However, in an
interview with The Pillar yesterday,
the archbishop was asked whether the DDF would move away from its traditional
role in safeguarding doctrine, and he answered:
Look, if you read the pope's letter
carefully, it is clear that at no time does he say that the function of
refuting errors should disappear.
Obviously, if someone says that Jesus
is not a real man or that all immigrants should be killed, that will require
strong intervention.
But at the same time, that
[intervention] can be an opportunity to grow, to enrich our understanding.
For example, in those cases, it would
be necessary to accompany that person in their legitimate intention to better
show the divinity of Jesus Christ, or it will be necessary to talk about some
imperfect, incomplete or problematic immigration legislation.
In the letter, the pope says very
explicitly that the dicastery has to “guard” the teaching of the Church. Only that at the same time – and this is his
right – he asks me for a greater commitment to help the development of thought,
such as when difficult questions arise, because growth is more effective than
control.
Heresies were eradicated better and
faster when there was adequate theological development, and they spread and
perpetuated when there were only condemnations.
But Francis also asks me to help
collect the recent magisterium, and this evidently includes his own. It is part of what must be “guarded.”
End
quote. It is only just to acknowledge
that these words clearly state that the DDF’s traditional function of rebutting
“possible doctrinal errors” will not
be abandoned. All well and good.
However, these
new comments make the significance of the earlier ones I quoted in my previous
article less clear, not more. For the
pope and the archbishop indicated that they want the DDF to operate in a way that
is “very different” from the way it has operated in recent decades. But if the DDF is going to continue with its “function
of refuting errors,” including “strong intervention” to rebut those who promote
such errors, how does that differ from how the CDF operated in recent decades?
Presumably
the answer has to do with an emphasis on “accompanying” the person guilty of
the errors, rather than “only condemnations.”
But this too is not in fact a departure from the way the CDF operated
under prefects like cardinals Ratzinger, Levada, Müller, and Ladaria. For example, though Ratzinger was caricatured
in the liberal press as a “panzer cardinal,” that is the opposite of how he
actually ran the CDF. As he
complained in 1988:
The mythical harshness of the Vatican
in the face of the deviations of the progressives is shown to be mere empty
words. Up until now, in fact, only
warnings have been published; in no case have there been strict canonical
penalties in the strict sense.
For instance,
theologian Edward Schillebeeckx was investigated by the CDF under Ratzinger,
for Schillebeeckx’s dubious Christological opinions – precisely the sort of
thing Archbishop Fernandez offers as an example of an error the DDF should deal
with. But Schillebeeckx was given the
opportunity to explain and defend his views, and his books were never
condemned. More famously, Hans Küng lost
his license to teach Catholic theology because of his heterodox views on papal
infallibility and other matters. But he continued
teaching at the same university and remained a priest in good standing. So far was he from being “condemned” by the
Church that one of Ratzinger’s first acts after being elected Pope Benedict XVI
was to invite Küng over for a friendly dinner and theological conversation.
In reality,
the person dealt with most harshly by the CDF under Ratzinger was not a
progressive, but rather someone with whom Ratzinger was accused of being too
sympathetic – namely, the traditionalist Archbishop Lefebvre, who was excommunicated
in 1988. And it is precisely
traditionalists whom Pope
Francis has also dealt with most harshly during his own pontificate. Indeed, Pope Francis’s treatment of
traditionalists seems the reverse of what Archbishop Fernandez characterizes as
an “accompanying” rather than “condemning” approach.
Hence, while
the archbishop’s most recent remarks are welcome, they make the import of his
earlier remarks, and the pope’s, murkier rather than clearer. In any event, if a patient and charitable
approach to dealing with doctrinal disputes is what the archbishop is after,
then Pope
Benedict XVI in fact provided a model to emulate rather than abandon. And Pope Francis too provides something of a
roadmap, insofar as he
has many times said that he welcomes respectful criticism.
Archbishop Fernandez ends the interview by asking for prayers as he takes up his new post, and makes clear that he would be “grateful” for the prayers of his critics no less than those of his supporters. It would be most contrary to justice and charity for anyone to refuse this humble request, and I happily offer up my own prayers for the archbishop.
This is an offtopic remark, but today (July 18) marks the 700th anniversary of St. Thomas Aquinas's Canonization by Pope John XXII. Let's pray for his intercession for these trying times!
ReplyDeleteI sympathize with the predicament in which practicing Roman Catholics now find themselves.
ReplyDeleteTrying to charitably parse the verbal emissions of a crew of already and justifiably highly suspicious operatives as they attempt to reassure the paying faithful that they are not really saying what they are plainly saying, and that the faithful are not seeing what they are really seeing - such as effen idols in the Vatican garden - must be exhausting.
However, despite my own lack of interest in and patience with theological talk and mumbling men in general, I did in fact listen to about 2/3rds of that Loftus character's attempt to Fisk your presentation of Newman's views; and all I learned is that the guy is clearly no logician as he does not recognize the plainest implications of his own bloody concessions. His argument conceding that the "college of bishops" during the Arian controversy was in fact largely not exercising their duty, but that somehow "the organ" itself was, because of a number of faithful bishops is just too, too, bloody much Emperor's New Clothes wanking. Talk about parasitic imputations of virtue.
And then there's his absurd criticism of those who still bring up Pope Frankie's failure to answer the Dubia, because man, like, you gotta keep up with the latest developments and trends and nuances and not be like some Protestant preacher cat who has never gotten with it ... And even if Frankie never answered directly, why he (by another pathetic Loftus imputation, not implication) did anyway because ... events ... and comments... elsewhere, and only one question was worthy and relevant anyway ... and and and.
So the upshot is that according to Loftus, Frankie gets to enjoy his rude unPapal petulance, and to be absolved of it too, because as I said ... excuses and events.
Look, it's up to you guys to work it out and place your trust in whatever wan hopes or spiritual convictions you find personally compelling - concerning what appears to be a contemptible hierarchy of pseudo-males largely in apostasy.
But when I see a gliding, wan smiling, sly-eyed, double talking crypto-sodomite blathering on from a post-rupture hermeneutic position, all I see is a gliding, wan smiling, sly-eyed double talking... etc., and not some misunderstood disciple of Jesus whose pastoral emphasis has been misconstrued by those with insufficient charity in their hearts.
"Heal me with your mouth, darling?
Or
"Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever"?
Hard to believe that these people believe the latter.
Do yourself, and me who you owe absolutely nothing, a favor. Forget about replying to that Loftus character. He does not deserve it. Nor do any of his mealy mouthed pettifogging, logically deficient kind.
WCB
Deleteif a liberal pope is elected, the Catholic conservatives squeal and shriek. If a conservative pope is elected the liberal Catholics howl and shriek. If a moderate pope is elected the conservatives and the liberals shriek and complain. And the Holy g
Ghost don't say nothing.
WCB
You are correct in that incorrect grammar of yours. A double negative is a positive. When you say the Holy "don't say nothing" you in fact affirm that the Holy Spirit does speak.
DeleteThe Church has taught and still does teach that the Holy Spirit speaks truth through those who love Him. He does not speak through shrieks and howls, but he speaks always the Truth, forcefully and truthfully, through His Church, and where He wills. If you don't hear his voice, if you ask God to open your ears, you may begin to understand His existence and His works.
" ... if a liberal pope is elected, the Catholic conservatives squeal and shriek. If a conservative pope is elected the liberal Catholics howl and shriek. If a moderate pope is elected the conservatives and the liberals shriek and complain. And the Holy g
DeleteGhost don't say nothing.
WCB
What's any of that got to do with you? You should probably thank your Mother Gaia that they have been conditioned to think in terms of "one Humanity" by their faith. Because if you are right pal ...
Lofton's primary critique is fair. Feser's claim that the papal teaching is primarily through the DDF (which his case rested on) is just false. That's the exceptional case.
DeleteAs for whether Pope Francis has answered the dubia, 4 out of 5 of the questions are answered in Amoris Laetitia (the 5th was later responded to), as Lofton points out. Obviously, the point of the questions was to get *further* clarification, which referring back to Amoris Laetitia doesn't do. It seems to accuse those behind the dubia of deliberating refusing to understand (or pretend not to understand), which is where Lofton get's things wrong.
But, Lofton's primary critique is correct, I believe.
@ WCB:
DeleteThe "WC" part stands for how cr*ppy most of your thoughts are?
Intelligent people howl and shriek when confronted with so much inanity.
Just listening to Lofton. It's ridiculous. He reads all kinds of portentous meaning into the phrase "organ of the magisterium," and the CDF as an example of it, that I did not assert and not intend, Then he goes on to criticize this straw man. Guess I now have to waste time writing a response to this silly hot take.
Delete"Just listening to Lofton. It's ridiculous. He reads all kinds of portentous meaning into the phrase "organ of the magisterium," and the CDF as an example of it, that I did not assert and not intend, Then he goes on to criticize this straw man. Guess I now have to waste time writing a response to this silly hot take."
DeleteHe's trying to ride your coattails into a position of significance by ginning up and inflating chickensxit objections and arguments.
You put so many provisos, conditionals, and carefully hedged and tentative propositions into your post, that I am surprised that they are not shrieking that you were being "lawyerly".
Insofar as the CDF being termed a "main" organ of the magisterium, rather than an important one, or some other formulation of its historical functions - one of which Francis seems to associate with enforcement, what's the problem? Ok, so it was perhaps, maybe, too casual an employment of an adjective to describe its non extraordinary workings? Well if so, what the blazes was it popularly taken to be? Meaning, what was the function of the office assumed to be by pewsitters; and by all appearances probably almost everyone else?
The defining issue - apart from the idols and faeries found nesting in the Vatican garden - is that tender, compassionate, merciful Pope Francis, could not be bothered to bestir his imperious and reputedly vindictive ass into some semblance of pastoral solicitude for his own Cardinals and the millions of other perturbed and dismayed Catholics who hopefully awaited his direct response.
Turns out that his non-answer was an answer, as everyone soon enough realized. It was as they say, a big and deliberate, and pridefully smug "thread you" to those who dared to seek a straight answer.
Gregory the Great, this guy aint.
And what does Lofton do? He busies himself by frantically
picking flychit out of pepper ... as a generation of men greater than the current, were wont to describe it.
Nice work if you can get it. And to get it, he seems determined to try.
Could God have simply given everyone The Beatific Vision immediately, with no prerequisite "probationary period" if he so willed?
ReplyDeleteWCB
DeleteEzekiel 27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Yes, and God stated he would do exactly that. With The Great Commission, God could have made all mankind perfect Christians. And so much for free will arguments.
WCB
@ WCB:
DeleteIs your ability to copy-paste like a lemming a direct result of evolutionary pressures or is it just an unintended spandrel?
"The prayers of a righteous man availeth much."
ReplyDelete"Obviously, if someone says that Jesus is not a real man or that all immigrants should be killed, that will require strong intervention."
ReplyDeleteI know that this man is terribly busy and that everyone wants him to comment on this and that, but I still found these two off-the-cuff examples to be rather peculiar. The first has long been settled and is hardly worth the time of the CDF/DDF, but the second...? It is not only a bizarre thought (more of a caricature than a serious idea) but also not the purview of his dicastery. I'd like to attribute his thought processes to tiredness or being distracted, but I'm more prone to wonder if he'll be commenting more on social questions and legislation than on doctrinal issues. That would reflect the apparent trend of late to use papal influence to weigh in on frothy headlines while ignoring matters of grave concern to the vitality of the Church.
But remember, the bizarre, insane, utterly unserious hypothetical "plan to kill all immigrants" would, in this man's view, not just be a "plan to kill all immigrants." It would also be presumed by this man, or so he claims, to be a "legitimate" -- albeit "imperfect, incomplete, or problematic" -- a "legitimate intention to better show the divinity of Jesus Christ." Isn't that lovely? And remember, this is the domain of theology, so sometimes (when it's convenient for these people) 2+2=5.
DeleteYou misread it. That legitimate concern was of the one who denied Christ's humanity.
DeleteNope. I read it (and re-read it) right. You misread it.
Delete(spottedmetal, unable to log in)
DeleteDid we, now?
"Obviously, if someone says [a] that Jesus is not a real man or [b] that all immigrants should be killed, that will require strong intervention.
......
"For example, in those cases, it would be necessary to accompany that person in their [a] legitimate intention to better show the divinity of Jesus Christ, or it will be necessary to talk about [b] some imperfect, incomplete or problematic immigration legislation."
My interpretation both makes sense of the order of phrases (i.e., [a] and [b] match sequentially in both paragraphs), and has the author making better logical sense (in that denying that Jesus is a real man might plausibly be thought to be part of a case to better show his divinity, and the idea that all immigrants should be killed has some logical connection to bad immigration legislation).
I am tempted to ask what is the basis of your interpretation, though I am rather afraid that the issue is not really worth further discussion. Maybe you're assuming he's overtly illogical, but if I can read anyone in a way that makes logical sense, I'd prefer to do that.
Ah, I see. I misread it twice then. My bad. Thanks for explaining.
DeleteSo instead I might have said: The bizarre, insane, utterly unserious hypothetical "plan to kill all immigrants" would, in this man's view, be merely "imperfect, incomplete, or problematic" (really now!?); and a denial of the claim that "Jesus is a real man" would be viewed as a "legitimate intention to better show the divinity of Jesus Christ." Isn't that (and that) lovely? And remember, this is the domain of theology, so sometimes (when it's convenient for these overtly unserious, mealy-mouthed people) 2+2=5.
As for assumptions about being overtly illogical, I think my misreading was more a matter of missing the grammatical, not logical construction (insofar as the grammatical precedes the logical). As for how to assess 'overt illogicality' in this case, I guess that's a trickier matter. But the examples he gives are at least overtly bizarre and unserious as are his mealy-mouthed claims about the "necessary accompaniment" required in each case.
Okay, I'll pray for Tucho and for Bergoglio, certainly, specifically that they accept the grace to convert to the othodox, truly Catholic faith. For whatever else they are, they're not Catholics.
ReplyDeleteThey are Catholics. If you reject them, then you are in schism. Please, return to the faith, Crow.
DeleteMr Con, what exactly amounts to "reject(ing) them"?
DeleteProf. Feser,
ReplyDeleteHave you watched Michael Lofton's response video to you? He argues that you completely misread Pope Francis' letter and misunderstand what the DFF is (i.e. it's not an organ of the Magisterium, for one thing; it has no authority of its own). It's a good watch.
Traditionally, the Prefect and the Secretary are bishops. (Also the other full members are, as well.) These men have "authority of their own" to teach. When they teach, the Magisterium teaches. Traditionally, the Prefect and the Secretary are bishops precisely because, as bishops, they participate in the magisterial office. It is not a mere accident or historical anomaly that the Congregation has (is filled with) bishops. When the Congregation doesn't speak with the pope's own authority, it automatically speaks with the magisterial authority of its members, with this detail: (a) they speak together, in concert, by deliberated agreement, and (b) they speak with the heightened authority of men selected by the pope to deliberate and speak on his behalf. These attributes, while they do not make the bishops' remarks "papal" as such, it makes them carry somewhat more authority than JUST that "a bishop taught X".
DeleteTo assert that the Congregation "has no authority of its own" without clarifying the above appears (to me) to represent either seriously neglectful, or intentionally misleading obfuscation.
Generous comment.
ReplyDeleteNo, I don't, and probably shouldn't. I'm just an ordinary Joe who took a few relevant courses in school back in the day, and whose interests and knowledge except in a couple of domains is modest at best.
I usually find myself readdressing the same themes over and over again philosophically, and have been stuck on "The Problem of Universals" since my college days.
But you know, that subject was originally, and I think that it remains, perhaps the core or root, if one prefers, question not only of philosophy and ethics, but by extension, almost everything else that we find ourselves contending over.
Thank goodness there is in Ed Feser at least one accessible philosopher who can look the question straight in the eye, and not blink at the real life-implications of the various conclusions one draws.
Unlike say, the armchair moral nihilists who don't really expect anyone to walk up behind and cap them because, you know, to do so is not "really" wrong.
And I'll always be grateful to him for reminding me that it was Meinong, and not a strawman that Russell was tilting against. LOL
agreed!
ReplyDeleteI wonder to what extent such problems are caused by many people working in the Vatican being diplomats or "amateur diplomats". The, it is only natural that they are tempted to try to use diplomacy to solve all possible problems. And so, they try "listening", negotiation, offering concessions, looking for common interests and emphasising them, signing agreements etc. (Just as, let's say, apologists might be tempted to try to use arguments to persuade people, even when it becomes clear that they won't achieve anything in the specific case.)
ReplyDeleteIt is unfortunate that pretty much all the main problems they are dealing with (many people being only nominal Catholics, war in Ukraine, persecutions of the Church in China) seem to be especially unsuitable for this approach... Of course, problems that are suitable for this approach are probably solved by now.
Maybe, when Popes controlled larger territories, the diplomats were balanced by people who, for example, dealt with criminals?
And, maybe "very different" approach might mean merely "very different from the approach the others thought to exist"?
At the very least, that looks like one of explanations that might make it easier to avoid rash judgement...
That hand pose reminds me of Mr. Burns from The Simpsons.
ReplyDeleteCareful with replying to Lofton. He's not being genuine. His responses in the comments are copy/paste replies with no intention of ever interacting in a sincere way. He lets his commenters have at the object of his ire. Then he'll make comments along the lines of "I tried inviting so and so on my show but they said they didn't like my attitude".... he parroted the exact same phrase for Peter Kwasnieski and some other more orthodox Catholic. I'm no supporter of Br. Diamond. But Diamond had Lofton scurrying to cut the debate short. The funniest thing from him was a video a few years back where he starts with essentially saying how let down he is with his viewers for not being immediately snowed over with whatever issue he was insisting that his view was correct on.
ReplyDeleteJust keep in mind that, with 10 years of data collected from PF and his cronies, we can be pretty sure that when PF says "accompany the marginalized" he DOES mean that with respect to people who feel marginalized because they believe some heresy, and they haven't been "feelin' the love" from people who know it's heresy; and he does not mean it about people who believe all that the Church has taught through the ages. DDT (yes, the chemical) will be the "organ" of choice used for the trads who just want to have a Church that teaches the truth. So, in the old days it was the "Holy Office" or the "Congregation", but now it will be the DDT. Squishy and Toucho-feely if you are a heretic or apostate, but napalm if you are trad.
ReplyDelete