a man-made contraption called an "eloh" that is a large cylinder of dirt with a hole in the middle. This eloh is actually empty and potentially full of you: and, if you fall into it, it becomes actually full of you. Likewise, when we say that a glass is potentially full, we are not referring to its privation, but to its potential being. Sin, on the other hand, really is nothing at all: a total lack of being.

    Heidegger's discussion of this issue is just a mess of confused terms.

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  21. Regarding your definition of God's actualization,

    Let's think about this in stricter terms. God-in-himself is a giant apophatic hole in our knowledge. This is because he contains no composition whatsoever: his existence, his knowledge, his actions and so on are all identical. But this means that any talk of God being "actual" must also be apophatic and analogous--another divine name. This simply must be the case, because any other option gives us univocity and separates God from his properties, which violates divine simplicity. When God is called "actual", it is only analogous to our actuality, which derives from his. (Analogy remains is valid because his being is our being, which gives us something in common.)

    Also, as I said above, even our creation is apophatic. It's a total mystery, since we cannot see nor rationally comprehend esse-on-its-own, nor can we understand non-being.

    Regarding God's knowledge,

    You realize that your description of knowledge is utterly modern, right? Aquinas understood knowledge as truth--converted from exterior being--that existed in the intellect. But God is being itself, and therefore truth itself, and therefore knowledge itself. To say that God must "meta-see" himself in order to have "real knowledge" is what begs the question, here. God knows himself because everything that he is, he knows. But he is infinite. So he has an infinite knowledge that we cannot even pretend to describe, except by analogy. (Before you claim that analogy is invalid here, remember that God is the source and embodiment of knowledge, as he is with all of his attributes. Anything less is theistic personalism, onto-theology and totality.)

    Regarding Hilbert's Hotel,

    God knows everything simultaneously because he is everything that he is simultaneously. But, when we describe God's knowledge, all we can do is gesture toward the "ever greater" and Hilbert's Hotel. These are analogies. You, on the other hand, seem to insist that God knows univocally, and that he therefore is an onto-theological totality. But he can't be described univocally, and so the objection fails.

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  22. Rank:

    Your arguments to this effect all hinge on one central misunderstanding: exactly what is meant when God is called simple. But your grasp of this is demonstrably lacking, because it flies in the face of what basically every theologian until Scotus believed. "God is simple" means that God is capable of being everywhere and nowhere, in that he is the existence of everything but also nowhere contained by totality. He transcends and is the substance of every boundary, always already there and yet not there: essence-esse composites participate in him but do not contain him; they point beyond themselves. If you think this is unfaithful to Aquinas, then you clearly have more to learn about his roots. Augustine--described by Aquinas simply as "The Theologian"--endorsed views almost identical to these in Confessions.

    First, can you quote Aquinas regarding that definition of “simplicity”? Perhaps what you are saying is that one of the implications of divine simplicity is that “God is capable of being everywhere and nowhere”, and so on? That seems a bit more defensible, because “simplicity” just means “lack of composition”. That is all. Now, from this concept, many other important implications flow, but those implications are not part of the definition of “simplicity”, but only follow from it.

    Second, I really enjoyed your paragraph, but it made no sense to me, given divine simplicity. If God is everywhere, somewhere, or nowhere, then he is fully and totally everywhere, somewhere, or nowhere. That is because there is no sense to God being partly anything. Again, this follows from divine simplicity as divine non-composition. So, if God is fully and totally here, and fully and totally there, then you have a contradiction, because that would mean that there are two identical Gods, one being here, and one being there, which is impossible. Therefore, God cannot be fully and totally here and fully and totally there, and if that is impossible, then he cannot be fully and totally everywhere, because everywhere is just the totality of all the here’s and there’s.

    Third, I’m certainly ignorant of patristic theology. I make no claims to be familiar or an expect on this subject matter. Perhaps you can quote Augustine on this doctrine, and Aquinas, as well? But I’ll just make the aside that Aquinas also called Aristotle “the Philosopher”, and yet he differed from him in a number of important respects.

    Fourth, what exactly did Duns Scotus do that was so terrible for Christian theology?

    Again, you've just missed the point. It is not that God "knows everything", but that he knows and understands and exists simultaneously. This cannot be a boundary unless you reify non-existence, which would be fallacious. God's knowledge "contains" everything because God is everything. But, again, God's knowledge cannot be described as a containment at all, unless we're speaking univocally. He knows and is everything at the same moment.

    First, God is not everything. God is not creation, because God’s essence is identical to esse, and creation’s essence is not identical to esse, and thus they cannot possibly be identical, because they differ in key properties. So, I do not know what you mean when you say that “God is everything”. I can promise you that Aquinas disagrees with you in that there is a clear distinction between the simple God and the composite creation.

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  23. Second, it would be helpful to keep Aquinas’ account of knowledge in mind. Knowledge is only possible in immaterial entities, because immaterial entities can possess more than one form without becoming what the form contains. The more immaterial the entity, the more perfect its knowledge, because absolutely none of its possessed forms will become themselves in matter. For example, the form of “dog” will simply be the form of dog in the intellect whereas it will be a particular dog in matter. This account is saturated with concepts of containment, because it is within the intellect that these forms reside. If you eliminate containment, boundaries, an inside/outside distinction, then you destroy the very account of knowledge that Aquinas has developed. If God has no containment or boundaries, then God has no knowledge.

    Third, I would apply the same analysis to this idea as to analogy. Either God is the same as creation, similar to creation, or different from creation. If he is the same as creation, i.e. “God is everything”, then you have pantheism. If he similar to creation, then he must be partly the same and partly different from creation. However, this is impossible, because of divine simplicity. There is no such thing as God being “partly” anything. If he is different from creation, then they share nothing in common, including being, and thus creation cannot exist.

    You seem to think that anything participating in God's esse would become God, by necessity. Why? We are esse-essence composites, while God is esse itself. It is because of our composition that we may participate without being annihilated. Essence does not "restrain" existence so much as diversifies it, like light through a prism. But, because it is diversified, it loses its infinite perfection and becomes finite.

    First, I do not understand how you you can deny that essence restrains esse, and yet admit that essence causes the infinite to become finite. If that does not count as “restraint”, then I do not know what to tell you. “Restraint” just means “restriction”, which just means “setting a limit, or boundary, that cannot be crossed”. And if that which is infinite (= without limit or boundary) becomes that which is finite (= with limit or boundary), then that means by definition a restraint has occurred, because a limitation upon the infinite has been placed.

    Second, esse commune is supposed to participate in esse subsistens. How is this possible? How can you participate in something metaphysically simple? To participate is to take part in something, i.e. to become a part of something else, but how can you take part in something that has no parts without becoming that something itself? For example, if a team necessarily consisted of one player, then if you participate in the team, then you are the team.

    Similarly, it makes no sense to say that esse subsistens shares a part of itself with esse commune, because esse subsistens has no parts. It either shares all of itself or none of itself. If the former, then it must share itself as infinite and without limits, which would obliterate any finitude in the composite being. If the latter, then the composite being would not exist at all.

    Furthermore, if this participation is supposed to be a kind of causation, and causation is a matter of giving and sharing from cause to effect, then there must be something shared between cause and effect. However, a metaphysically simple being can only share all of itself or none of itself, and thus if there is such a participation relationship, then esse subsistens must share all of itself, which means that it must be fully present in the esse of the esse-essence composite, and which means that there is no such thing as esse commune at all.

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  24. God is immanent, transcendent and the wall that separates the two--which exists for us but not for him. Again, Hart goes on about this constantly, and his views on this are perfectly in line with those of Aquinas and of tradition in general.

    Great. So, the question is whether God is totally immanent, totally transcendent, or totally between the two. After all, he cannot be partially immanent, partially transcendent, and partially between the two. By virtue of divine simplicity, he is all-or-nothing. And I have offered arguments to say that he must be either totally immanent, totally transcendent, or totally between the two. After all, if he could be totally immanent and totally transcendent and totally between the two, then it would follow that there are three simple beings. Why? Because the following beings have different properties:

    (1) a totally immanent being
    (2) a totally transcendent being
    (3) a totally between the two being

    (1) has the property of immanence, which (2) and (3) lack. (2) has the property of transcendence, which (1) and (3) lack. (3) has the property of in-between, which (1) and (2) lack. Therefore, (1), (2) and (3) cannot be identical, because no identical beings can differ in their properties. And if they cannot be identical, then they must be different, and thus (1), (2) and (3) are different simple beings. However, it is impossible for there to be more than one simple being. Thus, either (1), (2) or (3) must be the simple being in question, the others being composite derivatives.

    That’s the argument.

    Scotus affirms divine simplicity while simultaneously giving us a univocal relationship with God--so, clearly, you must be wrong that simplicity is only apophatic.

    I can’t comment on Scotus … yet.

    It isn't "partially elsewhere", except from our perspective. Again: immanent, transcendent and the infinite distance between the two. Nothing that exists--including the wall between immanence and transcendence--is "outside" of God.

    As I said above, I don’t think that you can make this argument. It leads to a contradiction, i.e. the existence of three distinct simple beings, which is impossible. Furthermore, you are equivocating upon “outside”. Creation is outside God in the sense of being distinct from him. That is why even with the beautific vision, a person does not become God, but only godlike. It is this “likeness” that I believe is incorrect. There is no such thing as “likeness” when it comes a metaphysically simple being, because likeness implies similarity, and similarity only makes sense with composition (i.e. partly the same, partly different). No similarity, no likeness, no god-like, no grace, no beautific vision. That seems to be one of the implications of the doctrine of divine simplicity, at least as far as I can tell.

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  25. We cannot possibly have all of him because he knows no borders. Any container that he's put into always already overflows, in a sense. And there is no problem with the infinite becoming finite, because it never really does: esse is the light behind the prism of essence, and, were the light ever to leave, so too would the colors on the other side of the prism. Esse is never reduced to the finite: this would be impossible.

    First, your analogy breaks down. Light is not simple. It is compound, and the only reason the prism separates the different wavelengths of light into a spectrum is that there are different wavelengths of light. What appears to be simple is actually compound, and it is the compound nature of white light that makes the prism possible, and your analogy sheds no light upon how a simple and infinite being can become a compound and finite being.

    Second, either esse subsistens is the same as esse commune, similar to esse commune, or different from esse commune. If it is the same, then esse commune must also be simple, which is impossible, because esse commune is compound. If it is similar, then esse subsistens must be partly the same and partly different from esse commune, but this is impossible, because esse subsistens cannot be compound due to its metaphysical simplicity. If it is different, then nothing else other than God can exist, which is impossible, because compound beings clearly exist. All possibilities lead to absurdities.

    Aquinas solves this problem here: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1015.htm

    Thanks for the reference, but I’m afraid that it really does not help, probably because I just don’t understand it.

    The part that is directly relevant to my questions is 1a.15.2. Aquinas argues that God must have a multiplicity of forms (because ideas = forms [ST 1a.15.1]) in his essence. He then turns to the question of whether having multiple forms is “repugnant to the simplicity of God”. He argues that it is not. How does he do so? He argues that God’s knowledge of his essence is such that it necessarily includes both (1) knowing his essence in itself and (2) knowing his essence as it can be participated in by composite beings by virtue of “some degree of likeness” to his essence. Insofar as God knows (2), he necessarily knows particular forms. Therefore, God understands multiple forms in his intellect.

    I really have no idea how that is supposed to reconcile the necessity of multiple forms in God’s essence with God’s metaphysical simplicity. If God cannot be compound, then how can he have multiple forms? Aquinas’ argument does not help address this issue at all, I’m afraid, unless you can elaborate the argument that he is trying to make.

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  26. Who, exactly, agreed that esse subsistens can't exist in the mind? That's what it means to have the Beatific Vision--the literal definition. And, yes: the Beatific Vision is a vision of God's essence, which enters the intellect. The mind, obviously, cannot hold that which always already composes it and extends infinitely beyond it. So, esse subsistens enters the mind but is not restrained there. Who said that knowledge was about restraining things, anyway? Sounds very Kantian.

    As I mentioned, Aquinas’ idea of the intellect is an immaterial being that can possess forms without becoming what those forms are. As Davies writes: “to understand what, for example, a dog is means having in oneself what it takes to be a dog (the form of a dog) without actually being a dog” (The Thought of Thomas Aquinas, p. 127) and that “Aquinas holds that forms can be received in the intellect immaterially” (Ibid., p. 128). To know X is to possess the form of X in the intellect. The whole account is saturated to the brim with containment, possession, boundaries, and inside/outside. Try to make sense of it without using anything involving these concepts. If this account is valid, then for God to be known by the mind, then the form of God must be contained by the intellect, and the problem is that the form of God = the existence of God, and thus God himself must be fully present within the intellect, which you agree is impossible. So, either the account is false, or God is unknowable by the intellect.

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  27. Rank:

    Oh, and regarding how essence “restrains” esse, here’s a passage I just read from Wippel: “within a given substance its essence principle receives and limits, to be sure, but also determines and specifies its correlative act of being” (The Metaphysical Thought of Thomas Aquinas, p. 191; bolded mine). It seems that essence does limit esse, which means that it “restrains” it after all.

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  28. After significant reading of opaque texts, I've come to the conclusion that I was mistaken about the relationship of esse commune and esse subsistens. As with my flubs in the past, I profusely apologize.

    It appears to me that esse commune is an abstraction of the totality of individual acts of existence--each individual actus essendi. God, then, is not the esse in esse-essence, which had been screwing me up. The esse in esse-essence is actus essendi, which is proper to particulars. The esse in esse-essence, then, is in one sense esse commune. God, however, is "ipse actus essendi subsistens". That is to say, he is not the act of existence for an essence, but actus essendi as such, without a separate referent. In other words, we may speak of God in the following way. All esse-essence compounds possess acts of existence, and we abstract these into a logical totality of esse. Because esse is simple when individualized, and because our logical concept of esse contains all perfections associated with particular instantiations of actus essendi, it is somewhat like God. However, this logical concept--esse commune--still does not really exist. Being is always the being of a being, and anything else is an abstraction.

    But there is something very much like esse commune that does exist, and this is something that is not the totality of actus essendi, but is the possibility of that totality. This is ipse actus essendi subsistens--an actus essendi without a cause or a restricting essence. This is esse divinum. I had missed a key distinction in Aquinas's ontology. God is not the direct existence of every esse-essence compound--a more straight-up form of panentheism--but rather operates by an intermediary, in that every esse-essence compound has a unique actus essendi (esse) that is itself caused by God. Nonetheless, it may still be said that God gives and is the being of everything, although at an analogical interval.

    So, what is the result of this? It means that God is related to esse-essence compounds not directly, as their esse itself, but as something like the efficient cause of the entire compound, including the individual actus essendi. God, in other words, is even more transcendent than I'd realized. However, I would still describe Thomism as panentheistic, particularly because this label has been used for Eastern Orthodoxy, whose teachings are almost identical. And it remains true that God is immanent in everything, insofar as the cause always appears in the effect.

    I'll discuss the further implications of my discovery, alongside your other concerns, tomorrow.

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  29. Rank:

    The fact that he creates from nothing is only understood apophatically. What is the opposite of our existence? Non-existence. What is non-existence? It cannot be known except logically. What is existence? We cannot define it except by opposition to non-existence, which exists in logic only. So, clearly, the opposite of our existence is nothingness, but we can neither define our existence nor define what nothingness. Our creation from nothing, then, is a complete mystery.

    What is the opposite of our existence? That depends on what you mean by “our existence”. If you mean ens, then the opposite could be either simple being or non-being. If you mean our actual existence, then the opposite could be either potential being or non-being.

    Think of it in the terms that Aquinas would have. In ancient science, for instance, "fire" was the highest element, and it appeared in all things fiery, to a lesser extent. But fire itself, as an element, was in no way particular nor restricted to specific situations. Thus, the least restricted--the most general--was the most perfect, and the most restricted was the least. Even though ancient science is gone, this logic is still valid when applied to God.

    But what does that have to do with completeness? You said “complete” = “no restrictions”.

    Hart would take you to task, here. God, as Trinity, is always already Other. Created difference is merely an expression of divine difference, as seen in the Trinity. A good half of his book is dedicated to this very subject. It does not in any way violate simplicity, by the way.

    Well, Aquinas associates difference with non-being. Here’s Wippel: “esse insofar as it is esse cannot be diverse. It can only be diversified by something which is other than esse … This diversifying principle, of course, is essence … Because Thomas has here referred to such a principle as that whcihis other than esse, he could also, it would seem, describe this princple – essence – as nonbeing. Nonbeing when s used would not be absolute nothingness, of course, but nonbeing in a relative sense – the negation of the act of being” (The Metaphysical Thought of Thomas Aquinas, p. 187). It would thus seem to follow that if there is Otherness, or difference, within God, then there is non-being within God, which is impossible.

    Boundaries are for essence-esse compounds. They are the result of essence. For us to know something is for its essence to enter our minds. But God clearly cannot know this way, because he is prior to essence, and so is the cause both of our essence and existence. He must, then, know them insofar as he is in them and they are in him, as with the divine ideas. For God to "possess knowledge" would be an accidental feature, which violates divine simplicity.

    Exactly. They are in him, which is all possession means. It inevitably involves an inside and an outside, because the two exist in a dialectical relationship. You cannot have an inside without an outside, and vice versa. If God has no inside, because there is literally non-being on the outside, which is not actually a real outside in any way, then he has no knowledge, either, because knowledge necessarily involves possession of forms inside an intellect.

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  30. What you fall into is potential being--not nothing. If you fell into an absence, then you would cease to exist. When we talk about a hole in logical terms, it is indeed true that it is a privation and a logical being. However, when you fall into a hole, you fall into a real space filled with actual and potential being. Consider: a man-made contraption called an "eloh" that is a large cylinder of dirt with a hole in the middle. This eloh is actually empty and potentially full of you: and, if you fall into it, it becomes actually full of you. Likewise, when we say that a glass is potentially full, we are not referring to its privation, but to its potential being. Sin, on the other hand, really is nothing at all: a total lack of being.

    I think that you are right here.

    Let's think about this in stricter terms. God-in-himself is a giant apophatic hole in our knowledge. This is because he contains no composition whatsoever: his existence, his knowledge, his actions and so on are all identical. But this means that any talk of God being "actual" must also be apophatic and analogous--another divine name. This simply must be the case, because any other option gives us univocity and separates God from his properties, which violates divine simplicity. When God is called "actual", it is only analogous to our actuality, which derives from his. (Analogy remains is valid because his being is our being, which gives us something in common.)

    But, again, analogy presupposes similarity, which presupposes partial identity and partial difference. If God’s “actuality” is analogous to our actuality, then God’s “actuality” and our actuality must have partial identity and partial difference. In other words, they are partly the same, and partly different. For the partial identity portion of the similarity relationship, there must be something in common shared between “actuality” and actuality, which is possessed by “actuality” and then given to actuality by virtue of the principle of proportionate causality.

    Perhaps this common “something”, call it X, is simply unknowable by us, a “giant apophatic hole in our knowledge”. But in that case, how can we possibly know anything about X at all, including that it is similar to actuality as we understand it? Seriously, you say that “actuality” is like actuality, but only by virtue of X. Do you feel like you understand “actuality” at all? It certainly seems like X has no content whatsoever. You might as well say that God is the X that Y’s, which would even be too much information, because it says that God is determinate (i.e. the X) and performs some kind of action (i.e. that Y’s). That would be a kind of knowledge, which you say is impossible. So, all we could say is that God = X, and just leave it at that. Anything else tries to speak something into the equation to bring some form or content into the mist and fog of the X.

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  31. Furthermore, if this X is that “his being is our being”, then you have be more specific here. Are you saying that God’s being is identical to our being? That is impossible, because his being is infinite and our being is finite. Are you saying that God’s being is the cause of our being? In that case, by virtue of the principle of proportionate causality, God’s being gives something to our being. What is this “something”? We have no idea, and so we can call it X, because even “something” is too determinate. So, you are saying that God’s being is like our being by virtue of a shared X. There are two problems with this. One, that the idea of God sharing anything other than himself in his entirety is incoherent, because of divine simplicity. Two, that if you do not know what is shared, then you shouldn’t even be using the word “being” when it comes to God. You should say that God’s Y is like our being by virtue of a shared X. That is what a consistent and honest apophatic theology would look like, and you are certainly free to build a theology upon that statement. Unfortunately, it will be completely empty of any content whatsoever.

    You realize that your description of knowledge is utterly modern, right? Aquinas understood knowledge as truth--converted from exterior being--that existed in the intellect. But God is being itself, and therefore truth itself, and therefore knowledge itself. To say that God must "meta-see" himself in order to have "real knowledge" is what begs the question, here. God knows himself because everything that he is, he knows. But he is infinite. So he has an infinite knowledge that we cannot even pretend to describe, except by analogy. (Before you claim that analogy is invalid here, remember that God is the source and embodiment of knowledge, as he is with all of his attributes. Anything less is theistic personalism, onto-theology and totality.)

    First, my description of “knowledge” is taken straight from Aquinas. To know X is to possess the form of X in an intellect. To know God is to possess the form of God in an intellect, and because “the form of God” = “the esse of God” = “God himself” means that to know God is to possess God himself in an intellect, which is impossible. Therefore, either Aquinas’ account of knowledge is false, or we cannot ever know God via the intellect, whether in mystical experiences or in the beautific vision.

    Second, as an aside, if matter is the principle of potency, and the intellect is immaterial, then the intellect lacks potency. So, how could an intellect come to know something at all? That would imply a transition from potentially knowing X to actually knowing X, which is impossible without matter.

    Third, it is Aquinas himself that uses vision as the model of the kind of knowledge that God has.

    God knows everything simultaneously because he is everything that he is simultaneously. But, when we describe God's knowledge, all we can do is gesture toward the "ever greater" and Hilbert's Hotel. These are analogies. You, on the other hand, seem to insist that God knows univocally, and that he therefore is an onto-theological totality. But he can't be described univocally, and so the objection fails.

    Once again, you have to be clear about the “is” here. Is it the “is” of identity? Is it the “is” the cause of? Depending upon which you mean, you get different implications.

    The “is” of identity results in pantheism. There is no escape from this, unless there is distinction between God and everything other than God, and if there is a distinction, then there is no identity, because distinction implies difference.

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  32. The “is” the cause of implies both a distinction between God and creation, which is fine, and the fact that God shares a part of himself that creation participates in, which is not fine, because it is impossible for something absolutely simple to share a “part” of itself, because it has no parts at all. And that means that either the absolutely simple being shares all or none of himself. If he shares all of himself, then he is fully present and existing in the effect, which is impossible, because he is infinite and perfect and the effect is finite and imperfect. And if he cannot share all of himself, then he must share none of himself, which means that nothing other than God exists, which is also false.

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  33. Rank:

    It appears to me that esse commune is an abstraction of the totality of individual acts of existence--each individual actus essendi. God, then, is not the esse in esse-essence, which had been screwing me up. The esse in esse-essence is actus essendi, which is proper to particulars. The esse in esse-essence, then, is in one sense esse commune. God, however, is "ipse actus essendi subsistens". That is to say, he is not the act of existence for an essence, but actus essendi as such, without a separate referent. In other words, we may speak of God in the following way. All esse-essence compounds possess acts of existence, and we abstract these into a logical totality of esse. Because esse is simple when individualized, and because our logical concept of esse contains all perfections associated with particular instantiations of actus essendi, it is somewhat like God. However, this logical concept--esse commune--still does not really exist. Being is always the being of a being, and anything else is an abstraction.

    That’s close to my understanding of esse commune, as well. It does not exist in itself, and only exists within an ens, much like essence does not exist in itself, but only exists within an ens, either as a material being or within an immaterial intellect. Same thing with esse commune. It either exists within an esse-essence compound as an ens, or within an intellect as an abstraction. As Wippel writes: “Esse commune does not exist as such apart from individual existents, except in the order of thought” (Ibid., p. 121).

    Of course, this carries with it some problems, because if esse commune is distinct from essence, then what exactly is being abstracted by the intellect when it possess the idea of esse commune? In an ens, there is a compound of esse commune and an individual essence, which individualizes the esse commune into a particular ens. For the intellect to abstract “esse commune” from an ens would imply that “esse commune” has an essence that is abstracted. But how could that possibly work? After all, esse commune is shared by all ens as their act of existence, and thus it is a kind of universal.

    Does esse commune have an essence? Is it’s essence also to exist? Wippel writes that “esse commune also signifies the act principle (actus essendi) which is required for any concrete entity (ens) to be realized in actuality; but it signifies this act principle considered universally and in its fullness of perfection rather than as received in any given participant” (Ibid., p. 123), and that “Thomas notes that being (ens) participates in esse in the way something concrete participates in something abstract” (Ibid., p. 109). It thus seems that esse commune is an essence, i.e. a universal that is shared by a number of particulars, and that is how we can apprehend it with our intellect. Again, it is like the form of dog, which exists in matter as a dog or in an intellect as the idea of dogness. And just as the form of dog is the active principle of a material being versus the passive principle of matter, so the esse of ens is the active principle of a concrete entity and essence is the passive principle.

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  34. However, if esse commune has an essence, then is esse commune simple or compound? In other words, is esse commune such that its essence is to actually exist, or that its essence needs esse subsistens to exist? It cannot be the former, because then esse commune would be esse subsistens, which is impossible. It cannot be the latter, because then esse commune would be an ens! After all, an ens is just the compound of esse and essence. And if esse commune is not an ens, then what kind of esse-essence compound is it? And how can you add an esse-essence compound to an essence?

    But there is something very much like esse commune that does exist, and this is something that is not the totality of actus essendi, but is the possibility of that totality. This is ipse actus essendi subsistens--an actus essendi without a cause or a restricting essence. This is esse divinum. I had missed a key distinction in Aquinas's ontology. God is not the direct existence of every esse-essence compound--a more straight-up form of panentheism--but rather operates by an intermediary, in that every esse-essence compound has a unique actus essendi (esse) that is itself caused by God. Nonetheless, it may still be said that God gives and is the being of everything, although at an analogical interval.

    The question is the status of that “intermediary”, and what it means for that intermediary to participate in esse subsistens. In other words, how can esse commune participate in esse subsistens if esse subsistens has no parts due to its metaphysical simplicity? After all, what is participation other than part-icipation? As I mentioned above, it is impossible for a metaphysically simple being to be partially (or partly) X. It is either fully and totally X or not X at all. If X = presence in esse commune, then either esse subsistens is fully and totally present in esse commune, which would make them identical, or esse subsistens is not present in esse commune at all, which would make esse commune non-existent. So, it seems that you have either pantheism (God is everything) or … pantheism (God is everything, because God is the only thing).

    So, what is the result of this? It means that God is related to esse-essence compounds not directly, as their esse itself, but as something like the efficient cause of the entire compound, including the individual actus essendi. God, in other words, is even more transcendent than I'd realized. However, I would still describe Thomism as panentheistic, particularly because this label has been used for Eastern Orthodoxy, whose teachings are almost identical. And it remains true that God is immanent in everything, insofar as the cause always appears in the effect.

    First, you are close: “if a creature is said to participate in the divine esse, this is because a likeness or similitude of the divine is in some way produced in the creature” (Ibid., p. 117), and “a creature as participating by likeness or imitation in subsisting esse or God” (Ibid., p. 119). And what is this “likeness” or “similitude” or “imitation”? It means that a concrete entity’s “essence imitates its appropriate divine idea and depends upon it as its formal exemplar cause and because God, acting as efficient cause, has actually created it in accord with its divine idea together with its act of being in creating this individual being. According to Aquinas a divine idea is nothing but a given way in which God understands himself as capable of being imitated by a creature. Hence the essence of any existing creature is an expression of a particular way in which the divine idea can be imitated” (Ibid., p. 130).

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  35. Second, the cause does not always appear in the effect. Rather, something like the cause is present in the effect. “every cause produces something that is in some way like itself” (Ibid., p. 517). Again, there must be an X that is shared by both cause and effect in order for causality to occur at all. If that X is God, then God is fully present in the cause and fully present in the effect. How can God be fully present in esse commune, and thus in each concrete entity? After all, God is unlimited, infinite and perfect, and how can something unlimited, infinite and perfect be fully present in something limited, finite and imperfect?

    Third, as I mentioned in the Wippel quote, God is formal cause, efficient cause and final cause or each concrete entity, because the concrete entity’s essence is an idea in God, the concrete entity’s esse is given by God as efficient cause, and each concrete entity’s nature is to attain its final end, which is always about uniting with goodness, which is God as final cause. The problem with this account is divine simplicity, and its necessary all-or-nothing condition of God’s involvement in creation.

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  36. First, can you quote Aquinas regarding that definition of “simplicity”?

    http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_14.htm

    "For example, we may say that God is not an accident, in that He is distinguished from all accidents; then if we add that He is not a body, we shall further distinguish Him from some substances; and so in order by such negations He will be further distinguished from everything besides Himself; and then there will be a proper notion of His substance, when He shall be known as distinct from all. Still it will not be a perfect knowledge, because He will not be known for what He is in Himself."

    In other words, all rational knowledge of God is apophatic.

    http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_30.htm

    "And thus in every name that we utter, if we consider the mode of signification, there is found an imperfection that does not attach to God, although the thing signified may attach to God in some eminent way, as appears in the name 'goodness' and 'good.' 'Goodness' denotes something as not subsisting by itself: 'good,' something as concrete and composite. In this respect, then, no name befits God suitably except in respect of that which the name is imposed to signify. Such names therefore may be both affirmed and denied of God, affirmed on account of the meaning of the name, denied on account of the mode of signification. But the mode of supereminence, whereby the said perfections are found in God, cannot be signified by the names imposed by us, except either by negation, as when we call God 'eternal' or 'infinite,' or by reference or comparison of Him to other things, as when He is called the 'First Cause' or the 'Sovereign Good.' For we cannot take in (capere)* of God what He is, but what He is not, and how other beings stand related to Him."

    In other words, God is simultaneously described and not described.

    http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_29.htm

    "Thus also God gives to creatures all their perfections; and thereby He has with all creatures a likeness, and an unlikeness at the same time. For this point of likeness, however, it is more proper to say that the creature is like God than that God is like the creature. For that is said to be like a thing, which possesses its quality or form. Since then that which is found to perfection in God is found in other beings by some manner of imperfect participation, the said point of likeness belongs to God absolutely, but not so to the creature. And thus the creature has what belongs to God, and is rightly said to be like to God: but it cannot be said that God has what belongs to the creature, nor is it fitting to say that God is like the creature; as we do not say that a man is like his picture, and yet his picture is rightly pronounced to be like him."

    In other words, God is simultaneously everywhere as the perfection of participants, and nowhere wholly "present" to us.

    http://www2.nd.edu/Departments/Maritain/etext/gc1_43.htm

    "Every actuality inhering in another takes limitation from that wherein it is: for what is in another is therein according to the measure of the recipient. An actuality therefore that is in none, is bounded by none: thus, if whiteness were self-existent, the perfection of whiteness in it would have no bounds till it attained all the perfection of whiteness that is attainable. But God is an actuality in no way existent in another: He is not a form inherent in matter; nor does His being inhere in any form or nature; since He is His own being, His own existence (Chap. XXI). The conclusion is that He is infinite."

    God is in no way restrained, and for this reason is infinite.

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  37. Second, I really enjoyed your paragraph, but it made no sense to me, given divine simplicity. If God is everywhere, somewhere, or nowhere, then he is fully and totally everywhere, somewhere, or nowhere.

    You really don't seem to have a firm grasp of divine simplicity. God is always already within and beyond every border. The borders, for him, do not even exist. They are a product of our own minds. That's what it means to be simple in the way that God is simple: to be utterly unrestricted by any border, because he is already the source of the borders themselves.

    I make no claims to be familiar or an expect on this subject matter. Perhaps you can quote Augustine on this doctrine, and Aquinas, as well? But I’ll just make the aside that Aquinas also called Aristotle “the Philosopher”, and yet he differed from him in a number of important respects.

    Augustine:

    "If souls please you, they are being loved in God; for they also are mutable and acquire stability by being established in him. Otherwise they go their way and perish. In him therefore they are loved[. ...] For he did not create and then depart; the things derived from him have their being in him. Look where he is--wherever there is a taste for truth. [...] The good which you love is from him. But it is only as it is related to him that it is good and sweet."

    "I entered and with my soul's eye, such as it was, saw above that same eye of my soul the immutable light higher than my mind--not the light of every day, obvious to anyone, nor a larger version of the same kind which would, as it were, have given out a much brighter light and filled everything with its magnitude. It was not that light, but a different thing, utterly different from all our kinds of light. It transcended my mind, not in the way that oil floats on water, nor as heaven is above earth. It was superior because it made me, and I was inferior because I was made by it. The person who knows the truth knows it, and he who knows it knows eternity."

    "Therefore we said: If to anyone the tumult of the flesh has fallen silent, if the images of earth, water, and air are quiescent, if the heavens themselves are shut out and the very soul itself is making no sound and is surpassing itself by no longer thinking about itself, if all dreams and visions in the imagination are excluded, if all language and every sign and everything transitory is silent--for if anyone could hear them, this is what all of them would be saying, "We did not make ourselves, we were made by him who abides for eternity" (Ps. 79: 3, 5)--if after this declaration they were to keep silence, having directed our ears to him that made them, then he alone would speak not through them but through himself. We would hear his word, not through the tongue of the flesh, nor through the voice of an angel, nor through the sound of thunder, nor through the obscurity of a symbolic utterance. Him who in these things we love we would hear in person without their mediation."

    In other words, God is simultaneously in all things and beyond them: present everywhere and yet nowhere. This is not to say that God is both "inside the border" and "outside the border", because there is no border at all. Anything that exists participates; he subsists.

    Fourth, what exactly did Duns Scotus do that was so terrible for Christian theology?

    Denied apophatic theology, instated univocal predication, created voluntarism, endorsed divine command theory, undermined natural law and set the foundation for nominalism, among other things.

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  38. First, God is not everything. God is not creation, because God’s essence is identical to esse, and creation’s essence is not identical to esse, and thus they cannot possibly be identical, because they differ in key properties. So, I do not know what you mean when you say that “God is everything”. I can promise you that Aquinas disagrees with you in that there is a clear distinction between the simple God and the composite creation.

    God is present as the cause of every individual actus essendi and the source of every essence, and the unknowable exemplar of both. He is present in everything because he is the cause of it. There is no clear distinction between creation and God in one sense, because everything in creation already contains God's being by participation (divine esse -> actus essendi -> substance). To paraphrase Augustine, it's a matter of speaker and that which is spoken: they are different in kind, but one results in the other, and the first can be inferred from the second. A closer analogy may be drawn, though. God is not a speaker but is the "eternally spoken", and the nature of the eternally spoken is somewhat knowable by its relation to that which is not eternally spoken, because that which is not eternally spoken still derives from it and so is recognizable as a less complete version.

    If you eliminate containment, boundaries, an inside/outside distinction, then you destroy the very account of knowledge that Aquinas has developed. If God has no containment or boundaries, then God has no knowledge.

    This is a misrepresentation of Aquinas's views. Knowledge is not containment, but the conjoinment of a certain external truth (being) and the intellect. You've projected Kantian post-modernism on to him--he didn't view knowledge in that way. Now, God is both the cause and being of every "external truth" and his own "intellect", and so he would know everything simply by existing. Further, he knows his own essence primarily, since he is identical with his own essence, and through this he sees all things. Knowledge is not possession but conformity, which is why Aquinas says that forms are literally instantiated in the intellect: the intellect conforms to them. This is how something is said to be understood or contemplated.

    Third, I would apply the same analysis to this idea as to analogy. Either God is the same as creation, similar to creation, or different from creation. If he is the same as creation, i.e. “God is everything”, then you have pantheism. If he similar to creation, then he must be partly the same and partly different from creation. However, this is impossible, because of divine simplicity. There is no such thing as God being “partly” anything. If he is different from creation, then they share nothing in common, including being, and thus creation cannot exist.

    After further reading, I've decided that your definition of analogy simply begs the question. What's at issue is the way in which God is analogous to creatures, and simply defining analogy ahead of time by assertion does not work. The relationship between God and creation is knowable because of the relationship between cause and effect: the effect is less perfect than the cause, but, by necessity, the effect bears a likeness to the cause.

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#29
    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles2.htm#11
    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles2.htm#12
    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles2.htm#13
    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdePotentia.htm#3:3

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  39. Rank:

    Because this thread is getting a little out of control, I’m just going to focus upon what I consider to be the salient points. Apologies, if I skip over something that you think is important. If I have, then please direct my attention, and I will respond properly.

    "Thus also God gives to creatures all their perfections; and thereby He has with all creatures a likeness, and an unlikeness at the same time. For this point of likeness, however, it is more proper to say that the creature is like God than that God is like the creature. For that is said to be like a thing, which possesses its quality or form. Since then that which is found to perfection in God is found in other beings by some manner of imperfect participation, the said point of likeness belongs to God absolutely, but not so to the creature. And thus the creature has what belongs to God, and is rightly said to be like to God: but it cannot be said that God has what belongs to the creature, nor is it fitting to say that God is like the creature; as we do not say that a man is like his picture, and yet his picture is rightly pronounced to be like him."

    The question, as always, is what exactly this “said point of likeness” is supposed to be. According to this passage, if X is like Y, then Y must possess X’s “quality or form”. In other words, X and Y must both share a common “quality or form”. So, how does this apply between God and creation? Well, there are only two ways that I can make sense of this. Either (1) God and creation both share a common form in the sense of a divine idea that is then actualized in reality (e.g. the form of “dog” is present in both the divine intellect and a material dog), or (2) God and creation both share the divine essence. I think that we will both agree that (2) is impossible, and so let us focus upon (1).

    The only way for (1) to make sense is to first make sense of the idea that a metaphysically simple being has a diversity of ideas/forms. My contention is that this is impossible. To have multiple forms is necessarily to be able to distinguish between them, i.e. form A is not form B, and so on. Negation is a necessarily part of multiplicity, and thus there must be negation within a metaphysically simple being. But this is impossible, because negation involves non-being, either absolute or relative, and a metaphysically simple being is necessarily Pure Act with no non-being of any kind within it. Therefore, if non-being is impossible to associate with God, then negation is impossible to associate with God, and then diversity is impossible to associate with God. And without diversity, then you cannot have diverse forms. So, it is impossible for God to have a diversity of forms and still remain metaphysically simple, because diversity implies composition.

    So, neither (1) nor (2) is possible to account for the underlying “likeness” that grounds the entirety of Thomist theology.

    You really don't seem to have a firm grasp of divine simplicity. God is always already within and beyond every border. The borders, for him, do not even exist. They are a product of our own minds. That's what it means to be simple in the way that God is simple: to be utterly unrestricted by any border, because he is already the source of the borders themselves.

    Divine simplicity is absolute non-composition. Full stop. A number of other divine properties follow from divine simplicity, which is why it is a central component of Thomist theology. However, to say that “simplicity” just means “to be utterly unrestricted by any border” is just false. Find me a single Aquinas quote where he says anything like this. It certainly isn’t present in his discussion of simplicity in ST.

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  40. In other words, God is simultaneously in all things and beyond them: present everywhere and yet nowhere. This is not to say that God is both "inside the border" and "outside the border", because there is no border at all. Anything that exists participates; he subsists.

    It is exactly the nature of this participation that is the issue. It seems necessary for participation that God be composite, because some part of him must be present in both himself and in creation, and yet this is impossible.

    God is present as the cause of every individual actus essendi and the source of every essence, and the unknowable exemplar of both.

    The issue is how this account squares with the principle of proportionate causality. If God causes creation, then both God and creation must share something in common. This would have to be either the divine essence, which is impossible due to divine simplicity, or the divine ideas, which is also impossible due to divine simplicity.

    He is present in everything because he is the cause of it.

    Again, the cause is not present in the effect, but a likeness of the cause is present in the effect. The status of this “likeness” is where the problems lie.

    There is no clear distinction between creation and God in one sense, because everything in creation already contains God's being by participation (divine esse -> actus essendi -> substance).

    But there is a distinction, because God is simple and creation is composite, and only composite entities can participate whereas a simple entity subsists. That is a pretty clear distinction. Just because composite entities depend upon a simple entity for their existence does not obliterate all distinctions between the two. That would be like saying that since a hand that is holding a stick that is pushing a ball is always there, then there is no distinction between the hand, the stick and the ball. That makes absolutely no sense.

    To paraphrase Augustine, it's a matter of speaker and that which is spoken: they are different in kind, but one results in the other, and the first can be inferred from the second.

    The problem with that account is that we have a clear and univocal understanding of “speaker” and “that which is spoken”, and thus understand the relationship between the two.

    A closer analogy may be drawn, though. God is not a speaker but is the "eternally spoken", and the nature of the eternally spoken is somewhat knowable by its relation to that which is not eternally spoken, because that which is not eternally spoken still derives from it and so is recognizable as a less complete version.

    I’m not following. I do not understand what “eternally spoken” can possibly mean without an “eternal speaker”. And “that which is not eternally spoken” is a pretty wide class, which includes snakes, rocks, clouds, and basically everything other than God. Are you saying that you can understand “eternally spoken” by understanding a rock? How does a rock help you understand speech at all?

    This is a misrepresentation of Aquinas's views. Knowledge is not containment, but the conjoinment of a certain external truth (being) and the intellect.

    First, what does “conjoinment” mean?

    Second, Aquinas says that knowledge is about the possession of forms without becoming what the forms are about. Those forms are not outside the intellect like an appendage, which is what “conjoined” would mean. They are within the intellect. In fact, the active intellect acts upon phantasms to abstract the intellectual species, or quiddity, from the sensible species within the phantasms, and then those abstracted quiddities are then stored within the potential intellect. As Stump writes: “When the agent intellect has accomplished the abstraction, it delivers the intelligible species to the potential intellect, which receives and preserves the form” (Aquinas, p. 265). As you can see, the whole account is one of extraction from without and then storage from within.

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  41. You've projected Kantian post-modernism on to him--he didn't view knowledge in that way.

    I’ve quoted Aquinas scholars, such as Davies and Stump, to justify my position. And here’s Aquinas himself: “The thing understood is in the intellect by its own likeness” (ST 1a.85.2), and “The likeness of a thing is received into the intellect according to the mode of the intellect, not according to the mode of the thing” (ST 1a.85.5).

    Knowledge is not possession but conformity, which is why Aquinas says that forms are literally instantiated in the intellect: the intellect conforms to them. This is how something is said to be understood or contemplated.

    Whether you want to call it “possession” or “conformity”, the point is that it occurs within the intellect. And once it occurs within the intellect, there is the presence of a form within the intellect, and that is what knowledge is. If there is a situation in which it is impossible for a form to be present within an intellect, then it is impossible for there to be knowledge in that situation. And if it is impossible for God to have forms within his intellect, because there is no sense to “within his intellect”, except analogously, whatever that means, then it is impossible to say that God has knowledge. Maybe he has “knowledge”, but we have no idea what that is. We should just say that God’s X Y’s Z’s to M N. That is apophatic theology! Using words like “knowledge” and “intellect” presuppose a commonality between “knowledge”/knowledge and “intellect”/intellect that simply is impossible, and thus variables should be used that would truly respect his utter transcendence.

    After further reading, I've decided that your definition of analogy simply begs the question. What's at issue is the way in which God is analogous to creatures, and simply defining analogy ahead of time by assertion does not work. The relationship between God and creation is knowable because of the relationship between cause and effect: the effect is less perfect than the cause, but, by necessity, the effect bears a likeness to the cause.

    The relationship between God and creatures is characterized by “likeness”, “similitude” and “imitation”. The common underlying factor in each of these characterizations is similarity. Similarity is between total identity and total difference, and is characterized by partial identity and partial difference. In other words, X is similar to Y iff X and Y have some properties the same, and X and Y have other properties that are different. Furthermore, this is what is supposed to support analogy as between equivocation (i.e. total difference) and univocality (i.e. total identity). So, to say that X is like Y is not to say that X is identical to Y in all respects, and it is not to say that X and Y are totally different in all respects. It means that they are identical in some respects and different in some respects.

    Feel free to offer another account of “likeness” that is not parasitic upon similarity as partial identity and partial difference. Personally, I don’t think it’s possible. What you have is only three logical possibilities:

    (1) X and Y have all properties in common
    (2) X and Y have some properties in common
    (3) X and Y have no properties in common

    “Likeness” must be either (1), (2), or (3). It cannot be (1), because that would not be “likeness”, but “total identity”, which would mean that God and creatures are identical, which is impossible. It cannot be (3), because that would not be “likeness”, but “total difference”, which would mean that God and creatures share nothing in common, which is impossible, because they are supposed to share forms in common, at the least. Therefore, by a process of elimination, “likeness” must be (2), and that is the interpretation and account that I have been using.

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  42. The question, as always, is what exactly this “said point of likeness” is supposed to be. According to this passage, if X is like Y, then Y must possess X’s “quality or form”. In other words, X and Y must both share a common “quality or form”.

    You've utterly misread it. Aquinas is thinking in terms of the four elements. Fire, for instance, was thought to be a pure element, and fiery things imperfectly participated in it. They were said to be "related" to the maximum in that they were fiery to a certain extent, even though they did not possess the fullness of elemental fire in themselves; because then they would be the total fullness of fire. In this sense they are said to been "like" fire. Consider: if I say that something is good, then I presuppose a standard. Likewise, if I say that something has being in this way or that way, then I presuppose a standard. This is analogous to the relationship between God and creation. The likeness is not "something identical and something different", and your insistence that this must be the case just begs the question, on top of being a historical non sequitur. The likeness is the one between a cause and its effect--and the maximum and the lesser, as with the elements.

    The only way for (1) to make sense is to first make sense of the idea that a metaphysically simple being has a diversity of ideas/forms. My contention is that this is impossible.

    How the divine mind can comprehend many forms:

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#51
    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#53

    How the divine essence is the proper standard for all forms:

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#54

    Divine simplicity is absolute non-composition. Full stop. A number of other divine properties follow from divine simplicity, which is why it is a central component of Thomist theology. However, to say that “simplicity” just means “to be utterly unrestricted by any border” is just false. Find me a single Aquinas quote where he says anything like this. It certainly isn’t present in his discussion of simplicity in ST.

    I already provided such a quote. Here are more.

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdePotentia.htm#1:2

    "Wherefore it is clear that God is infinite: and this can be made evident as follows: The being of man is limited to the species of man, because it is received into the nature of the human species: the same applies to the being of a horse, or of any other creature. But the being of God, since it is not received into anything, but is pure being, is not limited to any particular mode of a perfection of being, but contains all being within itself: and thus as being taken in its widest sense can extend to an infinity of things, so the divine being is infinite: and hence it is clear that his might or active power is infinite."

    Because the divine being is not limited by an essence, it is not subject to any limitation, and for this reason it is infinite. But that his not being is within a separate essence or being part of the ten categories just is what simplicity means.

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  43. http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#43

    "We must therefore show that God is infinite according to the mode of this sort of magnitude. The infinite here will not be taken in the sense of privation, as in the case of dimensive or numerical quantity. For this quantity is of a nature to have a limit, so that such things are called infinites according as there is removed from them the limits they have by nature; which means that in their case the infinite designates an imperfection. But in God the infinite is understood only in a negative way, because there is no terminus or limit to His perfection: He is supremely perfect. It is thus that the infinite ought to be attributed to God."

    Because God's perfection is not the perfection of a being--because it is not received into a substance, nor is it subject to the ten categories--it must be infinite due to its lack of restrictions. Again, not being part of the ten categories, nor being a substance, nor being an essence-esse compound just is simplicity. Thus, simplicity is his lack of any restriction or border, which also results in his infinity.

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#43

    "Again, every act inhering in another is terminated by that in which it inheres, since what is in another is in it according to the mode of the receiver. Hence, an act that exists in nothing is terminated by nothing. Thus, if whiteness were self-existing, the perfection of whiteness in it would not be terminated so as not to have whatever can be had of the perfection of whiteness. But God is act in no way existing in another, for neither is He a form in matter, as we have proved, nor does His being inhere in some form or nature, since He is His own being, as was proved above. It remains, then, that God is infinite."

    God's act is not opposed to anything, and so is infinite. That God's act is not opposed to anything is what it means to be simple, since to be opposed to something is to be part of the ten categories, etc.

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1007.htm#article1

    "We must consider therefore that a thing is called infinite because it is not finite. Now matter is in a way made finite by form, and the form by matter. Matter indeed is made finite by form, inasmuch as matter, before it receives its form, is in potentiality to many forms; but on receiving a form, it is terminated by that one. Again, form is made finite by matter, inasmuch as form, considered in itself, is common to many; but when received in matter, the form is determined to this one particular thing. Now matter is perfected by the form by which it is made finite; therefore infinite as attributed to matter, has the nature of something imperfect; for it is as it were formless matter. On the other hand, form is not made perfect by matter, but rather is contracted by matter; and hence the infinite, regarded on the part of the form not determined by matter, has the nature of something perfect. Now being is the most formal of all things, as appears from what is shown above (4, 1, Objection 3). Since therefore the divine being is not a being received in anything, but He is His own subsistent being as was shown above (Question 3, Article 4), it is clear that God Himself is infinite and perfect."

    Again: no restrictions, therefore he must be infinite. But to say that he is infinite is merely to say that he is not finite: negative infinity. Both his simplicity and his infinity are from the same principle, and both are understood negatively.

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  44. Also,

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#18

    "Again, in every genus the simpler a being, the more noble it is: e.g., in the genus of the hot, Ere, which has no admixture of cold. That, therefore, which is at the peak of nobility among all beings must be at the peak of simplicity. But the being that is at the peak of nobility among all beings we call God, since He is the first cause. For a cause is nobler than an effect. God can, therefore, have no composition."

    God's simplicity is necessitated by his place as the "highest esse" from which others, in a sense, derive. So his perfection, his simplicity and his infinity are all the same concept, for the same reason: a lack of restriction. See:

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles1.htm#28

    "For a thing is said to be more or less excellent according as its being is limited to a certain greater or lesser mode of excellence. Therefore, if there is something to which the whole power of being belongs, it can lack no excellence that is proper to some thing. But for a thing that is its own being it is proper to be according to the whole power of being. For example, if there were a separately existing whiteness, it could not lack any of the power of whiteness. For a given white thing lacks something of the power of whiteness through a defect in the receiver of the whiteness, which receives it according to its mode and perhaps not according to the whole power of whiteness. God, therefore, Who is His being, as we have proved above, has being according to the whole power of being itself. Hence, He cannot lack any excellence that belongs to any given thing."

    Because the being of God is not restricted by entry into a separately existing essence, it cannot be anything but totally perfect. This, again, is identical to the reason for God's infinity. Further, it is the very definition of his simplicity.

    I'm going to respond to your other points soon. Don't bother responding to these just yet--we'll only clutter the discussion again.

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  45. It is exactly the nature of this participation that is the issue. It seems necessary for participation that God be composite, because some part of him must be present in both himself and in creation, and yet this is impossible.

    Aquinas tackles that in several places. A few selections:

    "Effects that fall short of their causes do not agree with them in name and nature. Yet, some likeness must be found between them, since it belongs to the nature of action that an agent produce its like, since each thing acts according as it is in act. The form of an effect, therefore, is certainly found in some measure in a transcending cause, but according to another mode and another way. For this reason the cause is called an equivocal cause. Thus, the sun causes heat among these sublunary bodies by acting according as it is in act. Hence, the heat generated by the sun must bear some likeness to the active power of the sun, through which beat is caused in this sublunary world; and because of this beat the sun is said to be hot, even though not in one and the same way. And so the sun is said to be somewhat like those things in which it produces its effects as an efficient cause. Yet the sun is also unlike all these things in so far as such effects do not possess heat and the like in the same way as they are found in the sun. So, too, God gave things all their perfections and thereby is both like and unlike all of them."

    "We have said that all the perfections found in other things are attributed to God in the same way as effects are found in their equivocal causes. These effects are in their causes virtually, as heat is in the sun. For, unless the power of the sun belonged to some extent to the genus of heat, the sun acting through this power would not generate anything like itself. The sun, then, is said to be hot through this power not only because it produces heat, but also because the power through which it does this has some likeness to heat. But through the same power through which it produces heat, the sun produces also many other effects among sublunary bodies-for example, dryness. And thus heat and dryness, which in fire are diverse qualities, belong to the sun through one and the same power. So, too, the perfections of all things, which belong to the rest of things through diverse forms, must be attributed to God through one and the same power in Him. This power is nothing other than His essence, since, as we have proved, there can be no accident in God. Thus, therefore, God is called wise not only in so far as He produces wisdom, but also because, in so far as we are wise, we imitate to some extent the power by which He makes us wise. On the other hand, God is not called a stone, even though He has made stones, because in the name stone there is understood a determinate mode of being according to which a stone is distinguished from God. But the stone imitates God as its cause in being and goodness, and other such characteristics, as do also the rest of creatures."

    "Thus, the power to heal, which is found in all health-giving things, is by nature prior to the health that is in the animal, as a cause is prior to an effect; but because we know this healing power through an effect, we likewise name it from its effect. Hence it is that the health-giving is prior in reality, but animal is by priority called healthy according to the meaning of the name."

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  46. The above are from the contra Gentiles. Here's one from De potentia.

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdePotentia.htm#3:3

    "We must accordingly say that creation may be taken actively or passively. Taken actively it denotes the act of God, which is his essence, together with a relation to the creature: and this is not a real but only a logical relation. But taken passively, since, as we have already said, it is not properly speaking a change, it must be said to belong, not to the genus of passion, but to that of relation. This is proved as follows. In every real change and movement there is a twofold process. One is from one term of movement to the other, for instance from whiteness to blackness: the other is from the agent to the patient, for instance from the maker to the thing made. These processes however differ from each other while the movement is in progress, and when the term has been reached. While the movement is in progress, the thing moved is receding from one term and approaching the other: which does not apply when the term has been reached: as may be seen in that which is moved from whiteness to blackness, for at the term of the movement it no longer approaches to blackness, but begins to be black. Likewise while it is in movement the patient or the thing made is being changed by the agent: but when it is at the term of the movement, it is no longer being changed by the agent: but acquires a certain relation to the agent, inasmuch as it has its being therefrom, and is in some way like unto it: thus at the term of human generation the offspring acquires sonship. Now creation, as stated above (A. 2), cannot be taken for a movement of the creature previous to its reaching the term of movement, but denotes the accomplished fact. Wherefore creation does not denote an approach to being, nor a change effected by the Creator, but merely a beginning of existence, and a relation to the Creator from whom the creature receives its being. Consequently creation is really nothing but a relation of the creature to the Creator together with a beginning of existence."

    Again, don't respond yet--I'm still working on replying.

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  47. The summary of that last batch might be as follows. The relationship between God and creation is one-way, insofar as it is a real relation (one of the ten categories) from us to the "principle of being", but only a logical one between the "principle of being" and us. In this way, it may be said that God causes creation while remaining non-composite, because he only relates to creation in a logical way.

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  48. The issue is how this account squares with the principle of proportionate causality. If God causes creation, then both God and creation must share something in common. This would have to be either the divine essence, which is impossible due to divine simplicity, or the divine ideas, which is also impossible due to divine simplicity.

    Prof. Feser has an excellent new post on the divine ideas that I recommend. It helped me understand a lot that I'd never known before. As for the divine essence, this is connected to every individual actus essendi (and to the totality of esse commune) in the way that whiteness is connected to white things: by way of equivocal causation, analogy, logical relations and one-way attribution. Aquinas spells out the details in the above quotes.

    Again, the cause is not present in the effect, but a likeness of the cause is present in the effect. The status of this “likeness” is where the problems lie.

    A likeness is not present in the effect: the effect is the likeness. You've gotten confused because of your definition of analogy: one thing the same, one thing different. It would be logical to suggest, from this, that the effect would have to "contain" a likeness. But Aquinas does not subscribe to this definition, and so the objection fails.

    But there is a distinction, because God is simple and creation is composite, and only composite entities can participate whereas a simple entity subsists. That is a pretty clear distinction. Just because composite entities depend upon a simple entity for their existence does not obliterate all distinctions between the two.

    I know. This is why I said "in one sense"--in another sense, there is a clear distinction between the two.

    I’m not following. I do not understand what “eternally spoken” can possibly mean without an “eternal speaker”. And “that which is not eternally spoken” is a pretty wide class, which includes snakes, rocks, clouds, and basically everything other than God. Are you saying that you can understand “eternally spoken” by understanding a rock? How does a rock help you understand speech at all?

    Yes, you can understand the eternally spoken by understanding a rock. Aquinas affirms that a rock is like God in the above quotes--and I've seen certain Thomists on this very blog (Prof. Feser himself?) say that Aquinas knows God by analyzing a stone.

    Also, the idea that you cannot understand the "eternally spoken" without a speaker is the point, which is why it's a better analogy than the earlier one. God is spoken but there is no speaker: ipse actus essendi subsistens, an act of being without a limiting mode of being; a spoken word without a limiting mode of being-spoken. It's like a spoken word that speaks other words without being identifiable with them, which is present in every word as its cause and yet utterly absent from it. If this sounds strange, it's because the God of Aquinas is strange. If it sounds like differance, that's because Derrida and Aquinas built from similar sources. If it sounds like Eckhart, that's because Eckhart sounds like Dionysius.

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  49. As you can see, the whole account is one of extraction from without and then storage from within.

    This, again, projects a modern sensibility. You and I know the same details, but you've read into them what is not there. The intellect does not "extract" things from without in the way that you mean. The forms are there every step of the way, from the exterior entity-being-sensed to the "representations", so to speak, that are caused by sense. The intellect only "extracts" in the sense that it unites with the form that was the same throughout the journey: it conforms to it. This is all knowledge is: a conformity of the intellect with a principle. Now, these forms are "stored" in that the intellect retains them (in intellectual memory?), but all this means is that the forms that exist all around us come also to exist in the intellect. But God is and knows his own essence: his entire being is conformed to his essence, and his essence to his being, and his intellect and essence and being together. So it is that God knows himself without "meta-knowledge"--a concept that is, to expand on Prof. Feser's new post, an ancient Cartesian zombie, run through Kant.

    The relationship between God and creatures is characterized by “likeness”, “similitude” and “imitation”. The common underlying factor in each of these characterizations is similarity. Similarity is between total identity and total difference, and is characterized by partial identity and partial difference.

    This, again, is false. Aquinas does not buy this definition, as the large quotes above should illustrate. His understanding of analogy is quite different.

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  50. A correction of gibberish above:

    "But that his not being is within a separate essence or being part of the ten categories just is what simplicity means."

    "But his not being within a separate essence and not being part of the ten categories just is what simplicity means."

    Apologies

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  51. Rank:

    You've utterly misread it. Aquinas is thinking in terms of the four elements. Fire, for instance, was thought to be a pure element, and fiery things imperfectly participated in it. They were said to be "related" to the maximum in that they were fiery to a certain extent, even though they did not possess the fullness of elemental fire in themselves; because then they would be the total fullness of fire. In this sense they are said to been "like" fire.

    What can I tell you? Here’s Wippel on the same passage: “he concludes that the form of an effect must be presesnt in some fashion in a cause which surpasses it in perfection (an equivocal cause), but according to another mode and with another intelligible content” (Ibid., p. 517). And furthermore, “even with respect to pure perfections, does such reasoning justify our concluding that there is something intrinsically and formally present in God which the produced effects resemble? Thomas believes that this is so, although he will admit that any name signifying such a perfection can be applied to God only analogically, not univocally or equivocally” (Ibid., p. 518).

    Consider: if I say that something is good, then I presuppose a standard. Likewise, if I say that something has being in this way or that way, then I presuppose a standard. This is analogous to the relationship between God and creation. The likeness is not "something identical and something different", and your insistence that this must be the case just begs the question, on top of being a historical non sequitur. The likeness is the one between a cause and its effect--and the maximum and the lesser, as with the elements.

    First, we are talking about “likeness”, which is a relationship between two things, X and Y. We are trying to understand what it means to say that X is like Y. Furthermore, we are focusing upon the situation in which X causes Y, because under Thomist principles, if X causes Y, then Y is like X, (and I would add, X is like Y, but this could be debatable when X = God and Y = creation) and the question is how. It seems pretty clear to me that Y is like X, because X and Y both share a common form, but they also differ in a number of other respects. If they shared the same form, and did not differ in any respect, then they would be identical. And that fits into my analysis of similarity and analogy.

    Second, even taking your analogy of a standard of goodness, to say that X is good according to standard S necessarily means that the form of goodness must be present both in X and in S. And if you want to say that X is like S, then that means that they are both partially identical (i.e. they both share the form of goodness) and partially different (i.e. X is a thing and S is a standard, and thus they have different properties).

    Third, even to say that there is a difference in degree, i.e. “the maximum and the lesser”, is to necessarily imply that X is more P than Y, and Y is less P than X. Again, X and Y still share P, but differ in how much P they have.

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  52. How the divine mind can comprehend many forms

    Here’s the grand conclusion to those sections: “the exemplars of things are a plurality in the divine mind”. There is no explanation of how a metaphysically simple being can have a “plurality” of forms in itself and still remain without any composition. That is the problem, and the sections that you cited in SCT do not solve it. In fact, they just exacerbate the issue, because they agree that there is “a plurality” within the divine intellect, and yet “plurality presupposes division” (Wippel, p. 183). So, how can you have division in a being that has no composition”?

    Because the divine being is not limited by an essence, it is not subject to any limitation, and for this reason it is infinite. But that his not being is within a separate essence or being part of the ten categories just is what simplicity means.

    I’m not too sure that the argument even works here. I mean, given a being with metaphysical simplicity, you have the situation where that being’s essence is its esse, and thus there is no distinction between essence and esse in a metaphysically simple being. Given the lack of composition of esse and essence in such a being, you can say that it is not limited as an ens is by essence as the receiving and delimiting principle of the given esse. How do you infer from not being limited in this one way to being unlimited in every way? Does it follow from the lack of this particular kind of composition that it is not limited by matter? Not limited by accidents?

    Because God's perfection is not the perfection of a being--because it is not received into a substance, nor is it subject to the ten categories--it must be infinite due to its lack of restrictions. Again, not being part of the ten categories, nor being a substance, nor being an essence-esse compound just is simplicity. Thus, simplicity is his lack of any restriction or border, which also results in his infinity.

    I think we are just arguing semantics. I agree that infinity follows from simplicity. I just don’t think that infinity is part of the definition of “simplicity”. The definition of simplicity is just the absolute lack of composition or parts of any kind. It follows from this with additional assumptions and arguments that such a metaphysically simple being is infinite.

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  53. "Effects that fall short of their causes do not agree with them in name and nature. Yet, some likeness must be found between them, since it belongs to the nature of action that an agent produce its like, since each thing acts according as it is in act. The form of an effect, therefore, is certainly found in some measure in a transcending cause, but according to another mode and another way. For this reason the cause is called an equivocal cause. Thus, the sun causes heat among these sublunary bodies by acting according as it is in act. Hence, the heat generated by the sun must bear some likeness to the active power of the sun, through which beat is caused in this sublunary world; and because of this beat the sun is said to be hot, even though not in one and the same way. And so the sun is said to be somewhat like those things in which it produces its effects as an efficient cause. Yet the sun is also unlike all these things in so far as such effects do not possess heat and the like in the same way as they are found in the sun. So, too, God gave things all their perfections and thereby is both like and unlike all of them."

    This passage just confirms what I wrote above.

    The likeness between cause and effect is due to the shared and common form between them, which differs in its mode of existence. So, a dog can be said to cause our idea of “dog”, because the form of “dog” is common in both the material dog and the immaterial intellect, but it differs in that in the material dog, the form’s mode of existence is as form-in-a-material-dog, and in the intellect, the form’s mode of existence is as form-in-an-immaterial-intellect.

    Again, the principle of proportionate causality basically says that: if X causes Y, then (1) X must have F, (2) X must give F to Y, (3) Y must receive F from X, and (4) Y must have F. After all, X cannot give to Y what X does not already have. There is a transmission of F in X to F in Y. That is causation in Thomism.

    The other passages basically just reiterate this same idea, but in different ways. So, I don’t think that those passages actually help your case. The bottom line is that there is a problem with the idea that God causes creation if it is understood in the Thomist framework, because God is simple, and thus has only one thing to give, himself in his infinite completeness. And yet, it is impossible for him to give himself in his infinite completeness to anything, because it would completely surpass and overwhelm anything else by virtue of his infinite perfection. So, if God cannot give himself in his infinite completeness, then he cannot give anything at all, because he does not have anything else to give, assuming his metaphysical simplicity. He is all-or-nothing, and does not admit of degrees or parts or composition, which is necessary for any kind of participation, especially amongst diverse beings.

    The summary of that last batch might be as follows. The relationship between God and creation is one-way, insofar as it is a real relation (one of the ten categories) from us to the "principle of being", but only a logical one between the "principle of being" and us. In this way, it may be said that God causes creation while remaining non-composite, because he only relates to creation in a logical way.

    I don’t understand what you are saying here.

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  54. Prof. Feser has an excellent new post on the divine ideas that I recommend. It helped me understand a lot that I'd never known before. As for the divine essence, this is connected to every individual actus essendi (and to the totality of esse commune) in the way that whiteness is connected to white things: by way of equivocal causation, analogy, logical relations and one-way attribution. Aquinas spells out the details in the above quotes.

    Here’s the money paragraph:

    “To be sure, given divine simplicity, they cannot exist in Him in exactly the way forms exist in our intellects. But how, then, are we to understand the ideas in the divine intellect? For A-T, anything other than God that exists or might exist is an imitation of God. In creation, that which is unlimited and perfect in God comes to exist in a limited and imperfect way in the natural order. (Recall the doctrine of divine simplicity, as Thomists understand it: Attributes that are distinct in us are analogous to what in God is one.) The divine ideas according to which God creates are therefore to be understood as the divine intellect’s grasp of the diverse ways in which the divine essence -- which is one, unlimited, and perfect -- might be imitated in a limited and imperfect fashion by created things.”

    This just tries to paper over the problem.

    On the one hand, God is metaphysically simple, and thus cannot possible consist of any kind of diversity, distinction, and difference, because all of them consist of composition of some kind. After all, to be diverse, distinct or different necessarily involves at least two things (i.e. parts or components) that are distinguished by their differentiating features, none of which is possible in a metaphysically simple being, such as God.

    On the other hand, God must have divine ideas as exemplars that created entities are supposed share a “likeness”, or “similitude”, or “imitation” to. Otherwise, the entire Thomist framework to explain the natural world falls apart, because clearly there are different natures/essences/forms within the diversity of creation, and these different natures/essences/forms must be present in the divine intellect, which is their source and cause.

    There is no resolution of this contradiction. The two positions are just repeated as if they magically resolve the issue, but they do not. Honestly, how does a metaphysically simple being, which cannot possible consist of any multiplicity or diversity, contain multiple and diverse forms, without itself becoming a composite being? After all, it contains multiplicity, and thus composition. It is impossible.

    A likeness is not present in the effect: the effect is the likeness. You've gotten confused because of your definition of analogy: one thing the same, one thing different. It would be logical to suggest, from this, that the effect would have to "contain" a likeness. But Aquinas does not subscribe to this definition, and so the objection fails.

    What do you mean by “likeness”? I have laid my cards on the table. For me, “likeness” occurs when you have X and Y, and X has something in common with Y, i.e. X has neither everything nor nothing in common with Y. What do you mean?

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  55. I know. This is why I said "in one sense"--in another sense, there is a clear distinction between the two.

    But even in your “one sense”, you are wrong. Recall what you wrote: “There is no clear distinction between creation and God in one sense, because everything in creation already contains God's being by participation (divine esse -> actus essendi -> substance).” There is a clear distinction between creation and God, even in your sense, because creation does not contain God’s being. Nothing can contain God’s being, because that would count as a limitation, which is impossible for an infinite and unlimited being.

    Also, the idea that you cannot understand the "eternally spoken" without a speaker is the point, which is why it's a better analogy than the earlier one. God is spoken but there is no speaker: ipse actus essendi subsistens, an act of being without a limiting mode of being; a spoken word without a limiting mode of being-spoken. It's like a spoken word that speaks other words without being identifiable with them, which is present in every word as its cause and yet utterly absent from it. If this sounds strange, it's because the God of Aquinas is strange. If it sounds like differance, that's because Derrida and Aquinas built from similar sources. If it sounds like Eckhart, that's because Eckhart sounds like Dionysius.

    I’m pretty sure that once your system reaches a point of positing the possibility of speech without a speaker, then you’ve pretty much given up the game. I mean, if you can accept that, then it makes sense that you could accept the possibility of a being that cannot possibly have any parts simultaneously having multiple parts, and not bat an eyelash. Furthermore, if you accept that as a legitimate move, then I suppose that I can accept that something in potency can actually cause something after all. What? This is impossible? No, no. It only seems absurd. It actually deals with a deeper truth.

    And the irony is that this is Derrida’s and Caputo’s point. This would be an instance of a necessary impossibility. Thomism is simply impossible without the impossible conjunction of simplicity and diversity within God. And this makes one deeply uncomfortable, and arouses passionate intensity, because there is no escape! You desperately need the system to be true, and yet you simultaneously see that it cannot possibly be true, because it contains a contradiction at it heart. And thus you have two choices in this scenario. One, you allow the system to crash to the ground into nothingness, and simply reject it entirely. Two, you keep using the system, but with an anxiety about the underlying tension, not knowing when the whole thing will become undone, but desperately needing it to say intact, and praying like mad that things turn out okay.

    This, again, is false. Aquinas does not buy this definition, as the large quotes above should illustrate. His understanding of analogy is quite different.

    Again, he presupposes similarity without explicitly saying it, because he knows that if he came out and said it, then he would be stuck with a contradiction in his system. So, he fudges it, puts tape over the crack, and just whistles while he walks away.

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  56. What can I tell you? Here’s Wippel on the same passage: “he concludes that the form of an effect must be presesnt in some fashion in a cause which surpasses it in perfection (an equivocal cause), but according to another mode and with another intelligible content” (Ibid., p. 517). And furthermore, “even with respect to pure perfections, does such reasoning justify our concluding that there is something intrinsically and formally present in God which the produced effects resemble? Thomas believes that this is so, although he will admit that any name signifying such a perfection can be applied to God only analogically, not univocally or equivocally” (Ibid., p. 518).

    You don't seem to understand the technical aspects, here. Aquinas says that the sun contains effects "virtually" in a unified form. This is somewhat like saying that the physical constitution (particles, etc.) of a human exists "virtually" within the human's form. The form is absolutely not composed by these things, but they exist within it virtually. The sun is not composed by "dryness" and "heat", but the effects exist virtually within it.

    Aquinas then tells us that God, by knowing his essence, knows every way in which his essence can be known. In this way, God is utterly non-composite, but he knows every way in which he can efficiently cause other things. Further, he can contains all perfections virtually, as with the sun's effects of dryness and heat. Here are a few passages from the ST.

    "First, because whatever perfection exists in an effect must be found in the effective cause: either in the same formality, if it is a univocal agent---as when man reproduces man; or in a more eminent degree, if it is an equivocal agent---thus in the sun is the likeness of whatever is generated by the sun's power. Now it is plain that the effect pre-exists virtually in the efficient cause: and although to pre-exist in the potentiality of a material cause is to pre-exist in a more imperfect way, since matter as such is imperfect, and an agent as such is perfect; still to pre-exist virtually in the efficient cause is to pre-exist not in a more imperfect, but in a more perfect way. Since therefore God is the first effective cause of things, the perfections of all things must pre-exist in God in a more eminent way. Dionysius implies the same line of argument by saying of God (Div. Nom. v): 'It is not that He is this and not that, but that He is all, as the cause of all.'"

    "Consequently, He must contain within Himself the whole perfection of being. For it is clear that if some hot thing has not the whole perfection of heat, this is because heat is not participated in its full perfection; but if this heat were self-subsisting, nothing of the virtue of heat would be wanting to it. Since therefore God is subsisting being itself, nothing of the perfection of being can be wanting to Him. Now all created perfections are included in the perfection of being; for things are perfect, precisely so far as they have being after some fashion."

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  57. Second, even taking your analogy of a standard of goodness, to say that X is good according to standard S necessarily means that the form of goodness must be present both in X and in S. And if you want to say that X is like S, then that means that they are both partially identical (i.e. they both share the form of goodness) and partially different (i.e. X is a thing and S is a standard, and thus they have different properties).

    This is wrong, though. God is goodness in the way that medicine is healthy: he is goodness-causing, and all goodness must pre-exist virtually within him. Medicine causes health, but it is not healthy--it merely contains health virtually, by virtue of its efficient cause. This is what it means to predicate by analogy: to say that the equivocal cause is like its effect insofar as the effect is within the cause virtually. This is probably why Jean-Luc Marion suggests in God Without Being, when he says that Thomism should abandon the notion that God has being. Given the idea of equivocal causes, it seems somewhat plausible to say that God might not be said to be: he is being-causing, and, thanks to equivocal causation, all perfections of being must pre-exist within him virtually. Taken a certain way, it almost seems logical to say that God cannot be said to exist. I disagree with this for technical reasons, but I can understand where he's coming from.

    So, how can you have division in a being that has no composition”?

    Should be obvious, now. The virtual pre-existence of effects in equivocal causes.

    How do you infer from not being limited in this one way to being unlimited in every way? Does it follow from the lack of this particular kind of composition that it is not limited by matter? Not limited by accidents?

    How could a being with no distinction between its existence and essence be said to be limited by accidents or matter? Consider the composition of beings in Aquinas's system. The ten categories (substance through passion, or "being-affected") are split by Aquinas into two types of being. The first is "substantial being"; the second is "accidental being". Now, something is a substance if its essence and and existence are different, and it may possess accidental being as a result of this. But God is not a substance, and so he cannot be part of any of the ten categories. Because the ten categories are the ways in which being is manifested--restriction of esse as this or that mode of being--, it follows that God must be completely unrestricted. And the argument against prime matter's restriction of God is that prime matter is a type of being (potential being), but all being derives from God, and so God is prior to and unrestricted by prime matter. It seems, then, that God is not restricted by anything, which is what it means to be simple and what it means to be infinite (not-finite).

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  58. The other passages basically just reiterate this same idea, but in different ways. So, I don’t think that those passages actually help your case. The bottom line is that there is a problem with the idea that God causes creation if it is understood in the Thomist framework, because God is simple, and thus has only one thing to give, himself in his infinite completeness.

    God's power is to be understood in two ways, as Aquinas said. First, as identical to himself, which means identical to his existence. Second, in relation to the effects that it produces. Likewise, an uninstantiated whiteness would contain the full power of whiteness within itself, but it would also efficiently produce white things, whose various perfections existed virtually within the "ideal whiteness" itself.

    I don’t understand what you are saying here.

    God is a logical dark spot, but we know that our being comes from this logical dark spot because of a posteriori arguments. Now, because humans are composite, they may have the category "relation" attributed to them. Relation is a kind of accidental being. We have a relation, then, to the logical dark spot called God. However, God cannot possess accidental being, and so he cannot possess a relation in himself. Other things may be related to him, but he may not be related to them, so to speak. So, when we say that God has a relation to us, and not vice versa, we are considering a logical being: God's being is in reality indifferent to our existence. This is divine impassibility, or apatheia.

    This is why Aquinas concludes that creation is merely the beginning of existence of a creature and a relation of that creature to God, but not the other way around.

    On the one hand, God is metaphysically simple, and thus cannot possible consist of any kind of diversity, distinction, and difference, because all of them consist of composition of some kind. After all, to be diverse, distinct or different necessarily involves at least two things (i.e. parts or components) that are distinguished by their differentiating features, none of which is possible in a metaphysically simple being, such as God.

    As Aquinas said, the effects of the sun pre-exist virtually within the sun. They do not compose the sun, nor are they parts of the sun, because the sun possesses them in unified form. Likewise, all being pre-exists virtually within God.

    On the other hand, God must have divine ideas as exemplars that created entities are supposed share a “likeness”, or “similitude”, or “imitation” to.

    By knowing his essence, God knows every way in which his essence may be known or imitated. In this way, the forms pre-exist virtually within God, even though they are not part of his constitution.

    There is no resolution of this contradiction.

    I believe that it was just resolved.

    Getting to the other stuff soon.

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  59. What do you mean by “likeness”? I have laid my cards on the table. For me, “likeness” occurs when you have X and Y, and X has something in common with Y, i.e. X has neither everything nor nothing in common with Y. What do you mean?

    Aquinas means likeness in the sense of an equivocal cause. Medicine gives health: the sun gives heat. But medicine is not health, nor is the sun heat, except in the sense of virtual pre-existence. God is the medicine to our health, or the sun to our heat. This is what analogy and likeness means.

    Nothing can contain God’s being, because that would count as a limitation, which is impossible for an infinite and unlimited being.

    Nothing can contain it, but everything participates in it. Every actus essendi is itself actualized by the divine being, and so the divine being's presence is seen in everything. In that sense, there is nothing other than God everywhere, as people like Augustine, Aquinas and Dionysius occasionally say. In the second sense, God is not in anything, and so is nowhere at all, keeping the distinction between God and creation. This is why it is possible to say that God is everywhere and nowhere.

    I’m pretty sure that once your system reaches a point of positing the possibility of speech without a speaker, then you’ve pretty much given up the game.

    Actually, no. God is not meant to be understood logically. Could we make a system that placed him in such a framework? Certainly. But that system is univocal onto-theology, and the deity envisioned by it would be a false idol. When I talk about God as spoken without a speaker, I am trying to communicate the theological enormity of Aquinas's ideas. Like all of the best mystical traditions, it is above logic. It's like how the Taoists tell us that "the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao".

    To demand that God be logically intelligible while simultaneously launching an attack on onto-theology is a very strange blend of incompatible philosophies.

    This would be an instance of a necessary impossibility. Thomism is simply impossible without the impossible conjunction of simplicity and diversity within God. And this makes one deeply uncomfortable, and arouses passionate intensity, because there is no escape!

    Again, you've simply misunderstood Aquinas, per above. You always think that you've reached the bottom of the rabbit hole, but it just keeps getting deeper.

    Again, he presupposes similarity without explicitly saying it, because he knows that if he came out and said it, then he would be stuck with a contradiction in his system. So, he fudges it, puts tape over the crack, and just whistles while he walks away.

    Nope.

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  60. Rank:

    You don't seem to understand the technical aspects, here. Aquinas says that the sun contains effects "virtually" in a unified form. This is somewhat like saying that the physical constitution (particles, etc.) of a human exists "virtually" within the human's form. The form is absolutely not composed by these things, but they exist within it virtually. The sun is not composed by "dryness" and "heat", but the effects exist virtually within it.

    First, however these effects are present in a cause, whether eminently or virtually, they are still present within the cause, and are ultimately transferred to the effect when the cause causes the effect. That is what “causation” means. You are making a distinction that doesn’t make a difference to my ultimate conclusion, as you will see.

    Second, what does “virtually” even mean? Is it just a kind of potentiality? Is every possibility that a thing can ever actualize contained within a substantial form? And even if it is a kind of potentiality, then it would still have to exist in the form as a potentiality to actualize some effect. And since that effect would have to have a form of its own, it follows that the potentiality would have to be directed towards the actualization of a form, which also means that the ens would have to contain a substantial form that would have to contain another form “virtually” as a potential form that could be actualized by the ens in the future.

    Aquinas then tells us that God, by knowing his essence, knows every way in which his essence can be known. In this way, God is utterly non-composite, but he knows every way in which he can efficiently cause other things.

    This makes no sense. If he knows every way that he can cause other things, then he must know that he could cause this thing, and that thing, and that thing, and so on, which necessarily involves division and multiplicity, and thus composition. That is the problem.

    Further, he can contains all perfections virtually, as with the sun's effects of dryness and heat.

    If “virtually” is a kind of potentiality, then are you saying that God contains a kind of potentiality? And if “virtually” is not a kind of potentiality, then it is either a kind of actuality or absolute non-being. It cannot be absolute non-being, and thus it must be a kind of actuality. But what could this mean for a “virtual” form? It would seem that the sun, when it contains “dryness” as a pre-existent virtual form, then “dryness” must already be actual! But that is absurd, and so you have to better account for the status of a “pre-existent virtual form”, because so far, it is not looking good.

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  61. This is wrong, though. God is goodness in the way that medicine is healthy: he is goodness-causing, and all goodness must pre-exist virtually within him. Medicine causes health, but it is not healthy--it merely contains health virtually, by virtue of its efficient cause.

    For God to cause goodness, he must first possess goodness, which he does, because he is goodness itself. Whether goodness pre-exists virtually within him, or exists actually within him, or exists in some other way within him, the point is that it exists within him, and that is the necessary condition for him to share his goodness through his causal activity. It is the same thing with medicine and health. It must contain “health”, whether virtually, actually, or whatever, and through its efficient causation transmit “health” to something else to make it healthy, i.e. possessing health. They are simply different modes of being for “health”, i.e. in medicine, “health”-causing-in-a-person, and in a person, “health”-caused-in-a-person. But “health” is there in both, but in different modes of being. It is like the form of “dogness” being present both in “dogness”-in-matter and “dogness”-in-intellect. It is the same form of “dogness”, but present in different modes of being, i.e. one material and the other immaterial.

    This is what it means to predicate by analogy: to say that the equivocal cause is like its effect insofar as the effect is within the cause virtually.

    But the point is that there is something in the cause that is then transferred in the effect. I mean, there are a number of components here.

    (1) The actual cause C, which contains the effect E in a pre-existent and virtual fashion
    (2) The actual effect E

    When does causation occur on this account? When an actual C converts the pre-existent and virtual E into an actual E.

    To say that an actual E is like its actual C is to invoke a similarity relationship, because an actual E is partly the same as its actual C and partly different from its actual C. How is an actual E partly the same as its actual C? Because E is present in both an actual E as an actual E and in an actual C as a pre-existent virtual E. How is an actual E partly different from its actual C? Because E is actual in E, but pre-existent and virtual in its actual C, and also because an actual C has other properties that are different from its actual E. For example, when medicine causes health, medicine has features that are different from health, such as a distinctive shape, color, taste, texture, and so on.

    So, it still fits into my account pretty well, I think.

    Should be obvious, now. The virtual pre-existence of effects in equivocal causes.

    First, this account has problems if “virtual pre-existence” is conceived as a kind of potentiality, especially if you want to use “virtual pre-existence” as something in God.

    Second, why shouldn’t virtual pre-existent effects in equivocal causes count as parts of equivocal causes? I mean, at the very least, the equivocal causes have a number of virtual pre-existent effects, each distinct from the others, and thus there is diversity within even equivocal causes, which would count as composition. I mean, if form-matter can count as a composite, even though it is impossible for matter to exist without a form, and thus it is an inherent unity, then why such a fuss about pre-existent virtual effects in an equivocal cause? It seems that form-matter should be more objectionable as a composite, especially since it is impossible for one part of the composite to exist without the other.

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  62. God's power is to be understood in two ways, as Aquinas said. First, as identical to himself, which means identical to his existence. Second, in relation to the effects that it produces.

    If God’s power can be understood in two ways, then there is a distinction within God, and Aquinas argues that any distinction between X and Y within any being means that that being is a composite of X and Y. Therefore, if God’s power can be understood as power1 and power2, whatever power1 and power2 happen to be, automatically results in composition in God. Unless you want to say that power1 is identical to power2? The problem with this is that power1 is associated with a metaphysically simple being and power2 is associated with a composite being by virtue of its possession of different pre-existent virtual effects. And the issue here is how a metaphysically simple being can possibly contain diversity within itself.

    God is a logical dark spot, but we know that our being comes from this logical dark spot because of a posteriori arguments. Now, because humans are composite, they may have the category "relation" attributed to them. Relation is a kind of accidental being. We have a relation, then, to the logical dark spot called God. However, God cannot possess accidental being, and so he cannot possess a relation in himself. Other things may be related to him, but he may not be related to them, so to speak.

    So, God cannot be related to creation as the cause of creation? God cannot be related to creation as the source of its goodness? God cannot be related to creation as the final cause of creation? It seems that God has lots of relations with creation! Or, are all of these descriptions jettisoned into the “logical dark spot”, and ultimately empty of content?

    As Aquinas said, the effects of the sun pre-exist virtually within the sun. They do not compose the sun, nor are they parts of the sun, because the sun possesses them in unified form. Likewise, all being pre-exists virtually within God.

    Why don’t they compose the sun? Part of what it means to be a sun is to be capable of producing certain effects. Are you saying that the range of possible effects that a thing can cause does not constitute what a being is? And if you are saying that, then haven’t you also thrown out final causes as constitutive of what a thing is. After all, final causes of a kind of possible effects that a thing can cause. In fact, they are the kind of possible effects that are essential for the being to be what it is.

    By knowing his essence, God knows every way in which his essence may be known or imitated. In this way, the forms pre-exist virtually within God, even though they are not part of his constitution.

    Again, this assumes that pre-existent virtual forms are not parts of God. If there was a single form, then that would be fine, but you are talking about multiple forms that exist in God’s intellect. If they are in him, then they are essential to him, because he has no accidents, and thus it is essential to God to have multiple forms within his intellect. These virtual multiple forms either actually exist in his intellect, potentially exist in his intellect, or do not exist at all in his intellect. They cannot potentially exist in his intellect, because he is Pure Act. They cannot not exist at all in his intellect, because then there is no sense in saying they are there at all. So, they must actually exist in his intellect, and thus, when it comes to God, “pre-existent virtual” forms ultimately are actual forms, and if they are actually present, then God contains actual multiplicity, and thus it is part of his essence of non-composition to contain multiplicity, and thus composition.

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  63. Aquinas means likeness in the sense of an equivocal cause. Medicine gives health: the sun gives heat. But medicine is not health, nor is the sun heat, except in the sense of virtual pre-existence. God is the medicine to our health, or the sun to our heat. This is what analogy and likeness means.

    I’ve already explained why this account ultimately reduces to my account of similarity.

    Nothing can contain it, but everything participates in it.

    You are still stuck with the problem of how esse subsistens can be limited by an essence to become an ens. That would imply that the unlimited can become limited. Furthermore, if you reply that it is not esse subsistens that is limited, but only esse commune, then the problem with that is that esse commune is not esse subsistens, because esse commune can only exist conjoined to essence to form an ens, whereas esse subsistens exists fully independently of anything.

    Given that esse commune is distinct form esse subsistens, it necessarily follows that esse commune is a compound entity, because only esse subsistens is simple. Given that esse commune is a compound entity, it must be composed of esse and essence, which means that esse commune has an essence, but also has esse. Now, what is this “esse” that is conjoined with the essence of esse commune to produce esse commune? Could it be esse subsistens? Nope, because then it would be limited by the essence of esse commune, which is impossible. So, it must be another kind of esse, call it esse commune2. However, esse commune2, given that it is distinct from esse subsistens, must also be compound, and thus must also be composed of esse and essence. And the problem here is that unless esse subsistens can be limited by an essence at some point, then you have an infinite regress of esse communes that are never actually actualized by esse subsistens ever.

    Actually, no. God is not meant to be understood logically. Could we make a system that placed him in such a framework? Certainly. But that system is univocal onto-theology, and the deity envisioned by it would be a false idol. When I talk about God as spoken without a speaker, I am trying to communicate the theological enormity of Aquinas's ideas. Like all of the best mystical traditions, it is above logic. It's like how the Taoists tell us that "the Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao".

    Great! Semiotic representationalism is “above logic”, too. That is why it can contain contradictions and absurdities, and yet still remain true. How do you know when something is “above logic”? When a system necessarily requires a particular set of propositions to function, and yet those propositions are impossible within the system itself? God is necessary within the system of Thomism, but God is impossible within the system of Thomism, unless you stretch the meaning of terms to the breaking point of coherence, such as speech without a speaker. Where did the speech come from? A speaker? Nope? You might as well talk about a potentiality in God. Impossible? No, “above logic”! It seems that with this trump card you can explain away any contradiction in any system as unimportant, because there are deeper truths. Here I was thinking that a contradiction, such as you exposed in Derrida’s representationalism, was a reason to reject a system, when all this time, a contradiction is just a sign that something really and deeply profoundly true is happening. Maybe dialetheism is true after all?

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  64. First, however these effects are present in a cause, whether eminently or virtually, they are still present within the cause, and are ultimately transferred to the effect when the cause causes the effect. That is what “causation” means. You are making a distinction that doesn’t make a difference to my ultimate conclusion, as you will see.

    They are not present in the cause as diverse forms, though. Again, pure white light contains all other colors virtually, even though it is none of them itself. (A reductionist would claim otherwise, but he would be ignored here.) Likewise, ipse actus essendi subsistens contains all other perfections virtually, even though it is not univocally identifiable with any of them. It is to individual actus essendi as white light is to individual colors: it contains virtually but is not the totality.

    Second, what does “virtually” even mean? Is it just a kind of potentiality? Is every possibility that a thing can ever actualize contained within a substantial form? And even if it is a kind of potentiality, then it would still have to exist in the form as a potentiality to actualize some effect. And since that effect would have to have a form of its own, it follows that the potentiality would have to be directed towards the actualization of a form, which also means that the ens would have to contain a substantial form that would have to contain another form “virtually” as a potential form that could be actualized by the ens in the future.

    Consider that a human is made of particles. These constitute at least part of our matter. But the particles are not us, nor are we reducible to the particles. Even if we counted the totality of a human's particles, we would not reach a human. A human is a holistic substance that contains the forms of particles virtually. It is not the particles, nor are the particles it: but it contains them by virtue of occupying a higher level of being. The particles, in some sense, "participate" in the human. This account is not directly analogous to God, because it relies on an account of matter; but it's a good way to visualize virtual existence.

    Similarly, Aquinas's understanding of the sun had it as the origin of dryness and heat, but it was neither dryness nor heat. These effects existed virtually within the cause. But the cause is not dryness or heat, nor is it composed of dryness or heat: rather, it is able to cause dryness and heat by virtue of its being the sun. If we knew the sun's effects but could not know it, we might refer to it as "heat itself" and "dryness itself", even though we knew by necessity that it was something else that contained both.

    This makes no sense. If he knows every way that he can cause other things, then he must know that he could cause this thing, and that thing, and that thing, and so on, which necessarily involves division and multiplicity, and thus composition. That is the problem.

    God knows his own essence primarily, and everything else follows from that. His essence is higher than the totality of essences, and so can be said to contain them--not as totality, but through an "infinite analogical interval", in Hart's words. Because God knows his essence, it follows that all virtual essences that participate in but are not that essence are known to him.

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  65. But what could this mean for a “virtual” form? It would seem that the sun, when it contains “dryness” as a pre-existent virtual form, then “dryness” must already be actual! But that is absurd, and so you have to better account for the status of a “pre-existent virtual form”, because so far, it is not looking good.

    Dryness is actual insofar as it pre-exists in the sun but has not been differentiated from it. To return to the white light example, it is the case that every color is actual--not merely potential--within it, or otherwise it could not be their cause and exemplar. But the colors have not been differentiated from it: they exist virtually within white light, which is neither the total sum of all colors nor univocally identifiable with all colors.

    For God to cause goodness, he must first possess goodness, which he does, because he is goodness itself. Whether goodness pre-exists virtually within him, or exists actually within him, or exists in some other way within him, the point is that it exists within him, and that is the necessary condition for him to share his goodness through his causal activity.

    God is goodness itself in the same way that we might call an invisible white light "redness itself", or an invisible sun "dryness itself". He contains goodness in a more perfect way, but, because none of his "attributes" are differentiated, it must be the case that God is the exemplar of goodness, truth, beauty and so on in a wholly analogical sense. He is greater than the totality of these "attributes", even though the divine names, by looking at God from different angles, allow us to grasp him through analogy. Likewise, a pure white light might be said to be redness itself, since it is the exemplar of redness while not being red itself.

    If God’s power can be understood in two ways, then there is a distinction within God, and Aquinas argues that any distinction between X and Y within any being means that that being is a composite of X and Y. Therefore, if God’s power can be understood as power1 and power2, whatever power1 and power2 happen to be, automatically results in composition in God. Unless you want to say that power1 is identical to power2? The problem with this is that power1 is associated with a metaphysically simple being and power2 is associated with a composite being by virtue of its possession of different pre-existent virtual effects. And the issue here is how a metaphysically simple being can possibly contain diversity within itself.

    The second sense of God's power is one of relation.

    http://dhspriory.org/thomas/ContraGentiles2.htm#10

    "But, since nothing is its own principle, and God’s action is not other than His power, it is clear from the foregoing that power is attributed to God, not as principle of action, but as principle of the thing made. And since power implies relation to something else as having the character of a principle (for active power is the principle of acting on something else, as Aristotle says in Metaphysics V [12]), it is evident that power is in truth attributed to God in relation to things made, not in relation to action, except according to our way of understanding, namely, so far as our intellect considers both God’s power and His action through diverse conceptions. Hence, if certain actions are proper to God which do not pass into something made but remain in Him, power is not attributed to Him in their regard, except according to our manner of understanding, and not according to reality. Such actions are understanding and willing. Properly speaking, therefore, God’s power does not regard such actions, but only effects. Consequently, intellect and will are in God, not as powers, but only as actions."

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  66. In the preceding sections, Aquinas sets up that God's power is identical to his actuality, his being and so forth. But power, as Aristotle says in that citation, is a relation between cause and effect. But, because God contains no composition, he cannot himself contain a relation, except logically. This means that God can be the cause of outside things without being related (in the categorical sense) to them; it is only they who are related to him. In this way, it may be said that we understand God's power in two ways, since it is identical to his esse in reality, but is related to creation logically. Creation, on the other hand, has a real relation to God, since it is composite.

    So, God cannot be related to creation as the cause of creation? God cannot be related to creation as the source of its goodness? God cannot be related to creation as the final cause of creation? It seems that God has lots of relations with creation! Or, are all of these descriptions jettisoned into the “logical dark spot”, and ultimately empty of content?

    God contains no relations, and so is impassible. Creation, on the other hand, possesses a real relation to God. It is in this sense that we describe God as the cause of creation, the source of goodness in creation, the final cause of creation and so on. If we were talking about God himself, though, then these relations are only logical ones. It's a matter of which perspective you take.

    Why don’t they compose the sun? Part of what it means to be a sun is to be capable of producing certain effects.

    The sun would be the sun even if earth wasn't around to be dried by it. An absolutely simple being would be totally impassible, and so would remain the same even if it chose to do nothing other than exist. Final causes are considered relationally, and God is not related to anything other than himself. Hart goes into further detail: the fellowship of the Trinity, which is relational, makes God an utterly complete reciprocal structure of love on his own. Now God, by virtue of being what he is, contains every individual essence and actus essendi in virtual form. These effects are not the cause, nor do they compose the cause, nor are they any attack on divine simplicity.

    If they are in him, then they are essential to him, because he has no accidents, and thus it is essential to God to have multiple forms within his intellect.

    White light is not essentially red, nor is redness accidental to it; but it is still the source of redness.

    Given that esse commune is distinct form esse subsistens, it necessarily follows that esse commune is a compound entity, because only esse subsistens is simple.

    Esse commune in logical form is absolutely simple. The problem is that it is a logical entity, and so does not exist. This is one of the key differences between esse commune and esse subsistens. Remember that esse commune is simply a logical abstraction of the totality of being, and so it may be reduced to actus essendi in individual form. Actus essendi considered on its own is also simple--on top of being real--, but it is necessarily united with essence, and so it cannot ever be more than part of a composite entity. It is simple, but it is limited by its mode of expression.

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  67. Great! Semiotic representationalism is “above logic”, too. That is why it can contain contradictions and absurdities, and yet still remain true.

    This just begs the question. Whether or not semiotic representationalism is comparable to God would have to be argued first. And, upon inspection, it clearly is not. Semiotic representationalism is an epistemological structure; God, even if you don't believe that he exists, is not an epistemological structure. So, the comparison is invalid from the start.

    How do you know when something is “above logic”? When a system necessarily requires a particular set of propositions to function, and yet those propositions are impossible within the system itself?

    The propositions are not impossible within the system itself: they are merely unknowable by that system. Likewise, I would not claim that differance, by its very unknowability, topples Derrida's structure. It is the way that differance undermines its own basis that leads to its downfall. But the God of Thomism does not undermine our bases for learning of his existence, and so the logical structure stands.

    God is necessary within the system of Thomism, but God is impossible within the system of Thomism, unless you stretch the meaning of terms to the breaking point of coherence, such as speech without a speaker. Where did the speech come from? A speaker? Nope? You might as well talk about a potentiality in God. Impossible? No, “above logic”! It seems that with this trump card you can explain away any contradiction in any system as unimportant, because there are deeper truths.

    No; there are merely truths that logic can hint at but not explain. If this was not the case, we'd be left with Hegelian onto-theology and its subsequent nihilism. When I speak of God directly, it's going to sound like nonsense, because it is above sense. Considering that post-modernism is all about knowing the supra-rational sublime, I'd assumed that you'd be on board with a rejection of all-consuming logical totality.

    In any case, the beauty of Thomism is that it contains both the hyper-rationalism that constitutes analytic philosophy and the contemplative, mystical elements often in continental philosophy. These two do not negate but support each other--Hart's equation of "poetry before rationality" comes to mind. However, you should not attempt to grasp the mystical side by appealing to heavy-duty logic, nor should you employ the rational side through appeals to mysticism. In the first case, you end up with onto-theology; in the second, sloppy metaphysics. You seem to be heading for option 1 right now.

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  68. Regarding the virtual distinction,

    A few links and quotations.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/59000198/6/CHAPTER-6

    "The conceptual or notional distinction between the transcendental modes of being and being itself is what is called a “virtual distinction,” which means that it is a distinction which hasa basis, a foundation, in reality. Let us explain virtual distinction again. A real distinction is adistinction that exists independently of one’s mind, pertaining to elements of reality of which oneis not actually the other or others. A logical distinction or a distinction of reason exists only inthe mind. It is but a product of mental activity, occuring when the mind forms different conceptsof what in itself is simply one. On the other hand, we have what is called the virtual distinction,which is a distinction of reason having a foundation in reality. If there be not a foundation inreality, the distinction of reason would be a product of the mind pure and simple; it would be is a purely logical or verbal distinction. This is not the case with the distinction of the transcendentalsfrom being, for while not real, it nevertheless has a foundation in the order of being (theontological order or order of reality). It is a virtual distinction. But let us be even more precise asregards the virtual distinction. There are two types of virtual distinctions: the major virtualdistinction and the minor virtual distinction. In a major virtual distinction the conceptsdistinguished may be such that one contains the other or others only potentially, as genus thespecies. In a minor virtual distinction, on the other hand, one concept contains the other or othersactually but not explicitly, as analogue does the analogated perfections, and being thetranscendental properties or attributes. This latter, the minor virtual distinction, regards the typeof distinction of the transcendentals from being."

    After that brief explanation, dive into this meatier one (use the link for details; I've only taken out a few quotes):

    http://www.thesumma.info/one/one37.php

    "The metaphysical degrees are not actually distinct in a thing before the mind's consideration, as, for instance, in Peter, animality, vitality, rationality, and substantiality; for these are reduced to the same concept of humanity, of which animality is the genus, rationality is the specific differentia. Thus they correspond to the same reality that is in itself one but virtually multiplex."

    "The common opinion of the theologians mediates, so to speak, between nominalism and exaggerated realism, and towers above them. This opinion, the source of which is the moderate realism of St. Thomas, is commonly formulated by the Thomists and a great number of theologians as follows: There is a minor virtual distinction between the divine attributes and God's essence, between the divine attributes, and likewise between the divine persons and the essence."

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  69. Rank:

    They are not present in the cause as diverse forms, though. Again, pure white light contains all other colors virtually, even though it is none of them itself. (A reductionist would claim otherwise, but he would be ignored here.) Likewise, ipse actus essendi subsistens contains all other perfections virtually, even though it is not univocally identifiable with any of them. It is to individual actus essendi as white light is to individual colors: it contains virtually but is not the totality.

    The question is the status of this “virtually”. Is it actual, potential, nothingness, or something else? And if it is something else, then what are the characteristics of this something else that distinguishes it from the others?

    Consider that a human is made of particles. These constitute at least part of our matter. But the particles are not us, nor are we reducible to the particles. Even if we counted the totality of a human's particles, we would not reach a human. A human is a holistic substance that contains the forms of particles virtually. It is not the particles, nor are the particles it: but it contains them by virtue of occupying a higher level of being. The particles, in some sense, "participate" in the human. This account is not directly analogous to God, because it relies on an account of matter; but it's a good way to visualize virtual existence.

    But who we are is partly determined by those particles, that particular arrangement of matter, and that is partially constitutive of who we are. You cannot just ignore that dimension of us and call it “virtual”. Furthermore, once we lose that particular arrangement of matter after we die, we are not, in fact, human anymore, and will only become human again once our subsistent immaterial intellect reunites with its material body. So, yes, our identity is holistic, but that whole is composed of parts, any one of which, when missing, results in the rupture of that identity. Furthermore, despite the fact that a human being is a holistic substance, Aquinas still considers it to be composite, because it has these numerous components within the whole. So, even Aquinas considers virtual parts to be sufficient as a justification to call the whole a composite entity.

    God knows his own essence primarily, and everything else follows from that. His essence is higher than the totality of essences, and so can be said to contain them--not as totality, but through an "infinite analogical interval", in Hart's words. Because God knows his essence, it follows that all virtual essences that participate in but are not that essence are known to him.

    The problem is that there is no “everything else follows from that”. Nothing follows anything, because of absolute simplicity. X after Y would be composition, and thus prohibited. It all has to exist as an un-decomposable unity all at once. And the issue is how you can have an un-decomposable unity that is subsequently decomposed into particularity and multiplicity? That would mean that it is decomposable after all, and thus not absolutely simple.

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  70. Dryness is actual insofar as it pre-exists in the sun but has not been differentiated from it.

    How does this differ from potentiality within an actual being? Potentiality is “actual insofar as it pre-exists” in the being, but “has not been differentiated from it” by becoming actualized. For example, an acorn has the potential to become an oak, and this potentiality is “actual insofar as it pre-exists”, which it does, and this potentiality becomes differentiated from the potentiality-in-an-acorn-to-become-an-oak to the actuality-as-an-oak. So, the two are basically the same, no?

    To return to the white light example, it is the case that every color is actual--not merely potential--within it, or otherwise it could not be their cause and exemplar. But the colors have not been differentiated from it: they exist virtually within white light, which is neither the total sum of all colors nor univocally identifiable with all colors.

    First, the color red is actually there in white light, because white light means all wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation combined into a unity, and thus there is a portion of that totality of electromagnetic radiation that corresponds to the wavelength of red. It is not “virtually” there. It is actually there. It would be like saying that the bricks of a house are “virtually” there in the unity of the house. No, they are actually there. You can pull them apart and examine them. It does not make sense to say that it is “virtual” at all.

    Second, if the pre-existent virtual effect is actually there, then it is actually there in the sense that a brick is actually there in the house, or is it actually there in the sense of a power? In other words, does having a pre-existent virtual effect E in a cause C just mean that C has the power to cause E? In that case, E is the potential to do actualize E under the right circumstances, which means that E is not actually there, but only potentially actualizable. After all, a power is the capability to do X, which is different from actually doing X. You could not do X at all unless you had the power to do X, but just having the power to do X is not the same as actualizing X. So, if a cause C has a pre-existent virtual effect E, and this ultimately comes down to having the power to actualize E under the right circumstances, then doesn’t it follow that having the power to do X would be part of what it means to be a Y? For example, the power to abstract forms from matter is part of what it means to be a human being. If having a power to do X is necessarily a part of the essence of being a Y, and if all this talk of pre-existent virtual effects in causes ultimately reduces to the power to actualize an effect, then pre-existent virtual effects in causes are parts of Y after all.

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  71. God is goodness itself in the same way that we might call an invisible white light "redness itself", or an invisible sun "dryness itself". He contains goodness in a more perfect way, but, because none of his "attributes" are differentiated, it must be the case that God is the exemplar of goodness, truth, beauty and so on in a wholly analogical sense. He is greater than the totality of these "attributes", even though the divine names, by looking at God from different angles, allow us to grasp him through analogy. Likewise, a pure white light might be said to be redness itself, since it is the exemplar of redness while not being red itself.

    But the problem is that a pure white light can only be the exemplar of redness, because it contains redness within it. Redness is already actually there in the white light. It is not a potentiality that has not been actualized. It has been actualized, because if it weren’t, then you wouldn’t have white light at all. But that isn’t what you mean here. What you mean is not that redness actually exists in white light in this sense, but rather that it has the power to cause redness under the right circumstances, such as if the white light passes through a prism. And this does not help, because the issue is whether pre-existent virtual effects can be considered parts of a whole. My contention is that pre-existent virtual effects are ultimately powers to do X, and if it makes sense to say that a being’s definition is composed of multiple powers, then it makes sense to say that a being’s definition is composed of multiple pre-existent virtual effects, because they are ultimately the same thing.

    In the preceding sections, Aquinas sets up that God's power is identical to his actuality, his being and so forth. But power, as Aristotle says in that citation, is a relation between cause and effect. But, because God contains no composition, he cannot himself contain a relation, except logically.

    So, God cannot be considered to be a cause of creation in actual reality, but only as an intellectual abstraction? So, God does not actually create anything, but we only think that he does? In reality, God is not the creator? Once again, don’t you think that once your theology starts saying things like this, then something has gone horribly wrong?

    This means that God can be the cause of outside things without being related (in the categorical sense) to them; it is only they who are related to him.

    That makes no sense. If we can say that E is the effect of C, then we can say that C is the cause of E. They are necessarily related. To deny this would be like saying that X loves Y, but Y is not loved by X. It makes no sense.

    God contains no relations, and so is impassible. Creation, on the other hand, possesses a real relation to God. It is in this sense that we describe God as the cause of creation, the source of goodness in creation, the final cause of creation and so on. If we were talking about God himself, though, then these relations are only logical ones. It's a matter of which perspective you take.

    As I mentioned above, this seems horribly wrong. To say that God is the creator only “logically”, but not “really”, flies in the face of Scripture, which clearly describes him as the Creator. It does not say, according to our logical categories, which actually do not apply to him in reality. In reality, he is not the Creator. He is only the Creator in our minds. Again, something has gone wrong, no?

    The sun would be the sun even if earth wasn't around to be dried by it.

    But only because it would always have the power to dry the earth, like a fetus has the power of intellect, even if it never abstracts a single form. Again, pre-existent and virtual forms are just another way of talking about potentiality and power: X has the power to do Y = X has the potential to do Y = X has a presence of a pre-existent and virtual Y in itself.

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  72. Now God, by virtue of being what he is, contains every individual essence and actus essendi in virtual form. These effects are not the cause, nor do they compose the cause, nor are they any attack on divine simplicity.

    I disagree. I don’t think its tenable to say that the virtual and pre-existent forms in the cause do not compose the cause. There is multiplicity within the cause by virtue of the presence of multiple virtual and pre-existent forms. The very identity of the cause is characterized by the existence of these diverse virtual and pre-existent forms, and thus it is necessarily the case that the cause in its entirety is composed of multiple virtual and pre-existent forms. Why on earth wouldn’t you consider them parts of the cause? The cause is considered that particular cause by virtue of which virtual and pre-existent forms it possesses. If you change any of those virtual and pre-existent forms, then you have a different cause entirely. It seems pretty clear that they are the parts of the cause, and thus the cause is necessarily a composite entity.

    White light is not essentially red, nor is redness accidental to it; but it is still the source of redness.

    It is essential for white light to contain redness. If white light did not contain redness, then it would not be white light, because the essence of white light is to possess all wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum. The fact that it contains redness is the reason why it can cause redness when processed through a prism. It has to first possess what it later gives. That is the principle of proportionate causality.

    Esse commune in logical form is absolutely simple. The problem is that it is a logical entity, and so does not exist. This is one of the key differences between esse commune and esse subsistens. Remember that esse commune is simply a logical abstraction of the totality of being, and so it may be reduced to actus essendi in individual form. Actus essendi considered on its own is also simple--on top of being real--, but it is necessarily united with essence, and so it cannot ever be more than part of a composite entity. It is simple, but it is limited by its mode of expression.

    Except that Aquinas argues that the esse-essence distinction is a real distinction. It is not merely a logical one. Here’s Wippel: “Thomas is arguing for a distinction that does not depend on our way of thinking about it, and hence for what we understand as a real distinction between them” (Ibid., p. 147). Thus, esse commune is a logical abstraction of a real distinction. Perhaps it would count as a “virtual distinction”, according to the passages that you cited below. But even so, the bottom line is that, in actual reality, there is a true and real distinction between esse commune and essence that does not only exist in our intellects, and that means that esse commune is a creation of God, which means that it must be composite, because only God, only esse subsistens, is simple. And if esse commune is composite, then my argument holds.

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  73. This just begs the question. Whether or not semiotic representationalism is comparable to God would have to be argued first. And, upon inspection, it clearly is not. Semiotic representationalism is an epistemological structure; God, even if you don't believe that he exists, is not an epistemological structure. So, the comparison is invalid from the start.

    Why does this only apply to an “epistemological structure”? Why doesn’t it apply to any theory whatsoever? It seems that you are making an arbitrary distinction here. The bottom line is that any system that necessarily contains something the system considers to be impossible would fall into this scenario. The impossibility within the system could either destroy the system by collapsing it into nothingness and incoherence, or you could preserve the system by saying the contradiction remains true “above logic”. In both Thomism, if I am right, and Derrida’s semiotics, if you are right, you see this very pattern, and thus it should apply to both. To just say that it only applies to epistemological structures also begs the question.

    The propositions are not impossible within the system itself: they are merely unknowable by that system.

    But it is only called “unknowable”, because you have reached a contradiction, an absurdity, an impossibility. Otherwise, it would be “knowable” without difficulty. The problem is how to reconcile a metaphysically simple being with a being that is composed of multiple forms within its intellect. This is a contradiction, which is only avoided by saying, “I have no idea how this contradiction is resolved, but I know that it must be resolved for the sake of the system!” And that is what an “unknowable” is.

    Likewise, I would not claim that differance, by its very unknowability, topples Derrida's structure. It is the way that differance undermines its own basis that leads to its downfall. But the God of Thomism does not undermine our bases for learning of his existence, and so the logical structure stands.

    If the God of Thomism contains a necessary impossibility within it, then you have a contradiction within the system of Thomism, which is centered upon God, and therefore, you have an inconsistent system, which does undermine the system.

    No; there are merely truths that logic can hint at but not explain. If this was not the case, we'd be left with Hegelian onto-theology and its subsequent nihilism. When I speak of God directly, it's going to sound like nonsense, because it is above sense. Considering that post-modernism is all about knowing the supra-rational sublime, I'd assumed that you'd be on board with a rejection of all-consuming logical totality.

    But to even say it is “above sense” only makes sense if “above sense” is within sense. Otherwise, it does not sound like nonsense, but rather it is nonsense. That is the central issue here.

    In any case, the beauty of Thomism is that it contains both the hyper-rationalism that constitutes analytic philosophy and the contemplative, mystical elements often in continental philosophy. These two do not negate but support each other--Hart's equation of "poetry before rationality" comes to mind. However, you should not attempt to grasp the mystical side by appealing to heavy-duty logic, nor should you employ the rational side through appeals to mysticism. In the first case, you end up with onto-theology; in the second, sloppy metaphysics. You seem to be heading for option 1 right now.

    I’m heading where the conclusions lead me.

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  74. dguller,

    You should have read the second link before posting, like I suggested. Doing so would have saved us both a lot of time and energy. The material is from Garrigou-Lagrange, and it solves all of this in a simple form.

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  75. The question is the status of this “virtually”. Is it actual, potential, nothingness, or something else? And if it is something else, then what are the characteristics of this something else that distinguishes it from the others?

    This is their status:

    "The virtual distinction is a distinction founded on reality, which means, contrary to Scotus' theory, that it is non-existent previous to the mind's consideration, and it does not destroy God's absolute simplicity. Against the nominalists and agnostics, however, it is said to be "founded on reality," since the different absolute perfections found in creatures are equivalently expressed in the eminence of the Deity.(42) St. Thomas says expressly: "To the various and multiplied conceptions of our intellect there corresponds one altogether simple principle, according to these conceptions, imperfectly understood." (43) The eminence of the Deity is most simple, but it is virtually multiple, and all absolutely simple perfections are contained in it formally and eminently. This must now be briefly explained, and more fully in the thirteenth question.

    Formally: This means substantially and properly; not merely metaphorically, but analogically and properly.(44)
    Eminently: How the perfections are contained is mysterious; but the divine attributes are so identified in the most eminent and formal concept of the Deity as not to be destroyed by it. They are contained formally in it, and yet they are not formally distinct. In fact, they are found in their purest state, without any imperfection, only in the Deity.

    More briefly, absolute perfections are in God more so than the "seven colors are in the white light; for these seven colors are only virtually present in whiteness, whereas the divine perfections are formally distinct from one another. For, whereas whiteness is not blue, one and true are predicated of the Deity .(45)

    (b) The distinction between the divine attributes is called a minor virtual distinction. For the major virtual distinction is that which is of the nature of excluding and excluded, as in Peter the genus of animality is distinct from rationality, which is the differentia extrinsic to it, and there is a real foundation for conceiving it as in potentiality for this latter, as being susceptible of further perfection by something extraneous to it. But there is no real foundation for conceiving anything in God as in potentiality for some further perfection by the addition of something extraneous to Him. Whatever is conceived in God, must be conceived in Him as purest act. Hence there is a minor virtual distinction between the divine attributes, and between these and the divine essence. This means that the distinction is not of the nature of excluding and excluded, but of implicit and explicit. In other words, God's nature as we conceive it (the self-subsisting Being) contains the attributes more so than virtually, more so than the genus contains the differences extrinsic to it, for they are contained actually and implicitly in it; but discursive reasoning is necessary for their explicit deduction from the divine nature. But the Deity, as it is itself, contains them actually and explicitly. Thus the blessed no longer need to have recourse to discursive reasoning so as clearly to see God's attributes in the Deity. Hence all the attributes mutually include one another, or each contains the others actually and implicitly.

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  76. Moreover, this minor virtual distinction properly applies only to those attributes that are differentiated specifically and that pertain to different orders, as, for instance, between intellection and volition, justice and mercy; but there is no such distinction between attributes which, as found in creatures, differ only as potency and act do, such as between essence and existence, intellect and intellection. There is only an extrinsically virtual distinction between these, which means that the foundation for this distinction is not in the divine reality but in creatures. Otherwise it would have to be said that our conception of God includes the presence of something potential in Him for which there is a foundation in the divine reality. St. Thomas, as we have remarked, makes use of simpler terminology, and says that the distinction between the attributes and the Persons and the divine essence is "not real but logical." (46) Moderate realism and the doctrine of analogy are the two fundamental reasons for this traditional opinion."

    But who we are is partly determined by those particles, that particular arrangement of matter, and that is partially constitutive of who we are.

    This is false. The matter of a human is its flesh, bone and blood, and it ultimately cashes out as prime matter. Particles are not our matter: they exist virtually within it. You've stirred reductionism into the pot.

    Furthermore, despite the fact that a human being is a holistic substance, Aquinas still considers it to be composite, because it has these numerous components within the whole. So, even Aquinas considers virtual parts to be sufficient as a justification to call the whole a composite entity.

    As I said, it's imperfect. An even better example would be the genera within every form, which are neither literal nor logical. If they were real, then everything would possess multiple forms within itself; if they were logical, then they would mean nothing. This, as Garrigou-Lagrange says, is a major virtual distinction, whereas God's distinction is a minor virtual distinction.

    And the issue is how you can have an un-decomposable unity that is subsequently decomposed into particularity and multiplicity? That would mean that it is decomposable after all, and thus not absolutely simple.

    I don't even know what you're saying, here. God is not decomposable. God contains everything virtually because he is really unified--the differences do not exist prior to contemplation--, but we can make virtual distinctions with our minds. This is not to say that they are logical distinctions only.

    For example, an acorn has the potential to become an oak, and this potentiality is “actual insofar as it pre-exists”, which it does, and this potentiality becomes differentiated from the potentiality-in-an-acorn-to-become-an-oak to the actuality-as-an-oak. So, the two are basically the same, no?

    Depending on whether it's a major or minor virtual distinction, it may or may not involve potentiality. The virtual distinction itself sits somewhere between actuality and potentiality, although I would say that it is closer to the former.

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  77. First, the color red is actually there in white light, because white light means all wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation combined into a unity, and thus there is a portion of that totality of electromagnetic radiation that corresponds to the wavelength of red. It is not “virtually” there. It is actually there. It would be like saying that the bricks of a house are “virtually” there in the unity of the house. No, they are actually there. You can pull them apart and examine them. It does not make sense to say that it is “virtual” at all.

    Your reductionism is sneaking in again. The redness is in the white light virtually--otherwise, the white light would be red. This is clearly not the case. Therefore, the other colors exist virtually within white. As Garrigou-Lagrange says, God contains his attributes and so forth in a slightly different way than white contains the other colors, but both are still virtual distinctions.

    Second, if the pre-existent virtual effect is actually there, then it is actually there in the sense that a brick is actually there in the house, or is it actually there in the sense of a power?

    Sort of both and sort of neither. See above.

    But the problem is that a pure white light can only be the exemplar of redness, because it contains redness within it. Redness is already actually there in the white light. It is not a potentiality that has not been actualized. It has been actualized, because if it weren’t, then you wouldn’t have white light at all. But that isn’t what you mean here.

    Red does not compose white light, unless you're dealing with reductionism. Red is virtually within white light before being separated from it: but white light just is white light. White light is not red light with a few other colors added. White light is white light, which virtually contains all other colors.

    So, God cannot be considered to be a cause of creation in actual reality, but only as an intellectual abstraction? So, God does not actually create anything, but we only think that he does? In reality, God is not the creator? Once again, don’t you think that once your theology starts saying things like this, then something has gone horribly wrong?

    Divine impassibility has been part of Christian tradition at least since Augustine, and probably much earlier. Aquinas is saying nothing new, here.

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  78. That makes no sense. If we can say that E is the effect of C, then we can say that C is the cause of E. They are necessarily related. To deny this would be like saying that X loves Y, but Y is not loved by X.

    In God, the relation is logical--not even virtual. Otherwise, God would be changed by his exterior relations, which clearly is not the case. As Hart says:

    "One might even say - as alarming as it may sound - that God does not even need us to be 'our' God; all we are, all we can ever become, is already infinitely and fully present in the inexhaustible beauty, liveliness, and 'virtue' of the Logos, where - as the infinitely perfect reflection of the divine essence that flows forth from the Father, fully enjoyed in the light of the Spirit — it is present already as responsiveness and communion; thus God indeed loved us when we were not, and that he then called us to be (Rom. 4:17) and to participate in the being he pours into us is an act of generosity wholly fitting to, but in no way determinative of, his goodness."

    There is no real relation of God to us, but there is one from us to God. It's just how it works, and it's how Christian tradition operated for well over a millenium.

    To say that God is the creator only “logically”, but not “really”, flies in the face of Scripture, which clearly describes him as the Creator. It does not say, according to our logical categories, which actually do not apply to him in reality. In reality, he is not the Creator. He is only the Creator in our minds. Again, something has gone wrong, no?

    God is our creator in the sense that we were created by him, but that he did not create us, except logically. Patristic tradition did not hold that this contradicted Scripture, and I'd trust their exegeses over most.

    As Aquinas explains in De potentia, "creation is really nothing but a relation of the creature to the Creator together with a beginning of existence." (http://dhspriory.org/thomas/QDdePotentia.htm#3:3)

    It is essential for white light to contain redness. If white light did not contain redness, then it would not be white light, because the essence of white light is to possess all wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum.

    The essence of white light is to be white light, and white light contains all other wavelengths. The wavelengths do not determine or compose white light, but vice versa. Again, you've snuck in some implicit reductionist notions, which are confusing you.

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  79. Thus, esse commune is a logical abstraction of a real distinction. Perhaps it would count as a “virtual distinction”, according to the passages that you cited below. But even so, the bottom line is that, in actual reality, there is a true and real distinction between esse commune and essence that does not only exist in our intellects, and that means that esse commune is a creation of God, which means that it must be composite, because only God, only esse subsistens, is simple. And if esse commune is composite, then my argument holds.

    Esse commune does not exist. There is a real distinction--I don't believe it's even virtual--between actus essendi and essence, but this tells us nothing about the ontological status of esse commune. In truth, each individual actus essendi is totally simple, which is why it is able to accrue to essence in various ways. But it cannot exist apart from essence, which limits and determines it in various ways. God, on the other hand, is an actus essendi that is not limited by anything: ipse actus essendi subsistens, a subsistent act of being.

    So, no. Esse commune is not composite, nor are individual instances of actus essendi composite. It's just that they must be united to composite things in order to be, whereas God is not united to anything.

    Why does this only apply to an “epistemological structure”? Why doesn’t it apply to any theory whatsoever? It seems that you are making an arbitrary distinction here. The bottom line is that any system that necessarily contains something the system considers to be impossible would fall into this scenario.

    It matters because Derrida's epistemological structure was his way of learning about the thing that refuted his epistemological structure. Even if the God of Thomism didn't exist, it would not follow that the structure we used to learn about him was self-refuting. Indeed, I think it's very clear that moderate realism, at the very least, is the only stance on universals that is not self-refuting or incoherent, unlike standard realism, conceptualism and nominalism. Likewise, the four causes are the only coherent way of looking at causality, and natural law is the only moral system that avoids the is-ought problem. None of these things--the scholastic philosophy of nature--would be refuted if God did not exist. On the other hand, differance refutes the entire epistemological structure that Derrida uses to find it, and so it must all be false. This is why it's different.

    But it is only called “unknowable”, because you have reached a contradiction, an absurdity, an impossibility. Otherwise, it would be “knowable” without difficulty.

    This begs the question against supra-rational truths. You assume that they don't exist, but you provide no argument to that effect. God is not unknowable because we can't know how he contains everything--this is not my stance--, but because God is simply above direct logical examination. You might find this troubling, but that is not in itself an argument.

    But to even say it is “above sense” only makes sense if “above sense” is within sense.

    ... what? "Above sense" means that there are things that logic can only hint at. How are they then "within sense"? That doesn't follow.

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  80. Rank:

    You should have read the second link before posting, like I suggested. Doing so would have saved us both a lot of time and energy. The material is from Garrigou-Lagrange, and it solves all of this in a simple form.

    You are right. I commented on it at the other thread at September 14, 2012 9:18 AM. Have a look.

    But here’s a few more comments.

    The virtual distinction is a distinction founded on reality, which means, contrary to Scotus' theory, that it is non-existent previous to the mind's consideration, and it does not destroy God's absolute simplicity.

    How is it “founded in reality”? This is how:

    it is said to be "founded on reality," since the different absolute perfections found in creatures are equivalently expressed in the eminence of the Deity.(42) St. Thomas says expressly: "To the various and multiplied conceptions of our intellect there corresponds one altogether simple principle, according to these conceptions, imperfectly understood." (43) The eminence of the Deity is most simple, but it is virtually multiple, and all absolutely simple perfections are contained in it formally and eminently.

    Again, you have multiplicity as understood by our intellect, and the question is whether this multiplicity is actually present in a metaphysically simple God. Your position is that it is “virtually” present, and the status of this “virtually” is what is being debated here.

    Interestingly, when he writes that “all absolutely simple perfections are contained in [God] formally and eminently”, this is what he writes about “eminently”: “How the perfections are contained is mysterious; but the divine attributes are so identified in the most eminent and formal concept of the Deity as not to be destroyed by it. They are contained formally in it, and yet they are not formally distinct. In fact, they are found in their purest state, without any imperfection, only in the Deity.”

    So, you have a multiplicity of perfect divine attributes that are distinct from one another, which are contained within a metaphysically simple God. How this actually happens is declared to be a “mystery”. If there was a clear argument in favor of this idea, then it would be offered, but since there isn’t any, he just throws his hands in the air and says the whole thing is a “mystery”, which just amounts to giving up on any way to resolve the contradiction. The only other details that he offers is that the diverse and distinct divine attributes are present within God’s essence in some way “as not to be destroyed by it”. Furthermore, while they are within God’s essence, they are “not formally distinct”. This begs the question of how you can have multiple forms that are not formally distinct – i.e. multiplicity presupposes distinction and diversity, and to negate formal distinction means that you have negated multiplicity, and thus there is not a multiplicity of divine attributes at all, but only one -- and it seems that the matter is just papered over with the declaration that it is a “mystery”.

    Furthermore, he writes that the divine attributes are “formally distinct from one another”, which seems to flatly contradict when he earlier wrote that they “are contained formally in it, and yet they are not formally distinct”. So, either they are formally distinct or they are not formally distinct. I don’t know which.

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  81. He then argues that the distinction between the divine attributes are contained in God is a minor virtual distinction, which he describes as “not of the nature of excluding and excluded, but of implicit and explicit”, which depends upon who’s perspective one is taking. If one takes our perspective, then our conception of God’s nature is such that it contains the divine attributes “actually and implicitly”, and what is implicit in God’s nature becomes explicit when we utilize discursive and deductive reasoning. If one takes God’s perspective, then God’s nature contains the divine attributes “actually and explicitly”, because there is nothing hidden in God from God. All that God is, God knows, because his knowledge is his existence.

    I really do not know how this is supposed to help. It is all just multiple iterations of the same basic idea. There are multiple forms in God’s intellect, but they can’t be distinct, because distinction implies diversity, and diversity implies composition, which is impossible in a metaphysically simple being. This is obviously a problem, and so to solve it, the multiplicity of distinct forms is declared to be present in God’s intellect “virtually”. What does this mean? Namely, this: that there is “actually” a multiplicity of distinct forms in God’s intellect that is “grounded in reality”, but also simultaneously “non-existent previous to the mind's consideration”, and this somehow happens in such a way as to “not destroy God's absolute simplicity”, which ultimately is declared a “mystery”.

    How could it not be clear?

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  82. Oh, and just to let you know, I'm taking the kids out of town, and won't have access to a computer. I'll get back to your comments afterwards, probably around Monday.

    Check back then! Hope you have a good weekend. Take a break from this stuff and relax!

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  83. So, you have a multiplicity of perfect divine attributes that are distinct from one another, which are contained within a metaphysically simple God. How this actually happens is declared to be a “mystery”.

    That's not the mystery. If it was, then Garrigou-Lagrange could appeal to the white light example and explain it away. Remember: white light is not determined by the things that it virtually contains, nor is it composed of them. Other forms of light are not its matter: it is their equivocal cause. Hence, it virtually contains everything but is not those things. This is almost exactly how God operates, and, clearly, it cannot be said that this is anything but simplicity and non-composition.

    The mystery to which Garrigou-Lagrange is referring is something more convoluted. This is the key quote: "these seven colors are only virtually present in whiteness, whereas the divine perfections are formally distinct from one another. For, whereas whiteness is not blue, one and true are predicated of the Deity."

    What he is saying is that, unlike the colors within white light, God may be identified directly with ideas such as "one-ness" and "truth". The idea is that the white light contains blue but does not look blue, while God contains truth and is truth. Is this a real problem, or has Garrigou-Lagrange merely made a mistake? I would say that white light could be called "ideal blue" and "ideal red", just as God could be called "ideal truth" and "ideal beauty". This is because being contains all perfections virtually--everything that is good is that way because it has or imitates being--, and God is esse subsistens, which means that his being contains beauty, truth, nobility and goodness inseparably. Therefore, God ideal truth because he is ideal being. Likewise, white light might be called ideal redness because it is ideal light. This does not seem to violate Aquinas's beliefs--but perhaps Garrigou-Lagrange has a good reason for arguing with it.

    He then argues that the distinction between the divine attributes are contained in God is a minor virtual distinction, which he describes as “not of the nature of excluding and excluded, but of implicit and explicit”, which depends upon who’s perspective one is taking. If one takes our perspective, then our conception of God’s nature is such that it contains the divine attributes “actually and implicitly”, and what is implicit in God’s nature becomes explicit when we utilize discursive and deductive reasoning. If one takes God’s perspective, then God’s nature contains the divine attributes “actually and explicitly”, because there is nothing hidden in God from God.

    I would return to the white light example, which also seems to be a minor virtual distinction. "Implicit and explicit" seems closer than "excluding and excluded", because white light is never excluded: it is always present as an equivocal cause of redness in other things, and it contains an implicit redness that seems explicit on consideration (of its wavelengths, etc.).

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  84. It is all just multiple iterations of the same basic idea. There are multiple forms in God’s intellect, but they can’t be distinct, because distinction implies diversity, and diversity implies composition, which is impossible in a metaphysically simple being. This is obviously a problem, and so to solve it, the multiplicity of distinct forms is declared to be present in God’s intellect “virtually”. What does this mean? Namely, this: that there is “actually” a multiplicity of distinct forms in God’s intellect that is “grounded in reality”, but also simultaneously “non-existent previous to the mind's consideration”, and this somehow happens in such a way as to “not destroy God's absolute simplicity”, which ultimately is declared a “mystery”.

    Again, the "mystery" is not what you think it is.

    Further, just as the redness in whiteness is non-existent prior to consideration, it is still within whiteness implicitly, which is why whiteness can be the equivocal cause of redness. This does not seem in any way mysterious to me. If I am right, then God operates along similar lines, and so is not subject to a logical contradiction.

    Oh, and just to let you know, I'm taking the kids out of town, and won't have access to a computer. I'll get back to your comments afterwards, probably around Monday.

    Check back then! Hope you have a good weekend. Take a break from this stuff and relax!


    Sounds good. And I'll try.

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  85. Just wanted to cite something I just read as I was finishing Wippel's book that I thought would be pertinent here:

    "whatever perfection is found in an effect must be present in its efficient cause, either according to the same intelligible content if that agent is univocal with its effect, or more eminently if the agent is equivocal. Even in the latter case the effect must preexist in the cause virtually, which is to say that the agent has the power to produce it. This is for the effect to preexist not in a more imperfect way, but in one that is more perfect. Therefore, concludes Thomas, because God is the first efficient cause of all else, the perfections of all things must preexist in him in preeminent fashion" (Ibid., p. 573).

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  86. While Wippel has my respect--he is a very good Aquinas scholar--I'm going to defer to Garrigou-Lagrange on this point, since his reputation among Thomists is almost akin to Gilson's. Perhaps Wippel was speaking in shorthand there--if you took his phrasing literally, he would be saying this:

    1. In order to cause the effect, the cause must in some sense contain the effect.
    2. The effect exists within the cause virtually.
    3. For the cause to possess the effect virtually is for it to have a power to produce that effect.

    "The cause can cause the effect because the cause can cause the effect." This tautology explains nothing. I'm just going to assume that Wippel wasn't going into the full details of virtual possession, because, given the mentions of virtuality in Aquinas and Garrigou-Lagrange, his account taken literally is clearly wrong.

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  87. Rank:

    Let’s focus upon this idea of “virtual distinction”. It seems that you are claiming that virtual distinction protects God’s metaphysical simplicity from his possession of a multiplicity of distinct forms, which superficially at least, seems to be a contradiction. Your claim is that in order for there to be a contradiction, there must be simplicity and composition, in the same sense, and the simplicity of God is real whereas the multiplicity is virtual, and thus you cannot have a contradiction between real simplicity and virtual multiplicity.

    I’ve been mulling over this idea on various occasions over the weekend, and have come up with a few responses to it. Let me know what you think.

    First, it is my understanding that divine simplicity is supposed to be due to God’s absolute simplicity. In other words, God’s simplicity is supposed to lack any and all types of composition. The fact that it has virtual composition seems to negate that, and thus he does have one kind of composition after all, which means that he is not absolutely simple, but only relatively so. Another indication of this is that he has a distinction between real simplicity and virtual composition, which means that he is composed of real simplicity and virtual composition, which means that he has composition after all, but in another way.

    Second, it seems that the virtual, and thus implicit, possession of a multiplicity of forms is closely akin to potentiality, which is probably why Wippel basically identified the two as the same thing. To have the potential to do X means to have X in a pre-existent and virtual fashion, and when X goes from pre-existent and virtual X to actual X, then the potentiality has been actualized. If that is the case, then it seems that if God has multiple forms an in implicit and virtual fashion, and implicit and virtual forms would necessarily be a kind of potentiality, then it follows that God himself must contain a kind of potentiality, which would compromise his state of being pure actuality.

    Third, in order for F to be a virtual and pre-existent form, F must be implicit, and not be explicit. An implicit F is a pre-existent and virtual F, and an explicit F is a real F. After all, you have argued that a virtual distinction is not a real distinction, and actually is essentially unreal until it is made explicit by an intellect. This becomes a problem when it comes to God, because it would be impossible for a pre-existent and virtual F to be implicit to God’s intellect. Nothing is implicit to God, and that must include his pre-existent and virtual forms. In other words, they must all be explicit to him, and thus cannot possibly be virtual, and instead must be real. If that is correct, then they are not virtually distinct, but really distinct, and thus there is a real composition in God.

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  88. Fourth, if God cannot have real distinctions, but only virtual distinctions, then the distinction between the persons of the Trinity are necessarily virtual distinctions. In other words, until they are conceived by an intellect, they are “non-existent”. Does that mean that until a created intellect conceives of them, the persons of the Trinity remain “non-existent”, and only afterwards become “actually” distinct? But, that would imply temporality and change in God, which is impossible, i.e. non-existent X becomes actual X in God. But if the persons of the Trinity cannot change their ontological status in this way, then the distinction between them is necessarily either eternally “non-existent” or “actual”. Both of these possiblities pose huge problems for the Trinity. If the distinction between the persons in the Trinity is eternally “non-existent”, then it is not “grounded in reality” at all, which is a condition of virtual distinction, and thus it cannot be a virtual distinction at all, which means that it is a real distinction, and which means there is composition in God. And if the distinction between the persons in the Trinity is eternally “actual”, then it is a real distinction, and there is composition in God.

    Given these problems, it seems that the doctrine of virtual distinction (a) still implies a kind of composition to an absolutely simple being, which is supposed to be absolutely simple and not relatively simple, (b) implies that a purely actual being necessarily has potentiality within him, (c) that in God, it is impossible for there to be any virtual distinction whatsoever, given the fact that there is no such thing as implicit to God’s intellect, and (d) that it makes you either give up any distinction between the different persons in the Trinity or divine simplicity.

    If this critique is correct, then the doctrine of virtual distinction does not save the problem of a metaphysically simple being possessing a multiplicity of forms within itself, and for a number of reasons. If that is true, then there is still a genuine contradiction at the heart of Thomism, which has not yet been resolved.

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  89. I posted the above on the divine intellect thread. Maybe just comment on it there from here on so we can increase the exposure of our debate. Maybe other people will be able to contribute.

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  90. dguller,

    Sounds good. Excellent criticisms--I'll head over to the other combox and see what I can do.

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  91. I have a quick question. Your justification of intelligence being immaterial is in its irreducibility to physical matter, imagination, etc. But does irreducibility necessarily imply a nonphysical nature? For you have elsewhere argued that intention likewise is not reducible to physical matter, but undoubtedly animals are intentional and material. What makes saying 'intelligence is irreducible to physical matter' thus synonymous with saying 'intelligence is immaterial' if we have arguments where irreducibility does not imply immateriality?

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