tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post7352833872637399693..comments2024-03-29T02:29:03.388-07:00Comments on Edward Feser: There’s no such thing as “natural atheology”Edward Feserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-66881355579519771932018-03-14T08:05:07.647-07:002018-03-14T08:05:07.647-07:00Honestly, I think "natural atheology" ju...Honestly, I think "natural atheology" just means "arguments against God's existence". Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-30004100710466331832016-05-12T05:48:55.552-07:002016-05-12T05:48:55.552-07:00Just wondering what do you think about this http:/...Just wondering what do you think about this <a href="http://bigessaywriter.com/blog/top-30-the-most-terrifying-things-that-belong-to-nature" rel="nofollow">http://bigessaywriter.com/blog/top-30-the-most-terrifying-things-that-belong-to-nature</a>? Thank you in advance! Your prompt response is much appreciated!<br />hallsarah204@gmail.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15030486128395008892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-8036888277087793292016-03-07T21:58:25.115-08:002016-03-07T21:58:25.115-08:00Could you write more about the "Death of God ...Could you write more about the "Death of God theology" movement? I'd love to know exactly what you think about it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08805618803425750850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-45309313577054734082015-06-30T09:41:15.478-07:002015-06-30T09:41:15.478-07:00@DJ: Sorry, I don't follow.@DJ: Sorry, I don't follow.David McPikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04997702078077124822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-54004099417710857322015-06-30T08:44:16.799-07:002015-06-30T08:44:16.799-07:00David M, You ask what's the common ground alle...David M, You ask what's the common ground alleged here? I think Mr. Feser has asserted his case can be made without presuming his conclusions, and that the atheist is bound by objective reasoning to reach the same conclusions as Aquinas, Aristotle, himself and others. If you deny this then that's fine by me. It explains your other objections. And it explains why I'm not obligated by reason to follow.Don Jindrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05550378223563435764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-77442314113915331652015-06-29T10:49:46.101-07:002015-06-29T10:49:46.101-07:00Don Jindra: "At what point does it deviate fr...Don Jindra: "At what point does it deviate from a study of unbiased reality to 'natural theology?'" - 'deviate'? Why think that there is a deviation involved?<br /><br />"If natural theology proceeds to ultimate explanations, how does that differ from a search for ultimate explanations by atheology?" - There just isn't such a thing. Ultimate explanation in terms of a 'not-something' just isn't ultimately explanatory.<br /><br />"Does unicornology purport to lead to ultimate explanations?" - No.<br /><br />"IMO,natural theology is a misnomer too. Both the natural theologian and the atheologian start from common ground." - But are there any atheologians? (Who do you have in mind? If there aren't any, then nobody has any common ground with them.) What is the common ground alleged here?David McPikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04997702078077124822noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-82912149678781359482015-06-28T12:52:12.540-07:002015-06-28T12:52:12.540-07:00@Mr Green
I doubt it's a machinery problem --...@Mr Green<br /><br />I doubt it's a machinery problem -- many of todays forums use software that is far superior to that which implemented Usenet. I reckon it's a social/cultural issue, and may be coming from the very same source which gives us university graduates who have never even heard of, much less read, The Nicomachean Ethics (say), and academics of even higher learning who insist on asking, dripping with ill-justified arrogance and contempt, questions like, "OK, in that case who caused God?"[1]<br /><br />On italics, from my LaTeX days I still consider it my responsibility as an author to encode the fact that I would like a word _emphasized_, but whether that emphasis is to be _implemented_ using an italic font is above my pay grade. Typesetting -- another old craft almost dead in the Internet era of popularization and Comic Sans.<br /><br />[1] I recently read Newman's "The Idea of a University" and was dismayed to realize that I, as not _that_ old a git, but in possession of a Science-based doctorate, have a gaping hole in my own education. I, until recently, had never heard of, much less read, The Nicomachean Ethics (say).Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17523643831896833787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-45675275027421815172015-06-28T00:17:16.677-07:002015-06-28T00:17:16.677-07:00Tommy: Simpler times they were, and Nobler. Truly ...Tommy: <i>Simpler times they were, and Nobler. Truly it was a Blessed Age, and one for whose passing we greybeards weep and rend our garments.</i><br /><br />There certainly was a more academic character, which wasn’t perfect, but perhaps more congenial to us academically-inclined types. And I don’t mind complexity, if it is constructive — there are many ways in which Usenet could be improved, but it seems we’ve lost all the good features it had and gained very little in its place. I’m disappointed, and a bit surprised, that a more capable successor hasn’t appeared (unless it’s hiding out there and I just haven’t seen it). I guess the demand for anything beyond “LOL”, “me too” is pretty limited.<br /><br /><i>Who says -- _who_ -- you can't do italics in ASCII? </i><br /><br />Ah, one can of course <i>represent</i> italics, but as we all know the italic is determinate in a way that prime text can never ascii-alise. (And for that, er, matter, observe that the use of underscores itself is a smuggling in of the classical typesetter's notation that points to, or is directed at, italicisation, despite being allegedly thrown out by the moderns because they claimed to have no need of it in order to communicate!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-71679589651897650232015-06-27T13:30:28.480-07:002015-06-27T13:30:28.480-07:00Was Aristotle practicing natural theology or a typ...Was Aristotle practicing natural theology or a type of physics? If "Natural theology ... follows out the implications of the fundamental notions of philosophy of nature and metaphysics ... and offers ultimate explanations," is it natural theology only if it reaches specific conclusions? At what point does it deviate from a study of unbiased reality to "natural theology?" If natural theology proceeds to ultimate explanations, how does that differ from a search for ultimate explanations by atheology? Does unicornology purport to lead to ultimate explanations?<br /><br />IMO,natural theology is a misnomer too. Both the natural theologian and the atheologian start from common ground. They search for the same ultimate explanations. The "sciences" are not bookends. They are fundamentally the same thing. Otherwise the natural theologian cannot make the claim he's an unbiased seeker of truth.<br />Don Jindrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05550378223563435764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-31965831777950468082015-06-26T19:28:39.527-07:002015-06-26T19:28:39.527-07:00@Mr Green wrote:
> I’ve always been fond of Use...@Mr Green wrote:<br />> I’ve always been fond of Usenet, ...<br /><br />Ah, the Elder Days of "rn" and comp.arch, when even alt.humor was filled with light (OK, maybe not _filled_[1] with it, but at least enough to see a DECWriter's paper by). Before the Coming of the AOLers, and long ages before the Rise of the Dark Lord Zuckerberg. Simpler times they were, and Nobler. Truly it was a Blessed Age, and one for whose passing we greybeards weep and rend our garments.<br /><br />[1] Who says -- _who_ -- you can't do italics in ASCII?Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17523643831896833787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-28404706517308567152015-06-26T18:01:37.547-07:002015-06-26T18:01:37.547-07:00Belated thanks to John West and Scott for the link...Belated thanks to John West and Scott for the link.Screwtape Jenkinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13874779097608201662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-40434257384664206932015-06-26T14:10:04.514-07:002015-06-26T14:10:04.514-07:00I’m impressed when people manage to hold serious c...I’m impressed when people manage to hold serious conversations in commenting systems that were designed for “me too”, “LOL”, “This is a very good post on a good topic, pleese read more good posts on this topic at www.nigerianprinces.com.” I’ve always been fond of Usenet, made as it was for the purpose of ongoing discussions… although not made for things like italics, and how can you truly have a serious philosophical discussion without italics? A mailing list with public archives might be more practical. Of course as soon as anything has to get practical it’s far too intractable for a theoretician like me….Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-38485054345604982972015-06-26T08:57:25.989-07:002015-06-26T08:57:25.989-07:00Ed, would you mind making a link on your page to J...Ed, would you mind making a link on your page to Jeremy's forum?<br />ThanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-37894916537458798452015-06-26T01:39:48.626-07:002015-06-26T01:39:48.626-07:00Daniel and iwpoe,
Thanks for that. I made you guy...Daniel and iwpoe,<br /><br />Thanks for that. I made you guys moderators. Jeremy Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-52309407299819091822015-06-26T01:03:24.549-07:002015-06-26T01:03:24.549-07:00There’s no such thing as “natural atheology” There’s no such thing as “natural atheology” Pulau harapanhttp://www.birotravelpulauharapan.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-32866465812007780142015-06-25T18:46:31.705-07:002015-06-25T18:46:31.705-07:00I'll moderate. I've served in that capacit...I'll moderate. I've served in that capacity for 16 years elsewhere.iwpoehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17751879308012191778noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-65925351877550100452015-06-25T17:57:13.192-07:002015-06-25T17:57:13.192-07:00Just registered myself. Thanks, Jeremy.Just registered myself. Thanks, Jeremy.Scotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11979532520761760862noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-10602583990265750402015-06-25T17:38:14.341-07:002015-06-25T17:38:14.341-07:00@Jeremy,
Excellent! I'd be happy to moderate ...@Jeremy,<br /><br />Excellent! I'd be happy to moderate if need be. No problem if not though.<br /><br />(Will give a more in-depth reply tomorrow morning)Danielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-28980364576224232872015-06-25T17:13:01.310-07:002015-06-25T17:13:01.310-07:00Daniel, John West, or anyone else,
Anyone want to...Daniel, John West, or anyone else,<br /><br />Anyone want to be a moderator? Jeremy Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-45989718474223859762015-06-25T16:50:41.017-07:002015-06-25T16:50:41.017-07:00Don't know if anyone is planning to join, but ...Don't know if anyone is planning to join, but will take me a little while to set up the best division of subforums and the like. So bear with me.Jeremy Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-35476718057219194912015-06-25T16:42:00.499-07:002015-06-25T16:42:00.499-07:00Here you go. Just set up a forum for Classical The...Here you go. Just set up a forum for Classical Theism:<br /><br />http://classicaltheism.boardhost.com/index.php<br /><br />Jeremy Taylornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-3617522187275671952015-06-25T16:31:20.640-07:002015-06-25T16:31:20.640-07:00Plantinga's natural theologian seeks to make b...Plantinga's natural theologian seeks to make belief in certain propositions rationally defensible without seeking to make belief in them rationally compelling. From his viewpoint, a proposition can be rationally discretionary for a thinker: you can rationally accept or deny a proposition if the evidence for it is fair and not compelling. I doubt that's right. <br /><br />If your evidence for a proposition is less than conclusive, then you should have a corresponding degree of confidence in the proposition. If your argument for a proposition makes that proposition have a probability of 3/4, then you should have a 3/4 degree of confidence in the proposition. You shouldn't believe or disbelieve the proposition outright. In moral philosophy, perhaps, a proposed course of action might be permissible without being obligatory. But I can't see an epistemic parallel. Natural theologians should try to show the central propositions of their discipline to be rationally compelling.Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10234207984266825352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-34519932329497555502015-06-25T15:23:02.876-07:002015-06-25T15:23:02.876-07:00I second what Anonymous just said. I haven't b...I second what Anonymous just said. I haven't been on that forum since about 2003 or so, but the last time I looked at it, it was still good. The only problem is that it is highly repetitive, since people with questions very rarely check for previous threads on the same question. I mean, how many threads do you actually need for the ontological argument? But other than that, Catholic Answers is the first place I'd check out.<br />Craig Paynenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-39552471516117506852015-06-25T14:36:11.389-07:002015-06-25T14:36:11.389-07:00Forum of Catholic Answers (http://forums.catholic....Forum of Catholic Answers (http://forums.catholic.com/) also has a part dedicated to Philosophy (and somewhat dominated by Catholics (often Thomists)), if that's what is necessary...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-40644796908047014072015-06-25T14:34:12.758-07:002015-06-25T14:34:12.758-07:00Daniel,
I know the Plantinga bit is in part a rhe...Daniel,<br /><br /><i>I know the Plantinga bit is in part a rhetorical question but I would hazard a guess that only a limited number of the posters here have read The Nature of Necessity - do correct me if I'm wrong people. </i><br /><br />Well, <a href="http://gelogica.weebly.com/uploads/2/6/6/1/26617550/plantinga_the_nature_of_necessity.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>'s an online copy for anyone interested in remedying that. Whatever else there is to say about Plantinga, <i>Nature of Necessity</i> is a good book. Not even Daniel Dennett denies Plantinga that. Anyone interested in metaphysics of modality ought to read it.<br /><br /><i>(For what it's worth I was going to talk about Ed's other Plantinga but it would have amounted to another discourse about the OA to the effect that said argument does not presuppose we have a direct grasp of the Divine Nature only that we be able to state true propositions about it) </i><br /><br />There was a guy I ended up discussing modality and PSR-cosmological arguments with a few threads back, who also asked about objections to the OA <a href="https://books.google.ca/books?id=wFFFBgAAQBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA122&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="http://www.uncrediblehallq.net/2011/12/12/why-alvin-plantingas-ontological-argument-isnt-even-halfway-good/" rel="nofollow">here</a>. They seem worth mentioning again now. <br /><br /><i>There's a lot one could say about Plantinga in the context of Classical Theism both negative and positive - to give an example his work revives ancient and baroque (literally) dispute over whether Thomism is compatible with Molinism. </i><br /><br />Why would (or why wouldn't) they be incompatible? I'm not familiar with this dispute.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04470664030455998305noreply@blogger.com