tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post8214589331729146135..comments2024-03-28T13:39:03.094-07:00Comments on Edward Feser: Aristotle on the middle classEdward Feserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-36866743350069907072022-07-15T01:10:37.419-07:002022-07-15T01:10:37.419-07:00Fair Enough. Many reviewers including the Canadian...Fair Enough. Many reviewers including the Canadian Lad felt that the movie didn't allow Thor to be serious, that the movie was too fast paced and didn't give Christian Bale enough screen time. I agree with those criticisms to a certain extent. For me though certain themes or aspects like the dynamic of love and loss between Thor and Jane, the way in which it touches upon the fact that you can't escape the reality of death,Thor after everything he has lost,finding hope in his life by caring for Gorr's daughter "Love", born of eternity , Love requiring sacrifice (in this case quite literally, since Gorr's daughter's name was love) was enough to move me. Also the scene of Thor bestowing his power on the children was quite awesome to see especially if think about it in the context of Thor at one point in the MCU being unworthy of that power precisely because he was high headed now being mature enough to share that power with helpless children so that they may reach home. I also think with regards to the seriousness charge, it may have been done on purpose since Gorr in a certain sense is antithetical to Thor, Gorr upon having lost everything became serious and vengeful, while Thor upon having lost everything became contemplative and soul searching,I think that because of the way in which the first phase ended, people expect every film to be that dramatic and grand in it's implications, but it takes a bit of patience and stumbling to get all the pieces in place for the grand finale as traditional comic book fans would attest to.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561526052876064805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-84417417729893681702022-07-14T20:09:17.478-07:002022-07-14T20:09:17.478-07:00I can't really speak for Prof. Feser, but I...I can't really speak for Prof. Feser, but I'm almost positive he does not think of himself as "getting old." <br />Craig Paynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-33321565537235989932022-07-14T20:07:14.785-07:002022-07-14T20:07:14.785-07:00(1) "sound like cult members in need of depro...(1) "sound like cult members in need of deprogramming, and certainly of electoral defeat."<br /><br />Certainly true. If only the opposition had an articulate, principled spokesperson not associated in any way with former president Trump. Any nominations?<br /><br />(2) "Thor Was Awesome!!"<br /><br />I guess we have to agree to disagree. There aren't many movies which make me want to disavow an entire genre, but the most recent Thor movie has turned me off from any desire for more Marvel movies.<br />Craig Paynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-82401922512186107302022-07-09T04:17:15.061-07:002022-07-09T04:17:15.061-07:00Yes, and I think it is the case for authoritarian ...Yes, and I think it is the case for authoritarian leaders in general. In his Social Contract, Rousseau J-J followed Aristotle in that respect, and the methods he wanted to adopt for government were aimed at avoiding the most affluent and the least ones from taking power.Deus exemplohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10757960308618913676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-55882750404207472402022-07-08T06:26:56.219-07:002022-07-08T06:26:56.219-07:00Thor Was Awesome!! Can't help but notice how a...Thor Was Awesome!! Can't help but notice how a central theme plot in both the recent marvel movies is the purpose and meaning kids bring to one's life. Obviously these movies were planned more then a year back, but it's almost like fate would have them release at such a poignant time. Thor almost had me tearing up at some points. That's quite rare for a Taika Watiti movie. But then again marvel themes always had a way of touching upon the most meaningful aspects of the human condition, so it's hard to deviate too far from the source material without losing out crucial aspects of the characters. RIP Stan Lee.That's what made someone like Spiderman stand out as opposed to Superman. This movie also provides a wonderful case in point study for discussions on Theistic Personalism and Classical Theism, Problem of Evil etc, definitely a must watch and worth a blog post.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561526052876064805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-9667082449119311552022-07-04T05:28:55.495-07:002022-07-04T05:28:55.495-07:00Nice post Prof.Feser. Speaking of laws though, Doe...Nice post Prof.Feser. Speaking of laws though, Does anyone have any strategy for proponents of Pro-Life legislation going forward with regards to forming laws, specifying exceptions etc. There is a very recent case of the 10 year old girl who was assaulted and got pregnant as a result but was denied an abortion in Ohio, I guess she then had to go to Indianna. There is a lot of outrage coming from the left with regards to this and it's gaining a lot of traction but I haven't seen any prominent pro-life figure or commentator offer any take on it besides the African commentator Obianuju Ekeocha . Atleast some pro-life tak,e like loving both the baby and the mom seems called for but it seems like no one wants to suffer any political or popular backlash. I think we have to formulate some response to this in general, because the average person in general can't help but feel for the child and are more likely to allow for the abortion in this case. Silence on the matter by prominent pro life figures will only cause the people in the middle to move more towards the pro-abortion lobby and hence cause this win to be very short-lived because it would seem as if pro-lifers don't have any answers . It also seems as if most states are going with the 6 fetal heart beat bans, this already seems to be a kind of concession given that, consistently speaking, life begins at conception, but it must have been done keeping in mind political considerations, Florida which is a bit more liberal is planning a 12-14 week ban I think. Such concessions may be necessary in a political reality, so it would be better if we had some general principles for these exceptions and concessions. I also think in general, that this is a good time to re-visit some intra-catholic debates with regards to saving the life of the mother, exemplified by the New Natural Law vs Classical Natural Law debates with respect to Craniotomy etc. The last comprehensive treatment of something like this seems to be in Professor Kaczor's book the Ethics of Abortion where he covered the craniotomy debate from both angles ultimately not coming to any settled conclusion. The craniotomy procedure is extremely rarely required statistically speaking but it presents a good case study to consider various moral principles and clarify terms such as moral object etc. Personally with respect to craniotomy, I tend to incline more towards classical natural law as a theory, so I am a bit uncomfortable with it it as a procedure but some time back Pope Benedict XVI commissioned a study on it by Fr Martin Rhonheimer and BXVI wouldn't have done so if it was a settled issue, so it seems open to speculation. Also there are certain issues that seem to be raised given current events, for example a pre-pubescent child's body isn't ready for the act of delivery rifled with n number of complications and could potentially kill the child, Could one consider it under the exception of saving the mother's life. I don't know. Also questions should the legal exceptions to saving the mother's life based on the more narrow catholic definitions of it or broader pro-life definitions, Here I am thinking of the case a few years back where a nun was suspended for sanctioning the termination of a pregnancy to save the mother's life, which evoked a lot of inta catholic debate. I remember Fr Thomas Berg debated this with Fr Kevin Flannery. Although Fr Thomas Berg eventually came to agree with Fr Flannery. I think Grisez also tentatively considered the possibility of permissibility in cases of rape but the arguments he put forth in favour of it being permissible seem untenable to me. Nevertheless we exist in a time where some of the greatest thomists and catholic minds on different sides of these issues are alive and practicing their trade eg:- Dr Feser, Dr Robert P George, Fr Stephen Brock, Fr Kevin Flannery, Dr Chris Kaczor, Prof Budziszewski, Dr Steven Jensen, Prof Charles Camosy, Dr Ryan T Anderson and many others, but they are getting old as well so now is a good as a time forever to have these discussions.<br />Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561526052876064805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-56991189081076243382022-07-03T14:53:28.115-07:002022-07-03T14:53:28.115-07:00The "potential" refers to something that...The "potential" refers to something that IS, i.e. it's potential to be <i>something that it is not now</i>. That's what the <b>matter</b> is, for a matter-form being: the matter of a rabbit has the potential to be the matter of the wolf. The form of a substantial being doesn't EXIST before the being exists, waiting for matter, so it doesn't "have the potential" to become (the form of) the being. The form is the form of the being <i>when the being itself starts to exist</i>. We don't need to speak of there being "a potential" for the form to exist. <br /><br />It would be better, perhaps, to say that there is a "possibility" of the form existing (because there is a possibility of an event happening wherein an agent cause will cause the thing to exist), but nobody thinks that that "a possibility of an event happening" is some THING that inheres in, say, the agent. After all, it is possible for God to create some new thing from nothing, but that possibility is not an existing thing, and so it is not a <i>potency of</i> such a thing. <br /><br />It also seems like a mistake to ask "what (prior) stuff does the form come from", since the (prior) stuff is precisely the point of <b>matter</b>, i.e. the material principle, not the formal principle. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-65496647231870803202022-07-03T09:48:33.530-07:002022-07-03T09:48:33.530-07:00I'm not convinced. Yes, the polis did involve ...I'm not convinced. Yes, the polis did involve a connection between urban and rural which largely disappeared later. So the term "bourgeois" isn't quite right. Yet it was used (above) by people in comments as meaning "middle class". Which is how most use it today. In Aquinas's day it was very different.<br /><br />But it's also true that, to have the amount of leisure Aristotle thought necessary, one would have to be pretty high in the upper middle. (Are the gentry who ruled England from the 17th well into the 19th C upper, or middle?)<br /><br />But the bigger problem I have is that there just is too much difference between various types of occupations which fall within a given income/wealth range. Farmers can grow crops or livestock, like Cain and Abel. Even herdsmen can be very different, as US history shows in sheep and cattlemen. <br /><br />There is very good reason to see a commonality of interests among all the seafaring peoples, from the lower deck to the captain. Really. Yes, there were conflicts within, but to any landsman, it was a clear and distinct culture.<br /><br />The trouble is that we have all been taught to see things through the lens of class. I question that; at a minimum, it's worth taking a look from a different perspective.<br /><br />- George LeSauvageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-22566135405479683002022-07-03T09:37:10.116-07:002022-07-03T09:37:10.116-07:00I have found the opposite. After over a year of al...I have found the opposite. After over a year of almost all my comments vanishing, a few have gotten through lately.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-54044598526873519002022-07-03T01:49:51.340-07:002022-07-03T01:49:51.340-07:00Definitely a bit off topic, but how does Aristotel...Definitely a bit off topic, but how does Aristotelian realism deal with new things coming into existence/actuality? If the form of something cannot exist prior to that thing’s actuality in matter, then how can there be a potential for it to exist? (Ex. Did the form of a dog have to exist prior to a dog’s actual existence for it to be a potential?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-47994056001106063432022-07-02T20:15:46.081-07:002022-07-02T20:15:46.081-07:00Aristotle insight is very interesting, but i wonde...Aristotle insight is very interesting, but i wonder if his points against the rich leading are not weakned today thanks to our modern tech plus consumeristic mentality.<br /><br />The middle class today has way more conforts and pleasures that on the metic day, not only hardly going hungry but having the capacity to eat a awesome variety of tasty stuff, has more ways to deal with the elements, has apps that allow food, transportation etc to being easily get, can easily not face oposition online by choosing who to interact with, has a way less solid relation with the extended family(giving more freedom to choose relations), everyday is bombarded by propaganda with the intention of creating in it new desires, has the State to protect it from not having somethings and is taught things like that fullfiling all desires is being happy, that there is no need to answer to anyone for our personal lifes, or that law is just a human creation.<br /><br />Anyway, the point of this rambling is: looking at the way than the middle class lives today, it is not what we have today way more vulnerable to having the rich-person vices than on Aristotle day? Talmidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-68972304779585730942022-07-02T14:18:14.290-07:002022-07-02T14:18:14.290-07:00Greetings Italy!Greetings Italy!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-37798546314647552302022-07-02T04:42:12.817-07:002022-07-02T04:42:12.817-07:00Does this comment come through?
Just a trial.Does this comment come through?<br />Just a trial.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-17350132911822897882022-07-02T01:19:26.554-07:002022-07-02T01:19:26.554-07:00Strange, I'm actually finding it easier to pos...Strange, I'm actually finding it easier to post comments than previously, through my google account. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-23202379764643574132022-07-01T23:34:50.164-07:002022-07-01T23:34:50.164-07:00Hmm, thanks for the heads up, Tom. Blogger seems r...Hmm, thanks for the heads up, Tom. Blogger seems recently to have changed the comment input system. I didn't realize it was making it more difficult to comment (as opposed to just different).Edward Feserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-40039387607054850812022-07-01T20:59:22.842-07:002022-07-01T20:59:22.842-07:00Dr. Feser, I myself have often had trouble getting...Dr. Feser, I myself have often had trouble getting comments posted, as I can’t seem to log in to my profile through your site. Sometimes it seems important enough to jump through the extra hoops and make it work, but often I just give up and remain silent.<br /><br />If this is happening to other commenters also, that might explain the apparent decline in activity.Tom Simonhttps://bondwine.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-49482857161255992952022-07-01T18:27:23.522-07:002022-07-01T18:27:23.522-07:00Not sure what you’re talking about. I post on thos...Not sure what you’re talking about. I post on those topics as much as I ever did. Most recently, see e.g. the posts on May 14, May 23, May 31, and June 6. And the next post will be of a metaphysical nature.<br /><br />But perhaps you mean that there aren’t as many people leaving comments? That has been my impression over the last few weeks, though it might reflect a beginning-of-summer drop-off, which I think has happened in the past. On the other hand, traffic to the blog is as high or higher than ever. I have wondered whether some people who are still coming to the blog are choosing to comment over at Twitter rather than here, but I’m not sure.Edward Feserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-36973876563461676932022-07-01T13:56:23.991-07:002022-07-01T13:56:23.991-07:00This blog has really gone down. I miss the great d...This blog has really gone down. I miss the great discussions on God, evil, metaphysics, epistemology,<br />etc back in the day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-88148382356522082542022-07-01T11:42:22.827-07:002022-07-01T11:42:22.827-07:00Of course in the Bible a big city (Jerusalem) was ...Of course in the Bible a big city (Jerusalem) was the center of Jewish worship. And Christianity was a religion for urban people ("Pagan" originally meant country folk). And in the end all the just will be living in a big city (New Jerusalem).HolyKnowinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109864288446595298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-61681614222896574522022-06-30T19:32:01.535-07:002022-06-30T19:32:01.535-07:00@Miguel
I appreciate your post and understand you...@Miguel<br /><br />I appreciate your post and understand your contempt for modern secularism; however, as a child of multiple divorced people and all the rest I must protest your idea that somehow the West is just some product of (in polite language) “post-Christian Utopianism.”<br /><br />I think Christian Utopianism will save the West and humanity. Antichrist will come but before he does to hell with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-79861574182073510752022-06-30T19:10:34.457-07:002022-06-30T19:10:34.457-07:00It is impossible for me to contribute to excellent...It is impossible for me to contribute to excellent posts on practical (modern sense) posts.<br /><br />Post China face masks and the people who love being ruled, I think the idea of freedom in solidarity will not die. I just hope philosophers will not let us down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-24886708957245539102022-06-30T06:50:44.473-07:002022-06-30T06:50:44.473-07:00I think it is a mistake to employ "bourgeois&...I think it is a mistake to employ "bourgeois" in this context. First, the term in modern parlance is <i>meant to be derogatory</i>, but the origin of that derogation was a marxist view of property. Nobody who owned property could escape the "bourgeois" net as used by the marxists, but plenty of people who own property can be (and are) not guilty of liberal foolishness that is common on both the left and the "right" of modernity. To be "neither poor nor wealthy" is not to be a liberal (whether of the left or "right"), nor to be a bourgeois as that term's current connotation implies. <br /><br />Secondly, while it is of course sad and damaging to our nations that so many people ARE liberals of stripe or another, Aristotle's point is not so much that those in the middle will be paragons of virtue (and therefore our middle groups fail to match his ideal), but rather that those in the middle will <i>tend to</i> avoid SOME of the vices that tend to inhabit the extremes, and therefore it is useful to pull them into government to take advantage of (whatever, relative) virtues they have. That many in the middle classes are materialistic and selfish is an unhappy fact. But in spite of that, those self-same materialistic and selfish people ALSO tend not to be <i>arrogant</i> as well, as the rich tend toward. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-74078020996160088162022-06-30T02:49:19.195-07:002022-06-30T02:49:19.195-07:00The distinction between city-dwellers and landowne...The distinction between city-dwellers and landowners itself is anachronistic, as in Aristotle’s time all Greeks were inhabitants of a <i>polis.</i> There are multiple layers of error at work here.<br /><br />Nevertheless, Aristotle’s fundamental insight remains sound and generally true today: If you want to find people fit to govern, you are least likely to find them among the irresponsibly wealthy or the irresponsibly poor. The ability to buy one’s way out of personal trouble does not prepare one for public office; the inability to get out of perpetual trouble, still less.Tom Simonhttps://bondwine.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-25941787829656092972022-06-29T14:46:26.222-07:002022-06-29T14:46:26.222-07:00John Kennedy O'Tool did the best take-down of ...John Kennedy O'Tool did the best take-down of monarchy:<br /><br />Mrs. Reilly: A king? You want a king?<br /><br />Ignatius Reilly: Oh, stop babbling at me!<br /><br />Mrs. Reilly: I never heard of nobody wanted a king.HolyKnowinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06109864288446595298noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-82491750389157169702022-06-29T11:21:19.422-07:002022-06-29T11:21:19.422-07:00I notice that, as is commonly the case, people see...I notice that, as is commonly the case, people seem to equate "middle class" with "bourgeois". That's certainly an anachronism in Aquinas's day, and probably in Aristotle's. It means, after all, city dwellers. But surely the most common in earlier times would be small landowners.<br /><br />Of course, that hasn't stopped people from reading their Marxist preconceptions onto earlier times. See J H Hexter's "Storm Over the Gentry" for a good (and well written) discussion. Unfortunately, Marx's categories have so dominated our thinking that it's hard to even try to do without them.<br /><br />- George LeSauvageAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com