tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post4344565943732660093..comments2024-03-28T13:39:03.094-07:00Comments on Edward Feser: Stove on contemporary academic styleEdward Feserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-38543942396783909982010-03-19T11:54:39.313-07:002010-03-19T11:54:39.313-07:00An excellent short blog post giving an overview of...An excellent short blog post giving an overview of the responsibility of religious to give compassion to all creatures..http://namahatta.org/blogs/index.php/vasu/2008/09/26/abolitionist_online_interviewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-81590943659688866932010-03-18T13:08:13.715-07:002010-03-18T13:08:13.715-07:00"“tentativeness and humility for thee, but no..."“tentativeness and humility for thee, but not for me.”<br /><br />This certainly is not the way of a good scientist.<br /><br />As for applying this attitude to your philosophy, particularly A-T, if you grant near infallibility to these two figures (Aristotle and Aquinas), then you must explain away crimes due to their ideas..."<br /><br />'Crimes' is not the term in most cases of orthodoxy run amok. It is the case, however, that serious harm and burdening of prople can result from dogged refusal to change. Neo-cons are often correct that liberal progressives often screw up while following a pet ideology, say anti-technology anti-nukes back in the day.<br /><br />But the knife cuts both ways, and tentativeness and humility deserve GREAT respect from all parties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-24784560710409910262010-03-18T08:22:48.223-07:002010-03-18T08:22:48.223-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.01010101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-4718350701509214382010-03-16T17:07:40.769-07:002010-03-16T17:07:40.769-07:00As a final aside, your "source" for your...As a final aside, your "source" for your claim about Aristotle was an hour long youtube video discussing Aristotle far less than other topics. I had to dig through it to find anything approaching the topic, incidentally finding the speaker saying he was not competent to adequately discuss Aristotle on the topic of mind and soul.<br /><br />Even then, I found no claims by Aristotle that slaves had souls less sophisticated than non-human animals. Maybe I missed it. What I did hear of Aristotle making comparisons of slaves to animals (lower and domesticated) - but comparisons and analogies are not equations.<br /><br />But there's a greater problem with this: Aristotle is not infallible, nor is Aquinas. Indeed, it would be hard for the latter to be, since he explicitly made arguments that amounted to correcting or disagreeing with the former. Just as Aquinas could be wrong about ensoulment but right about more, Aristotle could have made wrong turns on slaves but been right about intellect and more. Again, I suggest you check your own prejudices here. <br /><br />But then, I'm done with this. Your style and substance leave me wanting.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-47905554693150406502010-03-16T15:44:31.934-07:002010-03-16T15:44:31.934-07:00Anon,
"I am keeping my focus here on animals...Anon,<br /><br />"I am keeping my focus here on animals and theists. Questions of atheism are another thing, and I am sure appeals to Genesis or JPII would not be in order there."<br /><br />Sorry, pal, but you're dishonest. You've gleefully smacked religion as a whole, you've defended secularism (and with it, atheism and materialism) because of the crimes of religion - forgetting that "crimes" are emptied of all moral weight under atheism and materialism. You say you come from "within the fold", but when I make just and reasonable criticisms of the organizations you praise, you buckle and quiver.<br /><br />"I was asked about Aristotle’s belief on slaves being sub-animal, provided a source, and poof – no more commenter. I mention vegetarian theologians and both recent popes, and nobody responds. (You did, but I am not sure you googled JPII’s words)"<br /><br />Nobody responds? Except for the people who have responded to you, of course. And yes, I've read JPII's words. I asked you some straightforward questions about him - you've danced around the implications. Because they make your already strained narrative all the harder to justify.<br /><br />No, you haven't addressed all commenter's points - "I don't want to talk about that" and silence are not addressing. But, I'm done here. You're dishonest, you have a severe problem with using reason on this subject, and your response to people not bothering to discuss things further with you as victory. So I'll simply point out that you've lost on all points and been exposed as lacking good faith in discussion, and move on to better topics with more reliable, even if opposing, commenters.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-10630755250137629482010-03-16T05:45:54.066-07:002010-03-16T05:45:54.066-07:00Cog
Why animals are also fallen into cruelty is a...Cog<br /><br />Why animals are also fallen into cruelty is a mystery to me; going back to the Genesis account where they were peaceable and vegetarian like us (God gave nuts and such for his creatures to eat).<br /><br />Dr. Webb and others believe that just as we look to God for our proper flourishing, so too the creatures look to one another and up to us (like children coming to Jesus). And with evolution towards the return of the peaceable kingdom, perhaps we will develop cruelty-free food for all. <br /><br />But I cannot claim to have an answer for your good question. It is a mystery.<br /><br />Crude<br /><br />I am keeping my focus here on animals and theists. Questions of atheism are another thing, and I am sure appeals to Genesis or JPII would not be in order there.<br /><br />I am trying to address all commenters issues and offer some info to consider. Christians for PETA, for one, is a great source of lit. I was asked about Aristotle’s belief on slaves being sub-animal, provided a source, and poof – no more commenter. I mention vegetarian theologians and both recent popes, and nobody responds. (You did, but I am not sure you googled JPII’s words)<br /><br />I think I have addressed all commenters’ points.<br /><br />This is a serious matter. Most of Jesus’ images of a loving God include vivid animal references, analogies, and images.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-61499432406825583562010-03-15T22:02:21.068-07:002010-03-15T22:02:21.068-07:00Anon,
"I am speaking from 'within the fo...Anon,<br /><br />"I am speaking from 'within the fold', not as an outsider attacking. Think :repent and reform"<br /><br />Wonderful - then the two of us can agree that materialism and atheism (particularly together) are vastly more harmful to animals, given what they deny and implicitly justify as far morality (towards both animals and humans) goes.<br /><br />Correct?<br /><br />And we can, within the same fold, agree to the major shortfalls, hypocrisy, and intellectual corruption present in groups that purport to look out for animal welfare - when in fact their worldviews intellectually wreak havoc on their very cause.<br /><br />Correct?<br /><br />"I can easily see you attacking my (and JPII's) comments about loving fellow animals if I were instead to say "love thy neighbor". No need for bringing in atheism."<br /><br />You've condemned Catholicism and A-T in particular (not to mention 'religion' broadly) for giving intellectual support to what you see as abuse. I think the comparison and contrast is important to establish right out of the gates. Given that, there's plenty of warrant to discuss atheism and materialism. Is that so hard?<br /><br />What's more, I'm not disagreeing with JPII. I think humans have a duty to animals. But your inane interpretation of JPII's words is just that, as much as you wish it weren't so. And despite your clear intention to continue acting as if he meant whatever you wish him to have meant.<br /><br />"Whatever happened to your fellow beef-eaters form earlier comments?"<br /><br />Whatever happened to you actually replying to the points I and others have made in this discussion, rather than ignoring them?Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-22876585315283668332010-03-15T18:33:03.178-07:002010-03-15T18:33:03.178-07:00I'm curious.
We see animals hunting, killing...I'm curious. <br /><br />We see animals hunting, killing, and devouring each other all the time and yet I don't think anyone would say, for example, that the lion is pernicious or cruel for eating the gazelle, and certainly not guilty of "animal cruelty". Yet if humans and all other animals ['souled agents'] have the same formal nature (soul), then surely no one should call humans' manipulation and consumption of animals unethical. If there really is no qualitative difference between me and a lion, why not convince me *and* the lion to spare other creatures "unnecessary suffering"? <br /><br />Presumably the rejoinder is that 'natural' predators, unlike humans, only inflict pain on their prey to eat them, not to domesticate, train, experiment on, etc. them. Yet, again, surely this is just a matter of squeamishness differing taste among species. I may not like the idea of killer whales playing with their prey before eating it, but I don't think I can call it immoral. Ergo, etc. <br /><br />Best,Codgitator (Cadgertator)https://www.blogger.com/profile/00872093788960965392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-47272295642088614262010-03-14T03:09:36.261-07:002010-03-14T03:09:36.261-07:00Crude
I am speaking from 'within the fold'...Crude<br /><br />I am speaking from 'within the fold', not as an outsider attacking. Think :repent and reform"<br /><br />I can easily see you attacking my (and JPII's) comments about loving fellow animals if I were instead to say "love thy neighbor". No need for bringing in atheism.<br /><br />Whatever happened to your fellow beef-eaters form earlier comments?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-54674427657919844162010-03-13T15:49:36.544-08:002010-03-13T15:49:36.544-08:00Anon,
"*It is not theologically or philosoph...Anon,<br /><br />"*It is not theologically or philosophically necessary or defensible to allow animal suffering. Look at how Jesus spoke of God’s love and care for them."<br /><br />No commands of veganism, or even vegetarianism. Despite dietary laws. While providing fishes to a crowd to eat. While driving spirits into pigs to drown.<br /><br />"I wish to see the Church examine its conscience, (Pope Benedict so advocates w/r animal farms). The suffering of animals could easily have been avoided during the past reign of Christendom and with its present influence, still could do so.""<br /><br />What makes you think the conscience has not been examined, and nothing has been found wrong with eating meat? Maybe your conscience is the one that needs to be examined - you're the one in the wrong here, my conscience says.<br /><br />"*If the majority of PETA members are secularists, it would not surprise me, since they justifiably see religion as part of the problem of animal suffering."<br /><br />You keep on avoiding my question: If we are going to talk about the impact of Catholicism or even A-T philosophy on the treatment of animals, then what of atheism and materialism? So now you justify "secularism" - I assume, atheism and materialism - despite the fact that these views eschew the very idea of there being any objective moral laws, period, to say nothing of towards animals?<br /><br />Your entire front of criticism just fell apart here. You rail against one philosophical tradition because of what you think it permits and leads to, but you turn a blind eye towards one vastly more harmful to animals and humans alike - with the track record to show it. Why?<br /><br />"*His words of ‘we both have the same breath of God’ and ‘are both brothers’ are SO adamant that, if JP II did not mean what he clearly stated at the gathering, he was either lying or being intentionally duplicitous. As for falling short and sinning – we ALL do."<br /><br />He was not a vegan. He did not advocate veganism. He did not "fall short" - his words did not have the meaning you want them to have, nor did he intend them to. There's a third option you don't want to consider: That you're manipulating the Pope's words to mean what you want them to mean, intentionally or not. The fact that your interpretation of those words is in such a minority should tell you something.<br /><br />"*Watch some animal slaughter vids."<br /><br />Watch some? Not only have I watched some, my family raised pigs and chickens in our backyard as a hobby, not to mention goats (for milking). And yes, these were killed and eaten by us as well. <br /><br />You do your cause a disservice. The PETA's harmful philosophy and lunatic mission is harmful to animals (not just due to the executions they perform on them) as well as humans. I suggest you try challenging your own prejudices and examining your own conscience.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-36701234618553789352010-03-13T10:07:04.010-08:002010-03-13T10:07:04.010-08:00I care not for a man's religion whose dog and ...I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it.<br /><br /> Abe LincolnAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-4049156881756720722010-03-13T05:03:24.553-08:002010-03-13T05:03:24.553-08:00Crude said...
Anonymous,
Thank you, but you respo...Crude said...<br />Anonymous,<br /><br />Thank you, but you responded to none of my questions, and sidestepped the points I made. If the charge is going to be made against the Catholic Church, and A-T philosophy in particular, that said metaphysics are responsible for the mistreatment of animals <br /><br />*It is not theologically or philosophically necessary or defensible to allow animal suffering. Look at how Jesus spoke of God’s love and care for them. I wish to see the Church examine its conscience, (Pope Benedict so advocates w/r animal farms). The suffering of animals could easily have been avoided during the past reign of Christendom and with its present influence, still could do so. <br /><br /> - then what about atheism, and materialism? I say there will be no contest, and atheism/materialism will be the more disastrous worldview where animal welfare is concerned. And I further say, insofar as the PETA is either silent on these issues or implicitly endorses atheism and/or materialism, they are responsible for harm that comes to animals.<br /><br />*If the majority of PETA members are secularists, it would not surprise me, since they justifiably see religion as part of the problem of animal suffering. <br /><br />What's more, you say JPII made a "clear pronouncement" on the "sameness" of animal and human souls. Putting aside whether he meant that, and what authority it carried, I'll simply ask: Was the Pope a vegan? Did he consider eating meat or animal products a sin? If not, that's all the perspective needed to make it clear of the vast, vast gulf between JPII and PETA. No one is ignoring the pronouncement - what's being ignored is a nutty rendition of what it means.<br /><br />*His words of ‘we both have the same breath of God’ and ‘are both brothers’ are SO adamant that, if JP II did not mean what he clearly stated at the gathering, he was either lying or being intentionally duplicitous. As for falling short and sinning – we ALL do.<br /><br />You talk about prejudices being challenged. Here's my challenge to you: Maybe human eating meat and using animal products is not evil. It may, in fact, be a good - not even a necessary evil, but a good itself.<br /><br />*Watch some animal slaughter vids.<br /><br />Maybe PETA is actually supporting worldviews and movements that are or lead to great moral harm, harm to animals, and harm to humans. And maybe there is a difference between humans and animals, while at the same time humanity still has certain duties to animals.<br /><br />I'm against factory farming and PETA both, for what it's worth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-54033497936986486502010-03-13T01:38:27.171-08:002010-03-13T01:38:27.171-08:00Anonymous,
Thank you, but you responded to none o...Anonymous,<br /><br />Thank you, but you responded to none of my questions, and sidestepped the points I made. If the charge is going to be made against the Catholic Church, and A-T philosophy in particular, that said metaphysics are responsible for the mistreatment of animals - then what about atheism, and materialism? I say there will be no contest, and atheism/materialism will be the more disastrous worldview where animal welfare is concerned. And I further say, insofar as the PETA is either silent on these issues or implicitly endorses atheism and/or materialism, they are responsible for harm that comes to animals.<br /><br />What's more, you say JPII made a "clear pronouncement" on the "sameness" of animal and human souls. Putting aside whether he meant that, and what authority it carried, I'll simply ask: Was the Pope a vegan? Did he consider eating meat or animal products a sin? If not, that's all the perspective needed to make it clear of the vast, vast gulf between JPII and PETA. No one is ignoring the pronouncement - what's being ignored is a nutty rendition of what it means.<br /><br />You talk about prejudices being challenged. Here's my challenge to you: Maybe human eating meat and using animal products is not evil. It may, in fact, be a good - not even a necessary evil, but a good itself. Maybe PETA is actually supporting worldviews and movements that are or lead to great moral harm, harm to animals, and harm to humans. And maybe there is a difference between humans and animals, while at the same time humanity still has certain duties to animals.<br /><br />I'm against factory farming and PETA both, for what it's worth.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-87360800569766506022010-03-12T21:12:33.095-08:002010-03-12T21:12:33.095-08:00It is always good to see my teacher being apprecia...It is always good to see my teacher being appreciated. He was the only one of the academics who taught me at Sydney University I kept in touch with after I left.Lorenzohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00305933404442191098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-51974919388108413552010-03-12T12:03:35.185-08:002010-03-12T12:03:35.185-08:00theofloinn
" I await any presentation of the...theofloinn<br /><br />" I await any presentation of the thoughts of rabbits or wolves on how their treatment of us [or each other] affects them spiritually. "<br /><br />In Genesis, God gave us fellow animal creatures as companions.<br /><br />As for the history of Church policies affecting animals, start with the Stoics and their influence on Augustine. <br /><br />I've heard you quote Midgley in the past - you might expand your info sources a bit and perhaps your prejudices will be challenged.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-89767075746619392322010-03-12T06:33:28.086-08:002010-03-12T06:33:28.086-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-43887381720098758792010-03-12T03:57:25.150-08:002010-03-12T03:57:25.150-08:00Crude asks, “A question for the vegan.
Do you bel...Crude asks, “A question for the vegan.<br /><br />Do you believe that humans and animals have souls? Are you yourself a christian, or even a theist? I seem to recall that the PETA has an atheist at the helm, and count materialists among their number.”<br /><br />I think you mean me. I am not vegan (I want to be). I am the anonymous who made the 1st comment and also “It seems the devoted Catholics here choose to ignore JP II's clear pronouncements on the sameness of human and non-human (animal or creature) souls - why?”<br /><br />I am a tentative Catholic – definitely not dogmatic. I view Francis of Assisi with infinitely more esteem than Aquinas, I feel a kindred spirit between JP II and Francis. <br /><br />PETA has a Christian coalition that acts with the humility I feel appropriate to the problem of animal cruelty.<br /><br />Stephen H Webb is active with this PETA movement. He is a conservative Catholic theologian who wrote _ On God and Dogs _ where he argues for Christians to work with fellow creatures in bring forth the eschaton of the peaceable kingdom – I highly recommend it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-43990261071513443072010-03-11T22:05:50.412-08:002010-03-11T22:05:50.412-08:00I'd prefer to see anonymous comments deleted f...I'd prefer to see anonymous comments deleted from all blogs - certainly, I never read them. <br /><br />If a commenter cannot even be bothered to think up a pseudonym, then he is self-refuting. <br /><br />But anyway, I deplore a focus upon rhetorical style over substance. It is a major focus of the mass media - criticism of the manner by which opponents conduct themselves, and ad hominem statements and speculations. <br /><br />These discussions cannot be resolved and can go on forever - and everybody has an opinion. Of course this is worst with religion; but until you have experienced it yourself, as I have, you would not believe how a widespread media discussion of even scientific facts can _completely_ avoid facts. <br /><br />The modern mass media can take a clear statement of a single fact; and instead of asking whether that fact is true, they bury the fact under a vast and elaborate edifice of speculation about why the person uttered that particular fact, what this tells us about that person, whether their manner of uttering it was optimal or maybe clumsy, what might be the effects of uttering the fact, and so on and on. <br /><br />But discussions of style, personality and motivation are used to distract attention from engaging with substantive arguments.<br /><br />I happen to like Ed's style very much - it has the virtues of clarity and forcefulness, and he was the first person in decades to successfully get Thomism through my thick skull. That took force. <br /><br />In other words he managed to get me to recognize the truth. And that is precisely what rhetoric is for.Bruce Charltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09615189090601688535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-79367377942354427612010-03-11T17:22:11.259-08:002010-03-11T17:22:11.259-08:00Ed,
What evidence would you want, here?
"Ed...<i>Ed,<br /><br />What evidence would you want, here?</i><br /><br />"Ed"? I wasn't the one who made the statement you are replying to. It's been a long day, and a bad one, and family obligations prevent me from taking time to do more right now than to note this: If I had been the one replying to you, I would have done so under my own name, as I always do. (Funny to see an implied accusation to the contrary coming from an <i>anonymous</i> commenter, of all people!)Edward Feserhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13643921537838616224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-65488958262993756802010-03-11T16:10:40.849-08:002010-03-11T16:10:40.849-08:00Those same academicians preaching metaphysical inc...Those same academicians preaching metaphysical incertitude would sing differently if the philosophical spotlight turned to their chief religious crusade, global warming. There we find dogmatic certitude exceeding the Inquisition's, all for what is nothing more than a quaint scientific hypothesis jerry-built from a chain of unlikely climate-research sub-hypotheses, all quite unproven by a field far too immature even to be attempting such forecasting. The Holy Dogma of the Self-Annointed, the AGW Tipping Point of Woe, is said to absolutely mandate energy statism and the equitable distribution of poverty. When will those Marxists apply their cynical class-interest reductionism to themselves?Interstellar Billhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14609957210536917411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-42874241022721766802010-03-11T15:41:26.545-08:002010-03-11T15:41:26.545-08:00A question for the vegan.
Do you believe that hum...A question for the vegan.<br /><br />Do you believe that humans and animals have souls? Are you yourself a christian, or even a theist? I seem to recall that the PETA has an atheist at the helm, and count materialists among their number.<br /><br />I'd love - absolutely love - to compare and contrast the sort of cruelties that are implicitly or explicitly justified (or at least, shown not to violate any objective moral law) by the assumption of atheism and/or materialism, versus by Catholicism.Crudehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04178390947423928444noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-9615212984602922332010-03-11T11:56:00.078-08:002010-03-11T11:56:00.078-08:00Someone here blamed DesCartes, as though all was w...<i>Someone here blamed DesCartes, as though all was well for the creatures in Christendom before.</i> <br /><br />The critique of the Enlightenment project and its contribution to the treatment and debasement of animals was set forth by Mary Midgley, a well-known atheist and animal rights philosopher. <br /><br /><i>Aquinas only cared for animals in that how we treat them might affect US spiritually.</i> <br /><br />I await any presentation of the thoughts of rabbits or wolves on how their treatment of us [or each other] affects them spiritually. <br /><br />Aesop and Disney have a lot to answer for here. <br />+ + +<br />Human and animal souls are not the same, or else humans would be no different from other animals, which we clearly are by dint that <i>we</i> are having this debate and not the squirrels in my yard. Do we really need to ask if horses have speculative philosophy? Or if rabbits produce mathematics? Or snakes have sciences? Where is the art of the kangaroo? However, because humans are a kind of animal, the human soul includes a sensitive soul, not as a separate "part" but integrated into the whole. (And the animal soul incorporates [pardon the pun] a vegetative soul, and the vegetative soul incorporates an inanimate form.)TheOFloinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14756711106266484327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-14933753196617787672010-03-11T11:12:51.334-08:002010-03-11T11:12:51.334-08:00Correction in last line
human and non-human soulCorrection in last line<br /><br />human and non-human soulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-18359831446705898862010-03-11T11:09:48.194-08:002010-03-11T11:09:48.194-08:00A recent source of info that describes Aristotle&#...A recent source of info that describes Aristotle's view on slave souls and animal souls.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQkbC2JnRFI&feature=channel<br /><br />Someone here blamed DesCartes, as though all was well for the creatures in Christendom before...Look into how Augustine said we should treat the 'brutes'<br /><br />Read some theologians Regan, Lindsay, or Webb.<br /><br />Aquinas only cared for animals in that how we treat them might affect US spiritually.<br /><br />Forgive me if I stop short. <br /><br />Whenever the animal-cruelty charge is made against western culture is denied with feigned incredulity and demands for proof that animals have been and still are horribly suffering by the Church doctrines (almost = A-T), I know the ones making the demands are seeking red herrings.<br /><br />It seems the devoted Catholics here choose to ignore JP II's clear pronouncements on the sameness of animal and creature souls - why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8954608646904080796.post-24682457711970516592010-03-11T10:31:00.446-08:002010-03-11T10:31:00.446-08:00As for applying this attitude to your philosophy, ...<i>As for applying this attitude to your philosophy, particularly A-T, if you grant near infallibility to these two figures (Aristotle and Aquinas), then you must explain away crimes due to their ideas, such as non-human animal cruelty resulting from holding that animals do not have souls like us, and perhaps worse, that slaves have souls even less sophisticated than the non-human animals.</i><br /><br />Goodness, you sound awfully <i>non-tentative</i> about the claims you're making here. Care to provide some actual evidence that A&A thought that slaves were less human than animals, or that their views have served as a substantial cause of animal cruelty? Or how any of this slander has anything to do with the truth of Ed's claims, for that matter?<br /><br />Or is this something you don't have to be tentative about, because it's just something "everybody knows" ("everybody" meaning you and your enlightened friends). Or in other words, "tentativeness for thee, but not for me".The Deucehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09664665914768916965noreply@blogger.com