Saturday, August 31, 2013

A gigantic book royalty check from nothing


Robert Lawrence Kuhn and John Leslie have written up a gracious and substantive reply to my recent First Things commentary on their anthology The Mystery of Existence: Why Is There Anything At All?  It will appear at the First Things website soon, as will my response.

In the meantime, a reader asks about a less serious contribution to the debate: some remarks made recently by Lawrence Krauss in a video over at Big Think.  I’ve commented on Krauss in a review of his book A Universe from Nothing for First Things and in a couple of earlier posts, here and here.  Is there anything new to be said?  Well, not by Krauss, that’s for sure.  It’s the same superficial stuff, presented with the same arrogant and uninformed confidence, and as usual barely acknowledging, much less seriously answering, the objections that have been leveled against him by atheists and theists alike.  But for that reason alone it is worthwhile exposing his errors now and again, as long as there’s a single benighted reader out there still inclined to take him seriously.

So let’s take a look.  And in good Lawrence Krauss fashion, he doesn’t hide his fallacies under a bushel but puts them on a pedestal for all to see.  This makes refutation not only easy but quick.  Consider, then, his very first sentence -- wherein, after urging us to be “careful” in our thinking he immediately flings carefulness violently to the ground and starts pummeling it.  Krauss asserts: 

[N]othing is a physical concept because it's the absence of something, and something is a physical concept. 

The trouble with this, of course, is that “something” is not a physical concept.  “Something” is what Scholastic philosophers call a transcendental, a notion that applies to every kind of being whatsoever, whether physical or non-physical -- to tables and chairs, rocks and trees, animals and people, substances and accidents, numbers, universals, and other abstract objects, souls, angels, and God.  Of course, Krauss doesn’t believe in some of these things, but that’s not to the point.  Whether or not numbers, universals, souls, angels or God actually exist, none of them would be physical if they existed.  But each would still be a “something” if it existed.  So the concept of “something” is broader than the concept “physical,” and would remain so even if it turned out that the only things that actually exist are physical.

No atheist philosopher would disagree with me about that much, because it’s really just an obvious conceptual point.  But since Krauss and his fans have an extremely tenuous grasp of philosophy -- or, indeed, of the obvious -- I suppose it is worth adding that even if it were a matter of controversy whether “something” is a physical concept, Krauss’s “argument” here would simply have begged the question against one side of that controversy, rather than refuted it.  For obviously, Krauss’s critics would not agree that “something is a physical concept.”  Hence, confidently to assert this as a premise intended to convince someone who doesn’t already agree with him is just to commit a textbook fallacy of circular reasoning.

Dutifully fulfilling his solemn pledge to give his readers “A fallacy in every sentence!”, Krauss goes on to say: 

And what we've learned over the last hundred years is that nothing is much more complicated than we would've imagined otherwise. 

So, “nothing” is complicated.  That implies that it has diverse parts, elements, aspects, or some such.  At the very least, a part or aspect A that is distinct from a part or aspect B.  But if A is different from B, then there must be something about it by virtue of which it is different.  In which case it isn’t true to say that there is nothing.  Indeed, Krauss goes on to describe “a kind of nothing” that might seem a “void” or an “infinite empty space,” when in fact “due to the laws of quantum mechanics and relativity, we now know that empty space is a boiling bubbling brew of virtual particles that are popping in and out of existence at every moment.”  Hence “nothing” is really “full of stuff.”

Well, somebody’s sure full of stuff here, but it isn’t “nothing.”  Because “stuff,” “space,” laws,” “particles,” and the like are each something.  In which case, what could it possibly mean to describe these things as aspects of “nothing”?  Have you ever heard such self-contradictory gibberish before?  Of course you have, because you’ve read Lawrence Krauss before.   

The rest is another rehash of the same brazen bait-and-switch Krauss has been repeatedly called out on by friend and foe alike for almost two years now.  Here’s how physics gives you something from nothing, where for “nothing” read “the laws of quantum mechanics,” which are, of course, not nothing but pay no attention to that sophist behind the curtain… 

Yet Krauss does think he’s got an answer to this problem.  The laws aren’t nothing, you say, but something?  Well, try this on for size: 

But even there, it turns out physics potentially has an answer because we now have good reason to believe that even the laws of physics themselves are kind of arbitrary.

There may be an infinite number of universes, and in each universe that's been created, the laws of physics are different. It's completely random. And the laws themselves come into existence when the universe comes into existence. So there's no pre-existing fundamental law. Anything that can happen, does happen. And therefore, you got no laws, no space, no time, no particles, no radiation. That's a pretty good definition of nothing. 

End quote.  What Krauss is referring to here is, of course, his preferred variation on the currently faddish “multiverse” idea, as set out in A Universe from Nothing.  But on the multiverse scenario, it is not precisely correct to say that “there’s no pre-existing fundamental law.”  By “not precisely correct” I mean “false.”  For as Krauss himself says at pp. 176-77 of A Universe from Nothing, a multiverse might exist “in the form of a landscape of universes existing in a host of extra dimensions,” or it might instead take “the form of a possibly infinitely replicating set of universes in a three-dimensional space.”  It would be governed by “the general principle that anything that is not forbidden is allowed.”  Though “we don’t currently have a fundamental theory that explains the detailed character of the landscape of a multiverse,” to make progress in such theorizing “we generally assume that certain properties, like quantum mechanics, permeate all possibilities.”  And it could turn out that there are “millions of layers” of laws.   

Needless to say, “extra dimensions,” “three-dimensional space,” “general principles,” “the detailed character of a landscape,” “properties,” “quantum mechanics,” and “millions of layers of laws” are not nothing, but a whole helluva lot of something.

Recently we had the wood floors in one of the rooms of our house redone.  Naturally we had to empty the room before work could start.  Suppose that when the wood floor guy showed up to begin, everything had been moved out except for one large bookcase.  Annoyed, he asks me why I didn’t empty the room as I had agreed to do.  Suppose I haughtily replied: 

No beds, no floor rugs, no chairs, no lamps, no bookcases.  That’s a pretty good definition of an empty room.   

My wood floor guy would no doubt reply: “No it’s not, dumbass.  You have, by your own admission, still got one bookcase in there.  Therefore it’s not empty.  I thought you taught logic?”   

Of course, the room might be close enough to “empty” for some purposes.  We might even speak loosely of there being “nothing” in it.  That’s fine for most everyday contexts, where we needn’t always use terms precisely.  But of course, it’s not good enough for every context, as the wood floor example shows.  And it certainly isn’t good enough for philosophical and scientific contexts, where we need precision.  Krauss, a prominent physicist whose work drips with contempt for the philosophers and theologians he regards as sloppy thinkers, and who urges us to be “careful” in our use of language, can’t see what the wood floor guy can.   

The reason, of course, is that the wood floor guy doesn’t have a vested interest in denying the obvious.  He hasn’t spent two years loudly shooting his mouth off about how stupid people are who think that a room with a bookcase in it isn’t really empty, and he doesn’t have a New York Times bestseller, lectures, debates, or a Big Think video devoted to confidently promoting the view that a room with a bookcase in it is empty.  Ergo he doesn’t face the utterly humiliating prospect of having to admit that since a room with a bookcase in it isn’t strictly empty, the people he’s derided as stupid actually have a point, and the book, lectures, video, etc. have all been a waste of time.   

The irony is that admitting the pickle Krauss has gotten himself into would be the one thing that might save him.  For Krauss has managed to parlay a set of completely worthless ideas into fame and fortune.  He’s gotten a big chunk of the “reality-based community” to swallow the notion that a book-length exercise in committing the fallacies of equivocation and red herring counts as Big Thinking.  He’s gotten an army of Dawkins Youth seriously to believe that while the rigorously worked out metaphysical demonstrations of an Aquinas or a Leibniz are really just loose “god of the gaps” speculations, the “multiverse” theory that is notoriously untestable and which Krauss himself admits lacks a “fundamental theory” is hard-headed empirical science.  Krauss might present his own recent career as the surest proof of his thesis: “You think something can’t come from nothing?  Just look at me! 

274 comments:

  1. In all the talk about free will, one point is mostly overlooked. It is not indeterminacy or acausality which is important here. In fact, the decisive question is whether we make choices, and the act of choice is dependent on a judgement between two or more options. That is, the freedom of the will resides precisely in our ability to reason.

    Unfortunately, many people seem to look to some sort of unanalysable inner impulse. In doing so, they remove the freedom, leaving our acts of will simply something which happens to us (or in the older sense, passions.)

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  2. @Glenn
    Until your most recent comment you have mentioned nothing beyond the will to function as a cause for evil choice, so it is the location at issue rather than time frame. Accidents are restricted to finite knowledge and thus are irrelevant to God’s design, which is what I was referring to as being amiss.

    Just like a plane first crashes, then the NTSB conducts an investigation, and, finally, a report is written assigning a cause for the plane having crashed

    It is more like an NTSB investigation concluding the first cause of the crash was in fact beneficial towards safety. At which point I am uncertain why it would be considered a first cause for the effect.

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  3. @urban jean:

    We're not (so far as I can see) off-topic in any significant way and this thread isn't so old that Ed has to moderate the posts, so why not continue it here while we can?

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  4. I see a bit of semantic sloppyness.

    I don't know what people mean by "random".

    Some seem to use it as "uncaused".

    Others merely mean "unpredictable".

    Another possibility is not predictable by known mechanisms (hash algorithms or other one-way functions) or the digits in a transcendental number - Pi seems less so but E (base of natural logs) seems strong as does the golden mean. The digits are deterministic but the Nth digit is unknown until computed.

    Irrational numbers have an infinite number of "random digits"

    Perhaps a related or more interesting question is if there are different infinities as Georg Cantor - Aleph 0 - countable, and the cardinality of real numbers. Is random to mean one of Aleph 0 possibilities, or some other cardinality?

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  5. Step2,

    God’s design...is what I was referring to as being amiss.

    What, in your estimation, is amiss with or about "God's design"?

    I'm asking out of curiosity, and promise not to say anything in response.

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  6. OK, Scott, on we go.

    I imagine metaphysical principles are of value and interest by virtue of the inferences we can draw from them. From there is a struck match can we infer there is a flame? No. From there is a flame can we infer there is a struck match? Again, No. Just what inferences can we draw from striking a match causes a flame? I'm not sure there are any, and this suggests to me that the central term 'causes' has no meaning. We do more or less understand 'match', 'strike', and 'flame'. So I have a fairly radical beef with 'causation'. I don't think it captures anything real in the world.

    The clear and I hope coherent claim that the physics account doesn't fit with Aristotelian or common sense causation is the observation that it contains no sentences of the form a causes b.

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  7. @urban jean:

    "I imagine metaphysical principles are of value and interest by virtue of the inferences we can draw from them."

    Not really—and not at all, if you're specifically referring to inferences about physical facts. In the case of the match and the flame, all the fourfold account of causation does is tell us what an explanation will look like or how it will be structured. (And of course not all four types of cause need be present in every instance.)

    Moreover, no one has ever seriously proposed that striking a match causes a flame is true under all conditions or none (except in the loose sense of "causes" as "tends to bring about if other conditions are right"). Obviously some other things have to be the case in order for a flame to result; some of those things may count properly as "conditions," but some of them may well be other causes (or, perhaps equivalently, parts of the cause). A fully detailed description of how a match causes a flame will even include intermediate causal steps, as the physical process itself surely doesn't just go directly from "match" to "flame" but includes some chemical and thermodynamic stuff in between.

    But that clearly doesn't mean the term "causes" has no meaning at all, or even that it's used incorrectly in the statement striking a match causes a flame. The meaning of "causes" is what it's always been: something making something else happen. And a full physical account positively helps us to see how striking a match "makes" there be a flame, giving the term "causes" the very precision you correctly note that it lacks when we use it broadly.

    "The clear and I hope coherent claim that the physics account doesn't fit with Aristotelian or common sense causation is the observation that it contains no sentences of the form a causes b."

    The account may not contain any such sentences, but that doesn't make it not fit with Aristotelian or common-sense causation. It doesn't contain any sentences about music, either. Does that mean physics is incompatible with music? (In fact a physical account of sound goes a long way toward helping us to understand music, whether it contains any sentences about "music" or not. So I'd hardly say they don't fit together.)

    In order to show that there's a problem here, you need to identify some positive mismatch between the physics and the metaphysics. I'm not seeing one.

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  8. It's probably also worth noting here (especially in view of what, at the time of this writing, is Ed's latest post) that even a physical account that never mentions the word "cause" still can't get around the concept of final causation. At its most fundamental level, final causation just means directedness toward an end; if mass/energy behave in certain ways, then they do so by nature and are in that sense directed toward those ends as final causes.

    I suppose it's possible to disagree with this account of final causation, but I seriously doubt it's possible to argue that it simply doesn't fit with physics at all. If there's something wrong with it, it's not its failure to comport with physics.

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  9. Glenn,

    Thanks for the responses, but they don’t make clear to me the metaphysics of free will according to A-T.

    We agree that we humans have the potency of choosing between good and evil. When we do choose then that potency is actualized by something already actual which is in our nature. Let’s for discussion’s sake call that what is already actual “free will”.

    Now before actualizing the choice free will itself is a potency, since it can actualize one or the other choice. By the same fundamental principle of A-T there is something already actual which actualizes human free will to move this or the other way. So, what is that actual? That’s my question.

    One potential answer could be that what is actual and moves the free will belongs to the free will. I.e. that free will is metaphysically self-caused. That happens to be my understanding, and also apparently Leibniz’s. But as you show Aquinas disagrees. So what is Aquinas’s understanding?

    Above you seem to indicate that it depends on whether the choice was for the good or for the evil. Fine, so let’s take the case that the actual choice was for the evil.

    Something concrete and actual does move the human will – so what’s it according to your understanding of Aquinas’s position? You point out that according to A-T evil is the privation of good, but this does not answer the question. Evil may be the privation of good, but the will’s actualization of the evil choice is a concrete and actual thing. And, moreover, that latter actual thing (whatever it is) is also an actualized potency. So what is *its* actualizer? Ultimately which is the first cause?

    Above you appear to suggest that all is ultimately moved (actualized) by God, for God is the only first mover. But also that human choice for evil is not ultimately moved by God, and rather that God only “endeavors to move” the human to choose the good, but the human “attenuates, converts, deflects, metastasizes, rejects, translates” and ends up choosing the evil. But this does not answer the question. What *is* the actual which moves human free will to actualize the evil choice?

    Perhaps you mean that that some evil impulse within fallen human nature which attenuates, converts, deflects, etc., is the actual which moves the free will? Is that what you are saying? If so, what actualizes that evil impulse?

    Is it perhaps some evil spirit which actualizes that evil impulse by deceiving the human’s intellect to reject God’s suggestion for the good? But then what actualizes that evil spirit’s success in so doing?

    It seems to me that A-T’s principle about potency and act forces on us these questions. I really wish to understand how you understand the matter. The problem I see should be evident. If only God can be the first cause, then it seems we are left with A-T entailing that God is the first cause of all actual evil choices by humans.

    And I wish that others who know more about A-T metaphysics than I do would suggest an answer to this line of questions. Scott suddenly stopped commenting on this matter, and I don’t know whether Ed is reading this.

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  10. @Dianelos:

    "Scott suddenly stopped commenting on this matter . . . "

    Sorry, I can only juggle so many geese at once. On this site alone I have a couple of other discussions in progress, never mind what I have going on in my offline life.

    "Let's for discussion's sake call that what is already actual 'free will'."

    If it's the A-T account of free will you're interested in, then let's start by noting that for Aquinas, "free will" is an appetitive power. We exercise it when, and only when, we choose our actions based on the judgment of reason.

    I'm not sure it quite makes sense in A-T terms to talk about the exercise of a power as "actualizing" it, but even if it does, I don't think that's the best way to approach your question.

    "Now before actualizing the choice free will itself is a potency, since it can actualize one or the other choice. By the same fundamental principle of A-T there is something already actual which actualizes human free will to move this or the other way. So, what is that actual? That's my question."

    This is a confused and confusing way of posing the question. What hasn't yet been actualized before its exercise in any particular case is the result of the choice. "Free will" itself is an actually existing power, and according to A-T, what moves it is its object, i.e., what the intellect understands to be good. This understanding may be incomplete or imperfect, and the exercise of one's will (note that I deliberately didn't say "free will") may be complicated by other non-rational factors.

    "So what is Aquinas's understanding?"

    That God is the first cause of one's free will just as God is the first cause of everything else, and that He concurs in its exercise just as He concurs in the action of any other power or secondary cause. "Voluntary" for Aquinas just means "in accordance with the inclination of the will"; it's no more a problem for God to be the first cause of voluntary actions than it is for Him to be the first cause of anything else's acting in accordance with its nature.

    That a choice may be for "evil" is neither here nor there. On its positive side, it's good as far as it goes (both in the sense that it has being and in the sense that it's aimed at something judged to be good), and it's in this respect that God can be said to be its cause.

    (Of course, as I suggested above, we can also make choices that are, as we say, "against our better judgment," and in such cases Aquinas would say that we're exercising not our "free will" but rather the will that we share with the non-rational animals. But I don't see that this calls for any special explanation here.)

    Again, if it's A-T metaphysics you want to understand, then it's merely confusing to talk about anything "actualizing evil." "Evil," as awful as it can be, isn't a positive reality; it's an incomplete actualization of a positive good. What is actualized is, thus far, good, with God as its first cause, and that's all there is to it.

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  11. "Now before actualizing the choice free will itself is a potency, since it can actualize one or the other choice. By the same fundamental principle of A-T there is something already actual which actualizes human free will to move this or the other way. So, what is that actual? That's my question."

    I agree that this is confused. I would suggest the following: Before actualizing the choice (i.e., exercising its operation) the will in itself is a particular power which is in potency to its own operation, since it can actualize one or the other choice. But how does it do so? How is such an exercise of the power to will possible?

    The operation of the will (i.e., the act of the willing agent) depends on the operation of the intellect (the apprehensive power) because the intellect provides an object for the will to aim at; the intellect supplies the final causality which makes possible/intelligible the will's efficient causality. In this sense I would hesitate to say with Scott simply that "what moves the will/'free will' is its object, i.e., what the intellect understands to be good." It seems to me that the will moves itself - efficiently - towards the object given by the intellect. And it may move towards some object (i.e., some bonum appetibile, some good towards which it can be drawn) with necessity, when that object is one that is necessarily given by the intellect as the supreme good or as necessarily connected to the supreme good. But when the apprehensive power provides the will with only particular goods, without any demonstration of the connection of these to man's final end/supreme good, then the will's inclination both *follows from* the intellect's (limited) apprehension of the good, and *leads* the intellect in its dialectical progress towards a better, more adequate apprehension of particular goods and the supreme good. In the beatific vision, the intellect is given an adequate apprehension of the supreme good such that the will is provided with an object towards which it will freely but necessarily/infallibly incline, since it is adequately grasped by the intellect as the supreme bonum appetibile, i.e., as the object which constitutes the (only) genuine fulfillment of its own knowing and willing nature.

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  12. ...and of course with original sin, and even more so with the rise of particular anti-intellectualisms (such as 'post-modernism'), we see the induced failure of the intellect to clearly apprehend itself as a bonum appetibile, and consequently the crippling of the will's ability to engage in the search for a more adequate apprehension of the truth, for an apprehension of the 'absolute' truth.

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  13. @David M:

    "In this sense I would hesitate to say with Scott simply that 'what moves the will/"free will" is its object, i.e., what the intellect understands to be good.'"

    Fair enough, and I certainly think your own elaboration seems to me to be a much better and more thorough summary of Aquinas's own account of the matter than my own brief remark.

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  14. Oops, an incomplete edit: "I certainly think your own elaboration seems to me to be" should be "I certainly think your own elaboration is."

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  15. Scott, I understand that 'all the fourfold account of causation does is tell us what an explanation will look like or how it will be structured.' If an explanation has an efficient cause component then this will presumably contain assertions of the form x causes y. These themselves may be supplemented with or elaborated into further statements of this form, but you appear to be saying that an efficient causal explanation has to be 'causes all the way down'. The claim that an explanation must have this form is obviously in some tension with our acceptance as explanations of physics accounts in which causes do not appear. This is the mismatch I'm try to get you to see, and why I said much earlier that cause-free physics accounts are a form of explanation not encompassed by Aristotle's doctrine, and hence the latter must be considered inadequate.

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  16. @urban jean:

    "This is . . .  why I said much earlier that cause-free physics accounts are a form of explanation not encompassed by Aristotle's doctrine, and hence the latter must be considered inadequate."

    I'd say the inadequacy, if there is one, is rather the other way around—at least if such accounts are offered as explanations rather than descriptions.

    Then again, if I recall correctly, Aristotle himself didn't use the term cause for any of the four causes either; it was the Scholastic philosophers who turned (for example) Aristotle's ὑλη into causa materialis—"material cause" rather than just "material." (Not that Aristotle didn't use the term αἴτιον at all, of course, but he didn't require it to appear in an explanation.)

    At any rate I'm not seeing anything in a mere cause-free description that Aristotle can't account for. Nor do I see any reason to think that just because even an (attempted) explanation may not include statements of the form x causes y, it doesn't comport with Aristotelian metaphysics. For example, as I mentioned in another post, if physical laws are really supposed to be laws, then they include final causation whether that's expressly stated or not.

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  17. Dianelos,

    The problem I see should be evident. If only God can be the first cause, then it seems we are left with A-T entailing that God is the first cause of all actual evil choices by humans.

    For the sake of simplicity, let's refer to an actual evil choice by a human as that human misusing his free-will for an evil purpose. Now, it is true that God is the first cause of a man's free-will, and it is true that a man might misuse his free-will for an evil purpose. What seems evident to me, however, is that if a man should misuse his free-will for an evil purpose, and that misuse should be seen as a problem, then it isn't A-T which has the problem, but the man who misused his free-will.

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  18. What, in your estimation, is amiss with or about "God's design"?

    That is a big question I don't have a great answer to. For a start I believe the problem of evil is a defeater for classical theism. There are some aesthetic formulations (negative space, contrast) that could suffice for the POE which preserve omnipotence but they refute divine goodness.

    On a slightly different topic, I think Aquinas upended Aristotle's ethics of the Golden Mean by construing evil as a privation, which I think was an Augustinian framework that acts as a type of denial. A denial with strange consequences as Walker Percy noted, the Greek pagans were in harmony with their sensuous and erotic feelings, but in Christianity those became an enemy, a demonic spirit.

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  19. Can we get clear on this, Scott? In your view the accounts that physics gives for natural phenomena have no explanatory value?

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  20. @urban jean:

    "Can we get clear on this, Scott? In your view the accounts that physics gives for natural phenomena have no explanatory value?"

    What have I said that made you think that was my view? As far as I'm concerned, even a purely descriptive account has, or at least can have, some "explanatory value" even if it doesn't itself constitute an explanation. It was you who said a while back that physics was only in the business of providing descriptions.

    In general it should be fairly obvious by now that I think (a) modern physical accounts of natural phenomena are entirely consistent with, and indeed positively in conformance with, Aristotelian metaphysics in general and its account of causation in particular, and (b) physical accounts conforming to such metaphysics are, thus far, explanatory (or at least capable of being so even if in any particular case such a proposed account turns out to be wrong).

    The only point I'm really disputing in this thread is your claim that there's something in modern physics that actively conflicts with the Aristotelian account of causation. What I'm trying to get clear on is exactly what that's supposed to be.

    I don't think you've even made out your weaker (and logically quite different even though you don't distinguish it) claim that the Aristotelian account of causation is "inadequate" because it fails to encompass some shiny new sort of physical "explanation."

    It certainly isn't sufficient that statements of the form x causes y don't (or needn't) appear in a collection of mathematical formulas; they needn't appear in Aristotelian explanations either. You seem to think that Aristotelianism demands that statements of metaphysical principles show up in physical accounts, and if they don't, it's a somehow black mark against Aristotelianism. It just ain't so.

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  21. (When I say "they needn't appear in Aristotelian explanations either," I don't mean that contrast to imply that a set of mathematical formulas can't be at least part of an Aristotelian explanation.)

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  22. David M,

    Thanks for this clarification. (And thanks Scott for the link to Aquinas’s actual thought.)

    I don’t pretend to follow in detail Aquinas’s text, but I think it is clear that according to his understanding the will moves itself – and has the power to move itself towards the good object revealed by the intellect, or else against it. Thus free will is a kind of first or unmoved mover. Perhaps Aquinas would agree with Leibniz’s dictum that free will makes “little gods” of us.

    Now that human free will is a kind of unmoved mover does not affect God’s sovereignty, or God’s status as what is metaphysically ultimate, in the following sense: Creaturely free will does have limited power to move itself, but what makes free will and its powers actual is God.

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  23. Hi Scott, and thanks for sticking with this. I note that you admit that physical accounts conforming to such metaphysics are explanatory, which sounds potentially question-begging, but you also say that modern physical accounts are in such conformance, so I'll take you as agreeing with me that physics accounts are indeed explanatory. The physics account I have in mind is the explanation of light in terms of electromagnetic waves propagating according to Maxwell's equations in vacuo. Now, my understanding, and I may have this quite wrong, is that A's doctrine holds that any explanation must consist of elements taking one of the four basic forms. What I cannot see at the moment is (a) how the Aristotelian language of substance, artifact, or what have you, accommodates the idea of 'field', and (b) how the language of material, formal, efficient, and final cause accommodates the relations between the electric and magnetic fields that are described by Maxwell's differential equations. Perhaps I should add that I see it as no discredit to A that he failed to foresee scientific and mathematical concepts that took two further millennia to crystallise.

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  24. @Dianelos:

    "Thus free will is a kind of first or unmoved mover."

    If it moves itself, then a fortiori it moves, so it can't very well be unmoved.

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  25. @urban jean:

    "What I cannot see at the moment is (a) how the Aristotelian language of substance, artifact, or what have you, accommodates the idea of 'field', and (b) how the language of material, formal, efficient, and final cause accommodates the relations between the electric and magnetic fields that are described by Maxwell's differential equations."

    Well, let's take it a step at a time, then.

    First of all, Aristotle's fourfold account of causation is pretty much about things. What, if anything, would you say are the things that Maxwell's equations are ultimately about? Or are they ultimately about stuff that just isn't very "thing"-y? Generally, what is the fundamental physical reality that the equations describe? (Please feel free to go into as much detail as you think you need. You won't scare me off with mathematics; I have a master's degree in the subject, and it includes sufficient background in physics for the current topic.)

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  26. @Dianelos:

    Also, it would be a grave mistake to take Aquinas as regarding "free will" as a first mover. For Aquinas, the first mover is God, period. If the will moves itself, it does so as a secondary cause that still requires divine concurrence.

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  27. Let's say we are talking about a 'thing' that pervades space and has six measurable properties at each point.

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  28. @urban jean:

    "Let's say we are talking about a 'thing' that pervades space and has six measurable properties at each point."

    Let's not, unless you're saying that the field itself is the fundamental physical reality in question. What's "really out there" that the equations are describing? Is there a more fundamental physical reality that "causes" the field, or is the field itself physically basic? (For that matter, is the field itself even physically real at all, or is it a mathematical abstraction that approximates the physical reality?)

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  29. Interesting questions, Scott, but I worry that they are relevant to the problem at hand, which is to assimilate the physics language of fields and equations to the Aristotelian language of substances, etc, and causes. Let's proceed on the classical assumption that fields are real and indeed basic. If this turns out to be wrong it doesn't alter their status as explanation, just as discovering 'fault in ignition system' doesn't alter the status of 'no petrol in tank' as an explanation of 'car won't start'.

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  30. @urban jean:

    "Interesting questions, Scott, but I worry that they are [ir?]relevant to the problem at hand, which is to assimilate the physics language of fields and equations to the Aristotelian language of substances, etc, and causes."

    Well, what I'm trying to get at is what you regard as the underlying physical reality that we're trying to deal with. In Aristotle's metaphysics, the fundamental entities are substances, so I'm just trying to see whether there's something here that might qualify. But let's let that pass.

    I also wouldn't say that we're trying to assimilate the language of one to the language of the other; nothing in Aristotelian metaphysics says that everything worth saying whatsoever, or even every sort of explanation, has to be in those precise terms. I think it does imply, though, that in the end, other sorts of explanation "go on top of" explanations in terms of the four causes and so forth.

    "Let's proceed on the classical assumption that fields are real and indeed basic."

    Okay, that's fine. Now then, can we characterize a "field" in physical terms? The mathematical description, I think we're well aware, is an approximation in the electromagnetic case, and at any rate I don't think physical space has literal vectors or 3-tuples stuck out there all over its geometric points. What does it mean physically for a "field" to exist in space? What does it do? What happens differently because it's there? What sort of physical behavior do our mathematical descriptions represent?

    Now, if it's "fields" generally that we're concerned with, then it might be simplest to start with an electric field, or even a gravitational field, rather than an electromagnetic field. But if you'd prefer to stick to electromagnetic fields, that's fine.

    One point I definitely want to get to, though, for whichever kind of field is at issue, is the fact that it tells us how to compute the force (of one kind or another) that will act on a particle of the relevant type when it's located at a point within the field. Does that strike you as an important physical fact about it that answers some of the questions about physical behavior that I raised above? If so, do you know enough about the Aristotelian concept of "potency" to see why I think it's relevant?

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  31. And since I'm going to be busy later and especially tomorrow, let me just cut to the chase on another issue that I think I can discuss generally, without having to settle anything about "substances."

    Consider an electromagnetic wave (and ignore all the wave-vs.-particle issues for now). Whatever it is that we take to be the underlying substance or agency (fields, space itself, something else as yet unknown, or what have you), there's some highly coordinated behavior going on here—a "uniformity of conduct" among all the bits (whatever these are) that in some way involves their "working together" to produce the physical phenomenon we describe as a self-propagating transverse wave.

    Even at this broad level of generality we can see both efficient and final causality going on. There's some ordering principle at work here, of which our mathematical formulations provide an approximate description. Speaking of which, the mathematical structure of the wave also looks an awful lot like a "formal cause" (or at least an approximate description of one).

    Finally, I don't think we quite know what (if anything) is the "material" cause of the wave, but what that is (and indeed whether it has one at all, which Aristotelian metaphysics doesn't strictly require) is the question that physicists are trying to answer when they try to figure out just what it is that's waving.

    Now, whether that's the precise analysis that Aristotle himself would have given if he were here today, I don't know. But it does seem to me that a mathematical description of a physical phenomenon—in this case an electromagnetic wave—bears all the earmarks of what Aristotle would have regarded as a causal explanation, whether or not statements of the form x causes y (or even the word "cause" at all) appear in that description. When we understand Maxwell's equations, we understand something about electromagnetic waves—and what we understand seems susceptible to an Aristotelian analysis, or at most to a not very daring extension of it that not only doesn't contradict, but positively includes, the basic features he says we find in causal explanations.

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  32. Nice cartoon of Bullwinkle performing a magic trick. It has to be pointed out, though, that Bullwinkle didn't pull the book from nothing. Bullwinkle, at least, had a hat! :-) ~ Mark

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  33. Nice cartoon of Bullwinkle performing a magic trick. It has to be pointed out, though, that Bullwinkle didn't pull the book from nothing. Bullwinkle, at least, had a hat! :-) ~ Mark

    But that's the neat thing about cartoons with a (seemingly) magic theme -- they:

    a) employ misdirection (such as having a hat held beneath a book); and,

    b) thereby imply to its entertainees that one thing went on (e.g., that the book was pulled from the hat), when really it was something else that went on (e.g., the book was pulled from nothing).

    :-)

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  34. A minor clarification/correction:

    I said that "Aristotelian metaphysics doesn't strictly require" that an electromagnetic wave have a material cause. As it stands, this is almost certainly incorrect; if the wave has a spatial location (or, equivalently, if there can be two such waves at two different locations), then it can't just be pure form.

    What I should have said is that Aristotelian metaphysics doesn't strictly require it to have a material cause that we can characterize in any positive way. It's entirely possible that we've "bottomed out" and reached the level of prime matter, which (unlike the bronze material of a statue) has no further form of its own and indeed doesn't exist at all other than as "informed."

    The alternative (for hylemorphism) is that at each level of form there's a further level of matter that has form(s) of its own, all the way down forever in an infinite sequence of levels. I don't think Aristotle would have accepted this alternative; at any rate, if we don't, then we have to acknowledge that it's possible to arrive at a level that has nothing below it with any "form."

    Whether that's actually the case with an electromagnetic wave or not, I don't know; I'm inclined to doubt it but I can't articulate any good reason for my doubt. But either way, the Aristotelian account of causation doesn't require that we be able to give a positive characterization to the "stuff" the wave is "made of," whether because we just don't know yet or because it doesn't admit of any such characterization.

    Or so it seems to me. As always, if anyone else has any thoughts, they'll be welcome; the fact that I'm in this conversation with urban jean doesn't mean nobody else can jump in.

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  35. Urban Jean: What I cannot see at the moment is (b) how the language of material, formal, efficient, and final cause accommodates the relations between the electric and magnetic fields that are described by Maxwell's differential equations.

    Equations just are formal causes; and since physics is supposed to be a branch of science and not a branch of mathematics, then material causes must figure in there somewhere too. So half of the four causes apply to physics right off the bat. And if anything happens in the physical world, then we've got efficient and final causes too. (As Scott points out, even if a mathematical model happens to leave out this half of causation, there has to be a reason why physicists think and talk this way, even if only some of the time.)

    Perhaps I should add that I see it as no discredit to A that he failed to foresee scientific and mathematical concepts that took two further millennia to crystallise.

    That is true, of course; however, I have found that in practice, whenever someone posts here that "Aristotle couldn't have known ___", it inevitably turns out that he did know. (Not in full detail of course — obviously he didn't know quantum mechanics, for example — but the general principles involved seem to be quite well accounted for when taken in their proper context.)

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  36. Hi, Scott. Yes, the Lorentz force felt by a charge tells us the E and B at any place, so I can see why one might view the EM field as a potency to accelerate charge. As to what it is that's waving, well, I think all we can say is that it's the potency that's wav(er)ing---the field strengths just go up and down.

    Hello Mr G, and thanks for coming in. Yes, I think there is a strong temptation to see Maxwell's equations themselves as a formal explanation of (change in) the EM field, and I'm a bit surprised Scott hasn't made more of this (as yet). As to the other three kinds of Aristotelian explanation, am I being unfair if I say that your brief remarks so far are hardly an independent case for their relevance to this example? Rather, you appear to be saying, assuming Aristotle is correct, then they must be there. If that is right then the challenge is actually to furnish one or more.

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  37. @urban jean:

    As someone standing in the sidelines, I have to say that I find your comments utterly baffling. But, in your last comment one sentence seems to confirm one suspicion I had all along:

    "As to the other three kinds of Aristotelian explanation, am I being unfair if I say that your brief remarks so far are hardly an independent case for their relevance to this example? Rather, you appear to be saying, assuming Aristotle is correct, then they must be there. If that is right then the challenge is actually to furnish one or more."

    So your reasoning seems to be: AT metaphysics is either wrong, or at least irrelevant as far as modern physics goes. To test this latter claim, you present an example of physics and challenge the Aristotelian to carve it out and snuggly fit it into its framework, and if they fail, presto, you have proven your case. But, as a point of methodology, this the wrong way to go about the issue. On the other hand, since I have no inclination (or the expertise) to offer a lesson on the philosophy of nature and you seemed enthralled by physical irrelevancies, let us then talk about physical irrelevancies.

    (1) What the experimental devices detect is not the electro-magnetic field but photons, the U(1)-gauge bosons exchanged by charged fermions. Do you have any reason to believe that fields, rather than their second quantization excitations, are the real substances?

    (2) Let us grant for the sake of argument, that classical electro-magnetism obtains exactly in our universe. To simplify things, assume space-time is the Minkowski space-time M. Under these conditions, the electro-magnetic field F is a section of the bundle of 2-forms. The Maxwell equations are then:

    (A) dF = 0, d*F = 0

    Now what? Are you telling us that there is a real thing out there responding to the name of "Minkowski space-time"? That there is really out there such a thing as as the bundle L^2(TM) -> M of 2-forms? Translate everything into ZFC, then equations (A) are statements about sets of sets of sets, etc. Is that what the electro-magnetic field is, a set of sets of sets, etc.? Most mathematics needed to do ordinary physics is formalizable in subsystems of second order arithmetic. Since I do not know the exact details, assume it is formalizable in finite order arithmetic. Then (A) is a statement about sequence of sequences, etc. of natural numbers. Is that what the electro-magnetic field is, a sequence of sequences, etc. of natural numbers?

    (3) The point of (2) above, besides illustrating what it strikes me as the irrelevancy of this line of enquiry, is that a naive reading off of the mathematical formalisms of a physical theory has absolutely no ontological import: mathematics does not drive the ontology. Physics provides the explanandum for the (scientifically informed) metaphysician, but by itself cannot decide metaphysical issues. The formal object of physics is, roughly speaking, the metrical, measurable properties of material bodies in motion or change. Change, in its broadest sense, is thus "invisible" to physics, as are "substance", "form", "matter", "act" and "potency". As are, in a different direction, Hilbert spaces, manifolds, functors or differential forms. To think that metaphysical issues have their testing grounds in whatever is spitted out by the brilliant zanny heads at the Princeton institute is a scientistic prejudice betraying a rather narrow view of human knowledge.

    (4) And if you think that I am just evading your question, then I will say that yes, as you said above: "assuming Aristotle is correct, then they must be there". By modus ponens, if you have p, p => q, then q. Grin.

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  38. A correction: the second Maxwell equation is d*F = J where J is the current 3-form.

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  39. In reply to grodrigues:

    A naive reading off of the mathematical formalisms of a physical theory has absolutely no ontological import. Agreed.

    The formal object of physics is, roughly speaking, the metrical, measurable properties of material bodies in motion or change. Agreed.

    Change, in its broadest sense, is thus "invisible" to physics. Agreed, in so far as there is non-physical change outside the subject matter of physics.

    As are "substance", "form", "matter", "act" and "potency". Agreed. Whatever these are they are outside the subject matter of physics.

    Physics provides the explanandum for the (scientifically informed) metaphysician, but by itself cannot decide metaphysical issues. Not sure what you mean by this. If the thought is that the kinds of explanation offered by physics are of philosophical interest, then agreed. What I've been trying to suggest here, and I think Scott gets the idea, is that the explanations of physics, which we could categorise as 'hypothetical-deductive', are a new form of explanation that first makes its appearance in the seventeenth century and isn't fully understood until the twentieth. In particular, this form of explanation doesn't fit in Aristotle's taxonomy and was not foreseen by him. Is this betraying a narrow view of human knowledge? Hardly, I think. But if an example of a hypothetical-deductive explanation in this modern sense can be found in the works of Aristotle, which I only know second-hand, or someone provides a good argument to show that physics explanations reduce to the four causes, then my case is seriously weakened.

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  40. @urban jean:

    "What I've been trying to suggest here, and I think Scott gets the idea, is that the explanations of physics, which we could categorise as 'hypothetical-deductive', are a new form of explanation that first makes its appearance in the seventeenth century and isn't fully understood until the twentieth. In particular, this form of explanation doesn't fit in Aristotle's taxonomy and was not foreseen by him."

    Well, I think I've understood the general drift of your approach, but now I'm puzzled by your reference specifically to "hypothetical-deductive" explanation.

    I understand what's generally meant by the (or "a") hypothetical-deductive method: form a hypothesis, deduce a testable consequence from it, test whether the consequence occurs, and if it doesn't, there's a problem with the hypothesis.

    But what this boils down to is essentially a judicious use of modus tollens applied to well-chosen empirical observations. I see nothing in it that offers a new form of explanation, just an approach to testing (by attempting to falsify) proposed "explanations" or hypotheses of any kind whatsoever. I don't even see that it depends on any particular account of causality or could in principle be incompatible with any such account.

    Can you elaborate?

    (I'll be offline pretty much all day tomorrow, so again, please don't take it amiss if I have to wait a day or two in order to respond in any detail or depth.)

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  41. @urban jean:

    "Yes, I think there is a strong temptation to see Maxwell's equations themselves as a formal explanation of (change in) the EM field, and I'm a bit surprised Scott hasn't made more of this (as yet)."

    I did allude to the fact that the mathematical structure of an EM wave looks an awful lot like a formal cause, and my point was very similar to Mr. Green's; more will come of it if and when we continue that part of the discussion.

    In the meantime, be careful not to identify "formal cause" with "formal explanation." Knowing the formal cause of something may well (help to) explain it, but the formal cause itself is a real form, not an "explanation."

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  42. Hello Scott. I'll try. If your car won't start one morning you can use H-D reasoning to isolate the cause. It's not the fault of the battery because the lights are on and the engine turns over. As you say, modus tollens, nothing new there. Batteries are ordinary everyday objects and though few of us can explain what goes on inside them, we know them, as it were, by their effects. If it's not lighting the lights or turning the starter, it's not 'batterying' properly. With physics, and to a lesser extent perhaps, chemistry, and less still biology, it's not quite like this. Physics postulates entities, eg, electrons and fields that we can't see or touch, so we can't know of them in the same way we now of ordinary objects. Further, we don't know what they do, ie, their effects, in the way we know the effects of ordinary things. Instead we postulate their behaviour, eg, Lorentz force, Maxwell's equations. We claim that ordinary objects are assemblages of vast numbers of these entities. If we are lucky we can deduce the expected behaviour of these assemblages from the microscopic equations. In so far as the deduced behaviour replicates the observed macroscopic behaviour we take our postulates to be 'getting nature right'. In the end what we are doing is inspired guesswork, but we call it possessing 'scientific knowledge'. Anyone who is adept at thinking with these hypotheticals feels that they are explanatory of natural phenomena. Even when one set of hypotheses is shown to be a bit out of whack with observation, and ripe for replacement by a better set, we sometimes cling to the first set and continue to feel that it has explanatory value. Now all this may be saying more about the way we think than about the way the world is, but that's what I think metaphysics actually is---more about us than the world. Perhaps that will be controversial, but I don't mean to start another hare. Part of this view is that our ordinary modern idea of 'cause' is a rough and ready beast that somehow comes from our carving the world into everyday objects. As we go down in scale this idea seems to run out of explanatory steam. Once we get to the size of our hypothetical particles 'cause' has evaporated and we are left with just the equations to guide us. There are no causal 'micro-bangings', as some recent authors put it. And note that all this applies within the deterministic picture of classical physics, before we take on board the twentieth century developments (where the discussion started if you remember).

    I have wandered off the point. To sum up. The chief characteristics of H-D explanation in physics are (a) the postulation of unseen and unseeable entities, (b) a characterisation of their behaviour in mathematical terms, and (c) methods for deducing macroscopic behaviour from the microscopic. I claim that this is a new genre of explanation that gradually emerges over the course of the modern era, irreducible to traditional modes of explanation.

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  43. @urban jean:

    Okay, that's a good clear statement and I think I understand the basic issue. Thanks for the elaboration; that will probably save us working though specific examples.

    I'll try to get back to you with a longer reply sometime on Sunday; I'm afraid I have a fairly full plate at the moment.

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  44. Hi Scott. You did indeed suggest that mathematical structure might be seen as a formal cause. I think this is the hardest of the four kinds of cause for me to dispose of, but I do have an argument. More later perhaps.

    I appreciate that 'formal' in 'formal cause' refers to 'form' in the technical Aristotelian sense. But I have also seen the example of concrete architects plans taken as the formal cause of a building, in the sense of explanation. Why is the building like that? Because it was built according to these plans.

    I look forward to our next exchange.

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  45. @urban jean:

    "I appreciate that 'formal' in 'formal cause' refers to 'form' in the technical Aristotelian sense. But I have also seen the example of concrete architects plans taken as the formal cause of a building, in the sense of explanation. Why is the building like that? Because it was built according to these plans."

    Well, anyone who offered such an example in exactly the form in which you've summarized it here was guilty of the same confusion/ambiguity/imprecision.

    Consider an illustration. I move my mouth, tongue, larynx, diaphragm, et cetera, and make the sounds ee-gl. As it happens, I'm speaking English, I'm saying the word eagle, and I'm referring to a certain bird of prey.

    Now suppose instead that I make exactly the same bodily movements and make exactly the same sounds, but I'm speaking German and saying the word Igel, meaning "hedgehog."

    The point is that what I'm saying depends on my intention. There's nothing whatsoever in the physics that tells you which meaning I intended; if by "the word I spoke" you merely mean "the bodily movements I made and/or the compression waves I thereby set up in the air," there's nothing in the "word" to tell you what it means. The physical reality is the same in each of the two cases.

    Likewise, there's nothing in an "architectural plan" considered solely as a physical object that carries any meaning as to the nature of the architect's intent. Whatever "meaning" a blueprint has is derived from the meaning and purpose of the architect.

    The "formal cause" of the building in your example is most assuredly not the set of ink-marks on paper that constitute the physical being of the plan; the "formal cause" of the building is the form that those marks represent.

    If that makes sense to you, then we have a head start on the next round of discussion.

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  46. @urban jean:

    I have a few minutes to spare before going out of town today, so I'll briefly follow up on my last post. I like the blueprint example so I'll stick with it for the moment.

    Whether or not you yourself believe that "forms" exist, at least I think you can see why an Aristotelian would regard a set of architectural plans as embodying one—indeed the same one that eventually gets embodied in the building itself.

    Now, the reason I think it's important to distinguish between the blueprint and the form it embodies is highly relevant to the present discussion. If we simply identify the blueprint with the form of the building, we overlook an important function of the blueprint: it conveys or communicates the form of the building from the architect to the other people who are going to build it.

    In other words, it helps to explain the building to them by "explaining" its form. In that sense the blueprint could be said to be a "formal explanation" of the building, but it isn't itself the formal cause of the building. It embodies the form of the building in some way, yes, but (mainly) in its final cause (conveying that form from one intellect to another).

    . . . not unlike a set of partial differential equations.

    I have to express a very slight disagreement with Mr. Green here, because I want to make the same distinction between Maxwell's equations and the form they express that I made between the architectural plans and the form they express. I would therefore not quite say that equations just are formal causes; I think they express formal causes, and thus have the expression of those formal causes as their own final causes.

    So—and here's the main point—would it be fair to say that, in the hypothetical-deductive method as applied to electromagnetic fields, what we're trying to do is find the form they embody, and convey it to ourselves and others by expressing it in a set of mathematical equations? And that the purpose of the experiments and observations is to test whether or not a certain formal cause is present (by finding out whether its expected effects occur)?

    I'll have more time to follow up on this tomorrow.

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  47. I suppose I should make the connection with "explanation" a bit more explicit.

    What I'm suggesting is that the purpose of the experiments in the hypothetical-deductive method, as applied to the physics of things we can't see and touch, is to test for the presence of a formal cause, and the purpose of the equations we develop to describe it is to explain that cause to us.

    In other words, what's being explained is the form itself, the formal structure or formal cause of the underlying physical reality, and what's doing the explaining is the mathematics in which we embody that form in order to express and convey it to ourselves and each other.

    And now I really do have to get ready to go out of town!

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  48. Scott: I have to express a very slight disagreement with Mr. Green here, because I want to make the same distinction between Maxwell's equations and the form they express that I made between the architectural plans and the form they express.

    We probably don't actually disagree on this (nor on your other points). I'd say that the word "equation" can refer to the abstract mathematical relationship, as well as to the expression thereof in symbols, etc. Arguably that usage is loose or slightly metaphorical, but that's how I was thinking of it, anyway. I certainly agree with the distinction you make between the form and its expression.

    (There are also possible distinctions between physics as an idealised model, and actual physical stuff, and other details which I do not think are wrong, but simply something we can gloss over to get at the fundamental point, which is that if math's involved, then we've got final causality no matter how the details play out when we investigate them more closely.)

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  49. @Mr. Green:

    "I'd say that the word 'equation' can refer to the abstract mathematical relationship, as well as to the expression thereof in symbols, etc."

    Yeah, I pretty much figured that was what you had in mind, and I'm happy to be in agreement with you. thanks for clarifying.

    My main purpose was just to bring out a point that such arguably loose or metaphorical usage tends to hide: that the equation-as-expression has an explanatory purpose that the equation-as-formal-cause does not, the latter being itself the underlying mathematical structure at issue and the former being our way of understanding and communicating it.

    What do you think of this general line of approach to urban jean's questions? In particular, do you think we're making progress toward understanding how the hypothetical-deductive method can be understood in terms of Aristotelian causation without invoking any new accounts of "explanation"?

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  50. @Mr. Green:

    "[I]f math's involved, then we've got final causality no matter how the details play out when we investigate them more closely."

    Agreed. So far I've been focusing mainly on formal causes, but I don't think there's any way to cash out "behaving in accordance with these equations" without invoking final causes.

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  51. Scott: the equation-as-expression has an explanatory purpose that the equation-as-formal-cause does not, the latter being itself the underlying mathematical structure at issue and the former being our way of understanding and communicating it.

    Agreed.

    In particular, do you think we're making progress toward understanding how the hypothetical-deductive method can be understood in terms of Aristotelian causation without invoking any new accounts of "explanation"?

    I think your comment about modus tollens was spot-on. In fact, I don't think there is anything new at all in science or the scientific method when it comes to accounts of explanation. "Try it and see if it works" is obvious to any human of normal intelligence. The scientific "revolution" is of course more a historical sound-bite (we have to chop up the facts into bite-sized pieces or it's too hard for us to digest and remember them!) than a literal event. In reality, of course, there was a long, slow progress over centuries in which science developed — or continued to develop, I should say. Some of the big influences had nothing to with science or philosophy! ... such as building a civilisation in which enough men had enough leisure to go around doing scientific experiments instead of growing food to put on the table or staving off barbarian hordes. And there is of course the Judeo-Christian mindset in which modern science flourished — with an early start among the Arabs (back when Aristotle was popular), and then in the West (also influenced by Aristotle). Roger Bacon was a contemporary of Thomas Aquinas, after all! And of course better understanding of how to apply mathematics to science (such as linking Cartesian co-ordinates to geometry) was vastly important in letting scientists work more effectively. So regardless of whether early modern scientists thought they were overturning Aristotelian fundamentals — and let's face it, lots of them understood Aristotle no better than many present-day scientists — the scientific method actually supports Aristotelian metaphysics. I think it's not too much of an oversimplification to say that the big deal about the scientific method was refining the methodology, i.e. the way of applying these well-known metaphysical principles in "assembly-line" fashion, by making an old thing more efficient rather than making a new thing.

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  52. Scott: So far I've been focusing mainly on formal causes, but I don't think there's any way to cash out "behaving in accordance with these equations" without invoking final causes.

    Oops, I actually meant "formal causes" there... though of course final causes aren't far behind. If you have anything that is described as actual "behaviour" or "tendency" or "nature" or "action", etc., then — again resorting to my simplified cry of "it's the definition" — we just are talking about finality.

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  53. Urban Jean: I addressed you in a thread in a different thread that raised some related points — see my Sept. 14 posts under The Return of Final Causality.

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  54. 59 frmousl@Mr. Green:

    "Oops, I actually meant 'formal causes' there..."

    Heh. Well, I still agree with both versions.

    I've never seen a proposed "Gettier counterexample" involving mistyping or using a word one didn't intend, but that's a pretty good one: Scott had the justified true belief that Mr. Green was right, but his belief was based on a mistake as to what Mr. Green intended to say—and what Mr. Green appeared to have intended to say also happened to be right.

    Anyway, good, I'm glad you think the discussion is on solid ground so far. Let's see what else urban jean has to say about it; it's possible that we've made some headway in addressing his question(s).

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  55. Thanks for the replies, guys. I can buy the distinction between an abstraction like a house design and its concrete representation as ink on paper. Likewise between equations as constraints on mathematical structures and their symbolic representation. I can't seem to be able to do without abstractions. What I'm a bit uncomfortable with, however, and this carries over into a general criticism of Aristotelian and Scholastic thinking, is the ease with which we slip into hypostatising language. Scott asks,

    is it fair to say . . . that the purpose of the experiments and observations is to test whether or not a certain formal cause is present (by finding out whether its expected effects occur)?

    If formal causes are abstractions, and abstractions lie outside the causal nexus, in what sense can they have effects?

    This ties in with what Mr. G says in the later comment thread, which has given me much food for thought. I hope to respond to that later.

    Incidentally, over here 'Jean' is a girl's name.

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  56. Incidentally, over here 'Jean' is a girl's name.

    I suspected all along that you're not living in France.

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  57. @urban jean:

    "If formal causes are abstractions, and abstractions lie outside the causal nexus, in what sense can they have effects?"

    Well, I could pick nits about those ifs, but for the present point what's most important is this. Had I been speaking more precisely, I'd have referred to (a) the logical consequences entailed by the proposed formal cause, and (b) the effects of the substance that had that proposed formal cause. In the present context, either will do for testing the hypothesis that the formal cause is present.

    "Incidentally, over here 'Jean' is a girl's name."

    Heh. Sorry about the "his," but I meant it in the gender-neutral sense. I had actually wondered which way you intended "jean" to be pronounced (and of course it might not have been your real name anyway).

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  58. While not the most important thing re the present point, it might help make the present point more palatable to urban jean were it made known that a formal cause is not an abstraction.

    We may indeed consider it as if it were -- in which case it would exist only in the intellect. But how we consider it and what it is in itself are two different things. And what it is in itself is not a something separate from the relevant thing, but a something 'in' that relevant thing.

    Or so I surmise from the following found in Dr. Feser's TLS:

    o The view that universals, numbers, and/or propositions exist objectively, apart from the human mind and distinct from any material or physical features of the world is called realism, and Plato's Theory of Forms is perhaps the most famous version of the view (though not the only one, as we will see). p 41

    o Like Plato, Aristotle is a realist in the sense we've been discussing. But he thinks Plato needs to be brought down to earth a bit. For Aristotle, universals or forms are real, and they are not reducible to anything either material or mental. Still, he thinks it is an error to regard them as objects existing in a "third realm" of their own. Rather, considered as they are in themselves they exist only "in" the things they are are forms of; and considered as abstractions from these things, they exist only in the intellect. p 50

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  59. @Glenn:

    "While not the most important thing re the present point, it might help make the present point more palatable to urban jean were it made known that a formal cause is not an abstraction."

    That's one of the nits I considered picking. In retrospect I think you're right that it's helpful to bring it out explicitly.

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  60. I kinda figured it was. And I know how tiresome and irksome it can be having to frequently make pit stops in order to address nits; I had some time and energy to spare, so figured I'd pick it up and dust it off. :-)

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  61. This is in response to Mr. Green's very helpful comments starting here.
    First of all let me say that I have never considered matter, form, the four causes, etc, as hypotheticals to be used to explain things. I had seen them more as the basic elements of a certain 'style' of thought. Mr G's account of the four causes as definitions rather reinforces this. An ordinary statement like 'the ball is spherical' becomes something like 'sphericity is part of the formal cause of the ball', paraphrasing Ed's example in Aquinas, p16. Likewise we get 'possibly, providing amusement for a child is a final cause of the ball', and, since the ball is also bouncy, 'bounciness is part of the formal cause of the ball'. Statements like this are supposedly 'explanatory' of the ball. Ed says 'the four causes are completely general, applying throughout the natural world and not just to human artifacts'. My difficulty with this scheme is that I can't see how to explain that when the ball is bounced very hard against a wall its shape temporarily changes from spherical to near hemi-spherical. We have sphericity and bounciness locked up inside a box labelled 'formal cause' and no account of how the two interact when so cohabiting. Where, if you like, is the 'algebra of forms' which would give us an explanation of this?

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  62. urban jean,

    In the interest of conveying a general idea (as opposed to, say, dumbing things down, or endeavoring to be 100% accurate and correct (though legitimate critiques of whatever stripe are welcomed from those already well-acquainted with the subject)):

    1. In journalism, there are six questions which fully and completely account for a story:

    1) Who?
    2) What?
    3) Where?
    4) When?
    5) Why?
    6) How?

    When it is said that there six questions which fully or completely account for a story, what is meant is that any detail of the story (which has been or may be brought to light) comes under the purview of one or more of the six questions.

    These questions are umbrella questions, and all things having to do with the story are such as to fit under the umbrella questions.

    2. In Aristotelian metaphysics, there are four questions which fully and completely account for a (material or substantial) 'it':

    a) What is it made out of?
    b) What is its, e.g., form, structure or pattern?
    c) How did it come into being?
    d) What is its end, goal or purpose?

    (Note that each of these four questions has a more technical version: a) What is its material cause? (That is, "What is it made out of?"); b) What is its formal cause? (That is, "What is its, e.g., form, structure or pattern?"); c) What is its efficient cause? (That is, "How did it come into being?"); and, d) What is its final cause? (That is, "What is its end, goal or purpose?"))

    When it is said that there four questions which fully and completely account for a (material or substantial) 'it', what is meant is that any detail of the 'it' (which has been or may be brought to light) comes under the purview of one or more of the four questions.

    These questions are umbrella questions, and all things having to do with the 'it' are such as to fit under the umbrella questions.

    3. To get some very general ideas regarding the 'algebra' of forms, see, e.g., Physics and Acoustics of Baseball and Softball Bats (where the deformation of a baseball, i.e, its temporary and minor loss of 'sphericity', may be read about under the question, "What Happens when Ball Meets Bat?").

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  63. (Some errata: 1) the journalism questions s/b lettered; 2) "the 'algebra' of forms" s/b "the so-called 'algebra' of forms"; and, 3) "loss of 'sphericity'" s/b "loss of full 'sphericity'".)

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  64. That's an intriguing reply, Glenn. The ball is bouncy looks to be an answer under question heading (b). Does the question Why is the ball bouncy? fit into this scheme?

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  65. @urban jean:

    "Does the question Why is the ball bouncy? fit into this scheme?"

    Of course, and quite easily. It's bouncy because it's made out of rubber, and so it has a certain microstructure that gives it suitable values of physical properties like deformation resistance and springback, given to it deliberately by someone who wanted it to serve as a toy.

    There. We've just identified the ball's material, formal, efficient, and final causes without ever calling them that.

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  66. And of course if you want to know more about those physical properties and their relationship to the microstructure of rubber and so forth, the thing to do is to look more deeply into the physics (starting perhaps with the link Glenn provided). When you do, you'll be exploring the ball's formal cause in more detail whether you use that phrase or not.

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  67. Hi Scott. I'm a bit confused. I can see two possibilities.

    (a) To answer the question Why is the ball bouncy? metaphysics 'hands off' as it were to physics. This leaves metaphysics as a kind of elaboration of physics, or a showing how it applies to everyday objects, or just a way of organising a story, as Glenn's journalism metaphor suggests. Call this the superficial view. I don't think you will agree with this. Alternatively,

    (b) what you offer above is a kind of analysis of the form bounciness or possibly of the matter rubber. Call this the fundamental view. But this analysis doesn't seem to 'fit' with the four-fold picture of causation in the sense that it's not in the terms contained in that picture---matter, form, substance, etc, so that can't be right either.

    I'm at a loss to see just what role the metaphysical account plays. Can you help?

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  68. @urban jean:

    Getting back to the fray, hopefully to shed some light.

    "To answer the question Why is the ball bouncy? metaphysics 'hands off' as it were to physics."

    There are a couple of different ways to interpret your question, but the natural answer is "of course it does!" To answer "why the ball is bouncy?" is to ask why objects with a *specific* form (e.g. rubber ball) have certain properties, or why certain specific universals are co-instantiated in the same form -- and the answer can only be discerned by a combination of observation and reasoning. Let me go back to a question you made earlier.

    "My difficulty with this scheme is that I can't see how to explain that when the ball is bounced very hard against a wall its shape temporarily changes from spherical to near hemi-spherical. We have sphericity and bounciness locked up inside a box labelled 'formal cause' and no account of how the two interact when so cohabiting. Where, if you like, is the 'algebra of forms' which would give us an explanation of this?"

    It seems to me, once again, you are going about it the wrong way and asking the wrong questions. Let me start by the end: What does it mean for an "algebra of forms" to exist? The only way I can understand it is to say that forms *themselves* have a form in virtue of which they stand in relations that could be "encoded" in a would-be "algebra of forms". But forms are not substances; they are not composites of form and matter; they do not exist apart of the beings in which they inhere (except in the mind of God as the archetypes of creation). So what could this mean?

    Going back to your example of the ball. What does it mean to ask how sphericity and bounciness "cohabit" or "interact"? Each substance has only *one* substantial form (*) from which flow certain essential properties, and which can be the bearer of certain accidents, e.g. ball is potentially certain (range of) colors, actually red. But the relation between substantial form, properties and accidents is not one of "interaction" or even "cohabitation".

    The other implied questions seem to be questions of what actually happens in our universe, and thus are answered as pretty much all such questions are answered: some combination of observation and reasoning. The ball changes shape because of its "deformable" atomic structure under sufficient stress. Now, we can take this several ways: either the ball has gone out of existence and a hemi-ball came into existence, and in such case the same with the form (this option seems just wrong though, for one, because it seems to mess up identity conditions), or we did not have a ball to begin with but a "quasi-ball". Or possibly some other option. The example is merely illustrative and the exact details depend, as one would expect, on the exact details of what we are dealing with.

    By the way, in response to another comment ("First of all let me say that I have never considered matter, form, the four causes, etc, as hypotheticals to be used to explain things. I had seen them more as the basic elements of a certain 'style' of thought. Mr G's account of the four causes as definitions rather reinforces this."), allow me to note that form plays a seemingly dual role: definitional and explanational, and that the two are *intrinsically* related. What probably is confusing you is that definition is used in the sense of *real* definition, not in the (usual) sense of nominal definition.

    (*) This was a subject hotly debated in the Middle ages; I am taking Aquinas' stand that argued for the answer: each substance has only one substantial form.

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  69. @urban jean:

    grodrigues has already hit the main points, so I'll just address this:

    "But this analysis doesn't seem to 'fit' with the four-fold picture of causation in the sense that it's not in the terms contained in that picture---matter, form, substance, etc, so that can't be right either."

    Of course it fits with the four-fold account of causation; that was the whole point of my reply. The rubber is the material cause of the ball, the shape and microstructure and so forth are its formal cause, the maker of the ball is its efficient cause, and being a bouncy toy is its final cause. The ball is an artifact rather than a natural substance, but it clearly has both form and matter. What doesn't "fit" here?

    I'm also not seeing that your (a) and (b) are genuinely in conflict. What has Glenn said that you think I might disagree with?

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  70. @urban jean:

    "I'm at a loss to see just what role the metaphysical account plays."

    It tells us what an explanation looks like. It therefore also helps us understand/interpret the relevant physics so that the latter is explanatory rather than merely descriptive. It doesn't replace the physics, as you seem to be expecting it to do.

    (It also refutes the argument that modern science has somehow done away with formal and final causes and that certain arguments for theism have therefore been discredited. In that sense it also helps to preserve theism itself as an overall explanation—for why there's anything at all, rather than why there's this or that specific thing.)

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  71. Apologies, guys, I have been distracted elsewhere trying to understand Mr Crude. Thank you for your lengthy and helpful contributions. I hope to get back to you over the weekend. In the meantime here is an outline of my project. I am trying to figure out Aristotelianism, or perhaps I should say Thomism, by considering it to start with as an axiomatic system over undefined terms. Think Hilbert on geometry or just abstract groups. I read Kenny's Aquinas on Mind a while back and more recently Ed Feser's Aquinas, but I find it next to impossible to think in the Thomistic language. So I thought I'd try to piece together the vocabulary and grammar---what are the kinds of entity being talked about, what relations can be said to hold between them, and so on. Maybe when I've got the overall shape I can try out various interpretations into my usual concepts.

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  72. @urban jean:

    "I am trying to figure out Aristotelianism, or perhaps I should say Thomism, by considering it to start with as an axiomatic system over undefined terms."

    Since Thomism does define its terms, this approach seems unlikely to succeed. But I see this thread has become old enough that Ed has to moderate the comments, so this will be my last post in it.

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  73. If your floor guy wanted an unfurnished room he should have said so. Generally speaking, an empty room is like an empty mind: the furniture is there, but no one is using it.

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