tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post3289257918769579121..comments2024-03-28T21:43:44.433-07:00Comments on Edward Feser: Byrne on gender identityEdward Feserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-2810714170922948302024-01-26T12:03:33.350-08:002024-01-26T12:03:33.350-08:00There are faulty premises in Anonymous's 2019-...There are faulty premises in Anonymous's 2019-04-17 post. <br />First, signs of gender dysphoria do not necessarily begin early. The current epidemic of transgenderism is made up mostly of adolescents who had either no previous signs or only ambiguous signs. Reports of early signs are often mistaken because of hindsight biases. It is not surprising, therefor, that we have no reliable objective way of distinguishing those who persist in transgenderism and those who desist.<br />Second, the differences in brain structure are subtle, and not obviously significant. Moreover, all of the brain structure studies rely on post hoc samples, so there is a post hoc propter hoc fallacy built into them. That is, brain structures are plastic, so finding differences that someone who is currently does not tell us if the difference preceded or followed transgender behaviour or treatments. Long story short, there is no scientific evidence that transgenderism is a result of a mismatch between a person's sex and their brain.<br />We do not, therefor, have good grounds for accepting Anonymous 2019-04-17's suggestion that gender is a property of the brain.<br />A final note. Anonymous 2019-04-17 blurred sex and gender into sex/gender on the basis of . . . I am not sure what. We can have sociological discussions about the clarity or the blurring of the roles and behaviours typically ascribed to the two sexes, but as discussed in "Byrne on why sex is binary", there is no blurring of sex. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-88963266542876413182019-05-30T09:05:26.073-07:002019-05-30T09:05:26.073-07:00(a) Everyone has a gender identity, and for “cisge...(a) Everyone has a gender identity, and for “cisgender” people it matches WHAT THEY'RE RAISED AS,<br /><br />(b) “Transgender” people have gender identities that don’t match WHAT THEY'RE RAISED AS, and<br /><br />(c) This mismatch causes gender dysphoria.<br /><br />(a)/(b) problem solved.<br />Larryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08415125457419698774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-21725231713353364462019-04-17T15:17:19.129-07:002019-04-17T15:17:19.129-07:00I am not going to argue that the definition of gen...I am not going to argue that the definition of gender that is being proposed by LGBTQ advocates is necessarily robust in a way that is philosophically satisfying, but these are real people who experience this dysphoria with enough magnitude that it drives many of them to extreme behaviors and suicide. As Christians I think we have an obligation to at least give the benefit of the doubt to suffering people and not assume they are being purposefully facetious.<br /><br />Signs of gender dysphoria appear early in youth and are correlated with significant differences in brain structure (a mix of "masculine" and "feminine" brain traits). Sex is real, biological, and therefore will have influences on our brains and instincts as animals. Because we are social animals, it makes sense that a sense of "gendered belonging" might be a type of instinct in humans. Perhaps the reason "gender" is not fitting a nice standard definition is simply because the type of "gender" trans people are talking about isn't actually a clear cut, rational thing and more a set of strong instinctive correlations.<br /><br />I don't think we need to overhaul our concept of sex and gender as Christians to accept the possibility that some people are born with wiring in the brain that doesn't fit nicely with the rest of their body. I think it is a valid discussion to talk about what this mismatch might mean for our concept of sex and gender, and what the church requires for people born with this mismatch. If, after some discussion, we were to accept that a) Sex/Gender is a property of the Brain, and not just the Genitals, b) that there can be a mismatch between the Brain's gender/sex and the rest of the body, what would this mean for the "true" gender of a person with this mismatch? Would we have to make new categories, or would we default to whatever was in the head?<br /><br />I'm not saying I'm decided either. I'm just saying we should probably have the discussion without being flippantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-8966183401508539782019-04-08T09:23:17.361-07:002019-04-08T09:23:17.361-07:00I think this blog and all the comments are taking ...I think this blog and all the comments are taking this ideology too seriously. Talk to a transgender person, you'll hardly ever find someone who says "I am X, X is defined as..." It's more like a "I hate my body and want to mutilate myself so that I feel more comfortable." Transgenderism can survive even without a binary, or any of the premises it rests on for that matter. Transgenderism has no premises because it is a mental illness, not a rational enterprise. Christophernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-33542583056572667142019-03-20T08:32:18.218-07:002019-03-20T08:32:18.218-07:00I'm very disappointed.
Every system, skin, ci...I'm very disappointed.<br /><br />Every system, skin, circulatory, muscular, visual can be defective(abnormal,dysfunctional). So too the brain:structurally, intellect and behaviorally.<br /><br />The point, is our response: if we use<br />our affliction selfishly,as a device for gain or corruption. <br />The leper may not be at fault for their disease, but if they deliberately infect,wallow in pity, or<br />make unfair demands, then they fall away from a loving and properly ordered relationship with others and our Lord.<br /><br />Notice the same is true for beauty, power, riches, wisdom. All of these can be used in a disorder way.<br /><br />Just as 2000 years ago the exact cause for a disease may not have been known, we may not know the cause of homosexuality or gender disorder.<br />We don't need to say God wouldn't allow us to be<br />born or acquire(like cancer) these disorders.<br />Rather, in humility and trust we accept that we<br />are outside Eden, and can be born or acquire physical or mental illness. <br />To suggest we can't be born with abnormal<br />sexual identity or attraction (like being blind)<br />may not be a moral failing. <br />I caution when people say "God doesn't make mistakes....he created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve".<br />No doubt God does not err.<br />But people are born blind and the sun can give you cancer and maybe genetics, hormones or imprinting might cause anomalies in sexual thoughts. <br />The issue is, if born blind, you don't demand<br />to drive the bus. <br />If you have disordered sexual thoughts you don't act on them. You don't demand rights to engage in disordered acts, you don't demand to call cancer "normal", you don't demand to call your sexual disorder "normal".<br />God doesn't err. But we are not in Eden, and God<br />allows defects of every physical structure, including our brain.<br />This does not excuse our actions. When we can, we seek a cure, where there's no cure we forebear.<br /> <br /><br />Your comments above <br />They harm Christians because they make us sound ignorant. <br />Our Blessed Mother, could not have the intelligence of her son(no one could) but I<br />don't question her( or other women )<br />having a purpose outside that of their spouse. <br />You mistake complimentary with subordinate. <br /> bcehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07008724349882724136noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-58058951010573280782019-03-16T15:21:55.587-07:002019-03-16T15:21:55.587-07:00The bible is clear. god created man. Woman was cre...The bible is clear. god created man. Woman was created for man. so her identity is about a purpose to help her hisband. not have her own accomplishments and so not her own career or interfere in mens careers.<br />Because of this women are not innately as motivated as men and so can never intellectually keep up with the men relative to the intellectual circles they move in.<br />One can see in anything women do not have interest and so accomplishment in half the things men do.<br />The difference between men and women is not just sex bodyplans unlike animals.<br />In fact this is why there is no such thing as homosexuality/gener identity issues amongst animals.<br />they all are willing bisexuals but never exclusively homosexual.<br />this shows that with people its a identity problem and not a physical one except the physical influences the identity/thoughts.<br />jesus talked about sex dysfunction while insisting man/women was the only moral/true relationship. Robert Byershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05631863870635096770noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-33573465450781704292019-03-10T11:37:01.712-07:002019-03-10T11:37:01.712-07:00What caused them to be "assigned male"? ...What caused them to be "assigned male"? What are "feminine mannerisms"? What does it mean to "dress as women"? If these statements don't really signify anything, then you are just making electrons appear on a computer screen in no discernible pattern.T Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06287822708519943071noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-71351369675974049572019-03-05T05:50:09.255-08:002019-03-05T05:50:09.255-08:00Gender is almost never binary, in almost every soc...Gender is almost never binary, in almost every society there is a group of people who are biologically male but are not socially "masculine", be they the «ευνούχοι» of ancient Greece, the «مخنث» of the `Arab world, the «hijrā» of India and suchlike. Given that gender as a category is socially constructed, a «baklâ» who calls himself a woman is not a woman, because he doesn't meet that society's criterion of what constitutes a woman. The same goes for "trans-women" in general. Sri Naharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17331851104846456479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-49597545143960123352019-03-05T04:47:50.549-08:002019-03-05T04:47:50.549-08:00Is gender binary? In the Philippines, a baklâ , ba...Is gender binary? In the Philippines, a baklâ , bayot (Cebuano) or agi (Hiligaynon) is a person who was assigned male at birth, but usually, have adopted feminine mannerisms and usually dress as women. <b>They are often considered a third gender </b>. Many bakla are exclusively attracted to men, but are not necessarily gay. Some self-identify as women.<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BaklaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-11869601435591630342019-03-05T04:40:38.610-08:002019-03-05T04:40:38.610-08:00Not if their worldview is just front that they put...Not if their worldview is just front that they put up so that they can justify their lifestyle and opinions, which are ultimately handed to them by a society that requires them to function...TheIllusionisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17642837989235595346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-50271616028037577832019-03-05T00:21:52.642-08:002019-03-05T00:21:52.642-08:00Another option would be to reject those cultural s...Another option would be to reject those cultural stereotypes which designate those preferences and predilections as masculine or feminine, for they restrict self-expression which doesn't harm the individual or others. And this is why the trans ideology harms women -- they reinforce those stereotypes which imprison women to certain roles and affinities. Sri Naharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17331851104846456479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-64513304410550547842019-03-04T22:54:56.057-08:002019-03-04T22:54:56.057-08:00The question is whether,
IF I am biologically male...The question is whether,<br />IF I am biologically male (that is, if I have small, tail-propelled gamete cells rather than large static ones);<br />AND IF I experience in myself certain preferences, inclinations, predilections, or other relevant qualia;<br />AND IF my cultural stereotypes inform me that those qualia are more-commonly experienced by persons who are female than by those who are male (my own experience notwithstanding);<br />THEN,<br />does it follow that I am "female on the inside?" ...or, am I merely an atypical male? ...and possibly less-atypical than I think, inasmuch as my culture's sex-specific stereotypes of qualitative experiences might be overgeneralized, misleading, or involve qualitative feelings which are difficult to clearly describe?<br /><br />I hold...<br />- that the brain is a bodily organ;<br />- that the conscious mind is at least partly immaterial;<br />- that animal sensations are felt as qualia and then interpreted, granted meaning, by a self-aware mind capable of categorizing them;<br />- that bodily development (whether of a male, or of a female) may be impeded or perverted from its natural telos;<br />- that just as sex organ development may be impeded (producing underdeveloped genitalia) or perverted (producing ambiguous or trans-sex genitalia), so too the instincts and behavioral traits which are "hardwired" in the brain may be impeded or perverted in their development;<br />- that a brain in which sex-specific development is impeded or perverted is likely to produce qualia uncommon to persons of that biological sex;<br />- that a reasoning mind OUGHT to characterize these atypical qualia as merely interesting (if they don't interfere with living life according to one's biological sex) or annoying and burdensome (if they do), but NOT, ultimately as representing some kind of Cartesian-Dualism-style "ghostly reality."<br /><br />It is not, therefore, that a man with these qualia says, "Oh, this is what it feels like to be a woman on the inside." It isn't.<br /><br />It is, instead, that a man with these qualia says, "Oh, this is what it feels like to be a man whose brain development has been scrambled a bit by some atypical hormonal imbalances."R.C.https://www.blogger.com/profile/03679435933685771007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-9877820243460540722019-03-04T04:55:01.098-08:002019-03-04T04:55:01.098-08:00further absurdities of that position:
https://www...further absurdities of that position:<br /><br />https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/ex-transgender-man-now-wants-14071689?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=mirror_main&fbclid=IwAR3COAv7XbqiAznPvGs2embQDLG49DJQfLWe4WtvYzlJ0KVB-PHYXOAWj1gAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-75660687640420712092019-03-02T20:49:23.854-08:002019-03-02T20:49:23.854-08:00Ed,
Sometimes I don't comprehend all of your ...Ed,<br /><br />Sometimes I don't comprehend all of your blogposts, but this is the first one I had a formidable time understanding. But I think the conclusion (that gender identity & sexual orientation are undefined) is very original and good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-71355257290424985932019-03-02T15:31:07.290-08:002019-03-02T15:31:07.290-08:00@Thursday the cause of male homosexuality is perso...@Thursday the cause of male homosexuality is personality related.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-91899138462564509282019-03-02T15:29:15.136-08:002019-03-02T15:29:15.136-08:00One of the odd things about today's world is h...One of the odd things about today's world is how much self-proclaimed skeptics have embraced the transgender ideology. They will claim that they are materialists who reject the notion of a ghost in the machine, but then embrace talk that seems to presuppose that sometimes there are male ghosts in female machines and sometimes there are female ghosts in male machines. There is something very odd in materialists who agree that people can be trapped in a wrong body.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-52119352332218288282019-03-02T10:57:30.699-08:002019-03-02T10:57:30.699-08:00oops, "is not a "male" organ,"...oops, "<i>is not a "male" organ,</i>" should be <i>is a "male" organ</i>. Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07159134209092031897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-50285367261120405702019-03-02T10:40:50.295-08:002019-03-02T10:40:50.295-08:00Yes, Mariela, you have hit upon a very telling poi...Yes, Mariela, you have hit upon a very telling point. If being a transwoman meant "I feel like women feel" and "I feel comfortable being treated like a woman", there has to be a STABLE terminus for "how women feel" and "treated like a woman". But if both the feminists and the pro-trans movements get there way, there CAN'T be any stable distinction between how men and women are to be treated or how they typically feel. The only source of such distinction (in their theories) is from <i>unacceptable</i> discriminatory treatment from the past, and as we correct those wrongs, there will cease to be any actual distinction between "how a man is treated" and "how a woman is treated". Or between "how a woman feels" and "how a man feels". To put it more clearly: it will eventually cease to be true that a penis is not a "male" organ, it is merely an organ that some men have and some women have, and (on their social theories) there <i>can't</i> be any significant meaning to there being a predominant set of feelings that most who have a penis share and a predominant set of feelings that most who have vaginas share. Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07159134209092031897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-46412849870418403852019-03-02T09:27:37.470-08:002019-03-02T09:27:37.470-08:00As Greg Cochran argues, the cause of male homosexu...As Greg Cochran argues, the cause of male homosexuality is likely a virus. It's too much of a Darwinian load to be an adaption.Thursdayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13002311410445623799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-6074210094052414812019-03-02T08:39:20.199-08:002019-03-02T08:39:20.199-08:00«For all their denying of binaries, gender ideolog...«For all their denying of binaries, gender ideology NEEDS the binary man-woman in order to keep assuming transgenderism as a possibility.»<br /><br />This is a very astute insight. Thank you. Sri Naharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17331851104846456479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-7037377870706540792019-03-02T08:36:47.341-08:002019-03-02T08:36:47.341-08:00This reminds me a bit of http://churchlife.nd.edu/...This reminds me a bit of http://churchlife.nd.edu/2019/03/01/the-eclipse-of-sex-by-the-rise-of-gender/. As someone who has read feminist theory, and doesn't suscribe enough to call herself a feminist, but has seen the rising problem with eliminating the meaning of women / men from language, I also tend to suscribe more to the second wave notion of gender, as socialization, rather than a self constructed out of nowhere notion. However, I don't think sex transition is possible. All this seems to amount to social engineering. If gender identity is a deeply held belief, we can't assume it's not influenced by something outside, or as a reaction to something. Even if the roles were coercively imposed ("that's not feminine!"), it doesn't seem a good response to alter one's body irreparably in order to achieve something that it's not there in the first place. For all their denying of binaries, gender ideology NEEDS the binary man-woman in order to keep assuming transgenderism as a possibility.Antigonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05262951286465916939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-17947687056493134812019-03-02T06:19:48.614-08:002019-03-02T06:19:48.614-08:00(contd.)
The issue is not with say, males identif...(contd.)<br /><br />The issue is not with say, males identifying as women wanting to dress up in stereotypically feminine clothing or displaying stereotypically feminine mannerisms, but with them forcing other people to accommodate all their desires. Women shouldn't be forced to let "trans-women" into their bathrooms, for instance. Or be forced to include the latter in women's groups. Sri Naharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17331851104846456479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-74591337299153348682019-03-02T06:13:07.235-08:002019-03-02T06:13:07.235-08:00Yes, if being a man or a woman is about some inner...Yes, if being a man or a woman is about some inner state that isn't accessible to others, then those words cease to have any meaning, since nothing is conveyed by uttering those words. If so, then claims like "trans-women are women" become meaningless, and that has significant positive consequences for actual women, as feminists point out, since the transgender ideology is used by males to gain access to women-only spaces, such as bathrooms or shelters. Sri Naharhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17331851104846456479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-54222362080397990202019-03-02T06:03:27.380-08:002019-03-02T06:03:27.380-08:00I have heard people try to claim that there are ev...I have heard people try to claim that there are evolutionary functions that homosexuality serves. They say that it's purpose is to have homosexual people assist their siblings who are single parents in raising their children. But this is a crazy theory because because attraction to same sex people just isn't the same desire as wanting to help raise your sister's children. Jonathan Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16544588222060966241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-84266707326448701872019-03-02T05:37:36.375-08:002019-03-02T05:37:36.375-08:00The same would apply to claims like «I feel like a...<i>The same would apply to claims like «I feel like a man/woman "inside"». Since this inner identity they supposedly have is inaccessible to any others, words like "man" and "woman" lose all meaning.</i><br /><br />So you mean that since there would be no objective meaning to terms man/woman other than what one feels this sentence would become more like "I feel like someone who feels like man/woman"?<br /><br />And Can you elaborate on how this all would count as an argument against above thesis? <br />I can anticipate some defender replying with how we should just let people be what they want to be, would that miss the point?<br />Redhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05569340378356607760noreply@blogger.com