tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post3112421715257845327..comments2024-03-28T12:18:51.521-07:00Comments on Edward Feser: Hell is not emptyEdward Feserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comBlogger258125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-41426923160326667292022-12-27T00:01:42.541-08:002022-12-27T00:01:42.541-08:00Yes, I was wondering too;) Yes, I was wondering too;) Mr Einhellerhttps://maehroboter-testsieger.de/einhell-maehroboter-test/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-76097105743805911692022-02-16T10:53:50.742-08:002022-02-16T10:53:50.742-08:00Neil Nelson,
“Why should one think of Christ'...Neil Nelson, <br /><br />“Why should one think of Christ's victory in terms of the number of the lost versus the saved?”<br /><br />What a funny question.<br /><br />Why should pro-life victories be thought of in terms of the number of children saved from abortion or the number of countries and states that afford children in the womb protection from embryocide and feticide?<br /><br />Why should the greater number of children a couple has be regarded as a sign of their generosity and openess to life?<br /><br />If you want to suggest or argue that the number of the elect contrasted to the number of the damned does not, by itself, determine whether Christ is victorious, fine.<br /><br />But to suggest or argue that it is irrelevant is on its face absurd.<br /><br />If the taking of even one human life is grave on this side of eternity, how much more so is the loss of even one human life on the other side?<br /><br />Of course numbers matter.<br /> <br />Unless "Be fruitful and multiply" was a joke. <br />Ananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-16416412917710481792022-02-13T14:26:28.980-08:002022-02-13T14:26:28.980-08:00Nice catch there my dude! Absolutely. I didn't...Nice catch there my dude! Absolutely. I didn't see that subtle yet important distinction. Not being born can still include existence obviously.René Lópezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14290430414320082411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-47803757526504276912022-02-10T21:21:35.202-08:002022-02-10T21:21:35.202-08:00Reading these comments (well, not all of them -- t...Reading these comments (well, not all of them -- there are quite a few), I do wonder if perhaps we're missing a tiny detail. Ed said:<br /><br />"...Christ’s own statements...imply that most people will be damned."<br /><br />WTF!? If that's not enough to have one rocking back and forth in the corner gibbering, I don't know what is. I mean, given the above, how does one even get out of bed in the morning?<br /><br />No, seriously: I'd be interested in hearing how y'all manage to get on with everyday life when it seems that the chances are pretty high that it's all going to end in The Bad Fire?Tommyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14149762040761516446noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-34893118832783376882022-02-05T19:43:31.809-08:002022-02-05T19:43:31.809-08:00I am a "Balthasarian" - meaning that I r...I am a "Balthasarian" - meaning that I read and loved almost all of his books, and his theology enlightened my conversion and helps immensely my Catholic life - but I find this idea of "hope for all" very weak and unconvincing, without a relation with the rest of his theology.<br />As others already said, I wonder what's the benefit and the meaning of a "hope" like that.<br />As for the benefit: the real urgency is to accept God's salvation and learn to see evil for what it is, because there's a risk to miss our destiny; there's no way to be sure in advance of the eventual result, and any such attitude is only dangerous.<br />As for the meaning: what is of our faith, in B's view, if hell is actually NOT empty? Balthasar himself would concede this is a real possibility - because Christ said so in the clearest words - but he doesn't offer any understanding of such eventuality; his book seems built on a semi-hidden premise that this wouldn't be "acceptable", a failure in God. However, as Feser rightly wrote, it's not clear why that shouldn't be the case for the fallen angels, and Balthasar's following attempt to depersonalize the demons is even more unconvincing.<br />Better to stick to the traditional view: liberty is real and so are the consequences. God, willing to save every one of us, went among us in Christ in order to reopen the way to God, and nobody is outside His reach - as Balthasar himself so powerfully explained - but on this earth this cannot become a status of quiet certitude - this is, instead, the temptation of the Great Inquisitor.PaoloPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15526502018944925340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-10005724063045255462022-02-04T11:18:25.925-08:002022-02-04T11:18:25.925-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561526052876064805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-14064885583464658002022-02-04T10:17:06.809-08:002022-02-04T10:17:06.809-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Normhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11561526052876064805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-42901293658237118622022-02-04T08:20:51.162-08:002022-02-04T08:20:51.162-08:00Gary openly rejects philosophy and learning philos...Gary openly rejects philosophy and learning philosophy. This by definition renders his Atheism intellectually inferior & rationally useless even if there are no gods.<br /><br />I notice this is a growing trend among New Atheists. They simply mindlessly parrot Positivism and uncritically believe only what can be known by the quantitative measurements of science and ad hoc declare only that type of knowledge is meaningful.<br /><br />Gary is also an ex-Fundamentalist which means he was already used to a feelings oriented belief and a non-rational approach to religion. He simply carried this mentality over to his new religion of non-belief.<br /><br />I tried to tell he go read some philosophy but he mocks philosophy. Which is weird because this is a philosophy blog.<br /><br />I can with ease imagine back when he did believe in Christ he no doubt showed up on Evolutionist Blogs not knowing a lick of science but thought if he just quoted bible verses at the locals they would give up evolution....<br /><br />Weird. Son of Ya'Kovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05645132954231868592noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-65172463793197482552022-02-04T04:12:44.758-08:002022-02-04T04:12:44.758-08:00@zui:
"But if this is so, then how is it pos...@zui:<br /><br />"But if this is so, then how is it possible for souls in Purgatory to repent from their venial sins?"<br /><br />They don't. This is a misunderstanding on Purgatory: it is not a place of or for repentance but for the payment of temporal punishment due to sin and purgation of attachment to (venial) sin.<br /><br />The council of Lyons has it that (*very* approximate words as I am going by memory): "If they die truly repentant before having made satisfaction for sins committed, their souls are cleansed after death by purifying punishments" etc. and etc.grodrigueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12366931909873380710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-66090844179863581692022-02-04T01:35:49.231-08:002022-02-04T01:35:49.231-08:00Talmid
So, you don't agree with Mr Geocon on ...Talmid<br /><br />So, you don't agree with Mr Geocon on this.<br /><br />Tony<br /><br />"There are all sorts of cases of people who DON'T KNOW what action will produce good results (e.g., produce happiness) because of distorted minds, lack of information, bad theory of "the good", and so on"<br /><br />So, what you mean is that God knows best what is good for us, and if he gives us an order, we should obey it because it is good for us.<br />I completely agree, but this implies that there are, objectively speaking, things that are good for us and things that are bad for us.<br />Now, if you lose your faith, do you think that this suddenly becomes false?<br />I guess know, and that is why what you say or believe contradicts Mr Geocon's straw man concerning non-theistic morality.<br /><i>If</i> God exists, which is at least debatable, and only gives unambiguous commands, which is demonstrably false, then we have a better way of knwoing what is good or bad for us than if we have to figure this out on our own, that's true. But that does not mean that, in the majority of cases, we can figure it out on our own and non-theistic morality, while not being as perfect as this hypothetical theistic morality, is nevertheless not completely useless.<br />That's my point, and at this stage I am leaving this discussion.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-74270058246338014362022-02-03T21:11:00.615-08:002022-02-03T21:11:00.615-08:00the federalist, but how many non-Catholics accept ...the federalist, but how many non-Catholics accept the claims of the Catholic Church? These claims don't seem obviously true, and God hasn't made them so.<br /><br />How many unbelievers actually accept God's existence and the claims of the RCC and persist in rejecting their authority?Timnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-56103451822617604152022-02-03T19:48:25.033-08:002022-02-03T19:48:25.033-08:00Are you, Jim, first cause of some effect in realit...<i>Are you, Jim, first cause of some effect in reality, autonomously from God? How does this not make you a second god?</i><br /><br />According to Genesis 1, yes, man in particular but man and woman together are <b><i>secondarily</i></b> god/gods. You seem to be trying to reduce human free will against proper theology ("God talk") by reducing human beings to dirt like the pagans did in their creation accounts, until they couldn't be bothered to produce them anymore.<br /><br />Yes, God mad man in his own image and likeness. No, that doesn't mean he can cast magic spells and make things pop into or out of reality: yes, human free-will does give us a likeness to God that is real.Timocratesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-62573502512938141782022-02-03T19:29:42.695-08:002022-02-03T19:29:42.695-08:00Well, i had no intention of defending that with no...Well, i had no intention of defending that with no christianity there is no way to ground ethics, quite the opposite. I do happen to believe that no other system really works besides christianity, so in the it is truly the only option, but not because only this system can ground ethics. There are non-christian system were moral realism does its part. <br /><br />Rather my intention was to give a answer to your question "why ought we to obey God?". You said that you see no reason why besides a hypothetical imperative and i tried to show that thomism does have a way to ground a categorical imperative on obeying God, even if people clearly can ignore it. <br /><br />Talmidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267925670235640337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-64455186408994589392022-02-03T18:12:49.239-08:002022-02-03T18:12:49.239-08:00Have I told you that I love you lately, sir? I mea...Have I told you that I love you lately, sir? I mean no awkwardness by it.Timocratesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-16578339433935686782022-02-03T18:09:51.441-08:002022-02-03T18:09:51.441-08:00The above Catholic source says that Hell is a real...<i>The above Catholic source says that Hell is a real place</i><br /><br />Well thankfully people can read and figure out whether or not that is true on their own.Timocratesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-32357835111832882752022-02-03T15:10:32.811-08:002022-02-03T15:10:32.811-08:00@Anonymous universalist
The scripture is extremel...@Anonymous universalist<br /><br />The scripture is extremely clear on the divinity of Jesus. It just doesn't push it like a mere fact because we are talking about an offer to enter into God's love and love does not spit out commands. But that Jesus is God is very clearly taught in the New Testament.<br /><br />Hell is even more explicitly taught. <br /><br />If you meet a stranger, it would be beyond awkward to talk like you knew each other from the day you were born. But it would not be awkward to warn them that there is a danger to them in no uncertain terms if they go this way or that.<br /><br />The divinity of Jesus is in the books of the bible but quietly. The dread of hell is explicit.Timocratesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-50212696026680929172022-02-03T14:39:45.448-08:002022-02-03T14:39:45.448-08:00Alexander,
A certain doctor provides you with fo...Alexander, <br /><br />A certain doctor provides you with food and health, but you or someone else has deliberately messed up the properties or ingredients of that food and that food thus became toxic and deadly as a direct consequence of said action. The doctor then shows up and warns you about the danger and consequence tied to that action and offers you a remedy or cure or some instruction for overcoming the contamination aspect of that food. <br /><br />With that said, no sane mind would accuse that doctor of wanting you dead or for having created or directly caused the contamination in that food just for the simple fact of him being the one who prepared and provided it to you and which was originally good and healthy and you (yourself or others) have messed up and contaminated (even against his original instruction that came with it).<br /><br />If you agree, then your objection fails, because by analogy it is mostly the same with God in Christianity.<br /><br />Teonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08254721997916701902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-83426034388830741682022-02-03T13:27:34.146-08:002022-02-03T13:27:34.146-08:00None of what you say implies that we "ought&q...<i>None of what you say implies that we "ought" to obey God.<br />Loving someone does not imply that we ought to obey this person in all circumstances.<br />We ought to obey someone only if this person's commands are good. but if the commands are good, we don't need them, we can just as well do good.<br />So, you have made my point better than I could.</i> <br /><br />Poppycock. <br /><br />For the vast majority of specifics of what God enjoins, it is "do that which your nature is attuned to, which is what will make you happy." For a tiny fraction of all actions, His commands are specifics as a <i>refinement</i> on the above: it belongs to our nature as rational beings to adore and give thanks to God: He directs that we do so in a specific way (e.g. on Sundays, in the Re-Presentation of the perfect sacrifice of Calvary). And only for a tiny smidgeon of a tine percentage of all acts, the directive by God (given by private revelation) is to do an act in this concrete circumstance that is not reducible to merely a specific refinement of what belongs to the natural law already (e.g. a command by God for Moses to strike the rock to produce water, a command by God to Hosea to marry a specific woman, a command by God to Isaiah to prophesy a drought). <br /><br />Loving someone who (a) is ALL-good, (b) all-knowing, and (c) wants our optimum happiness, DOES imply doing what they command. Moreover, <i>fully and properly</i> loving a Someone whose transcendent perfection and goodness implies loving them in a transcendent way, entails being so united to their will that merely <i>knowing</i> their specific will for your specific actions in concrete circumstances makes you <b>want</b> to do those same actions in the sure confidence that those actions are for the best. Thus St. Augustine's: "Love, and do what you will." When you <i>love properly,</i>, "what you will" is good action. But we wouldn't have KNOWN what love is, in its fullest dimensions, without assistance. <br /><br /><i>but if the commands are good, we don't need them, we can just as well do good.</i> <br /><br />Double poppycock. There are all sorts of cases of people who DON'T KNOW what action will produce good results (e.g., produce happiness) because of distorted minds, lack of information, bad theory of "the good", and so on. Even if we achieved a perfect philosophy of the good (without God's assistance - which had never been accomplished), we still would miss on some actions because we don't know enough data, and we certainly don't know the future. Tonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07159134209092031897noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-88544458824074419362022-02-03T13:26:46.084-08:002022-02-03T13:26:46.084-08:00@AnonymousJanuary 29, 2022 at 10:29 AM
"Migh...@AnonymousJanuary 29, 2022 at 10:29 AM<br /><br /><i>"Might I suggest that you cool your polemical jets?"</i><br /><br />Mr. Copas has been nothing but reasonable and informative in all of his comments that I have seen him share here and read. I'm not even sure what dictionary on earth could possible describe anything he has posted as "polemical." I think you owe him an apology.Timocratesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-2241065435334820152022-02-03T12:20:32.114-08:002022-02-03T12:20:32.114-08:00Prof. Feser,
You say that souls in Hell cannot re...Prof. Feser,<br /><br />You say that souls in Hell cannot repent because of the particular conditions of disembodied souls after death. But if this is so, then how is it possible for souls in Purgatory to repent from their venial sins?zuihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14649940393389713281noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-55777387170995094462022-02-03T10:41:44.737-08:002022-02-03T10:41:44.737-08:00The 2020 PhilPapers Survey surveyed philosophers o...The 2020 PhilPapers Survey surveyed philosophers on a number of subjects.<br /><br />Philosophers who accept or lean towards:<br />theism: 18.93%<br />atheism: 66.95%<br /><br />Why is it that philosophy arguments for God fail so badly with people educated in philosophy?<br /><br />As a non-philosopher, I’m going to have to accept the expert majority opinion.Garyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02519721717265344702noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-79143211344300407732022-02-03T07:36:02.053-08:002022-02-03T07:36:02.053-08:00Since the Holy Church has not sorted out the contr...Since the Holy Church has not sorted out the controversy de auxiliis between the Dominicans and the Jesuits after half a millennium, I am not holding my breath :-)Tom Mazanechttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16909029541861427810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-20324090099212568842022-02-03T00:48:12.477-08:002022-02-03T00:48:12.477-08:00Talmid
"Also notice that a atheist could acc...Talmid<br /><br />"Also notice that a atheist could accept much of what I will say"<br />I do accept much of what you said. You have, in fact answered the question "if yur faith is false, then why should we abandon it in piecemeal? Why ought we continue to (for instance) care for the poor and disabled or forgive our enemies?"<br /><br />So, like Tony, you have actually made my point.Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-1081975930295012342022-02-03T00:37:01.190-08:002022-02-03T00:37:01.190-08:00Tony
None of what you say implies that we "o...Tony<br /><br />None of what you say implies that we "ought" to obey God.<br />Loving someone does not imply that we ought to obey this person in all circumstances. <br />We ought to obey someone only if this person's commands are good. but if the commands are good, we don't need them, we can just as well do good.<br />So, you have made my point better than I could.<br /><br />Mr Geocon<br /><br />I was simply making it clear that I am not satified with mysteries unless it is clear that no other explanation is possible. That's it. If you things that's a jab I will withdraw the remark.<br />As for me impliying that Christians only do charitable work because they want to avoid Hell or enter Heaven as opposed to "truly" caring about them, I did not say this at all. In fact, most people (including most Christians) do genuinely care for other people, because that's inherent to human nature.<br />You asked why ought we continue to (for instance) care for the poor and disabled or forgive our enemy, as if you think that somehow if theism is not true, we would suddenly stop caring about other people. I don't believe for a minute that, if (per impossible) you became convinced that God did not exist you would suddenly stop caring for others.<br />Walter Van den Ackerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16101735542155226072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-47999212766740232712022-02-02T20:52:46.848-08:002022-02-02T20:52:46.848-08:00Said too soon...Said too soon...Talmidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04267925670235640337noreply@blogger.com